Like I said, others would disagree with me, but that is how I feel. [begin edit] And, no I haven't been to BCS since graduation. I just haven't had the chance, maybe if I went out and say the off campus bonfire being built it would change my mind. [end edit]

AgDog
Hell Bent Canine
All or None
FIDO

[This message has been edited by AgDog02 (edited 3/18/2005 11:35a).]

AgDog - you are right, it isn't the same. And comparing to the fires I was part of, it will never be as good (just being selfish). But they are out there busting their butts, and the heart is there. That is the important part.

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One more thing, I don't know how to say this without it sounding extremely cruel and insensitive to those hurt and killed, but if what you built was the best there ever was, I doubt it would hav support theme fell.

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It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Student Bonfire and wish I could do more to financially support them (that's what they need from Former Students), so you may want to take my next comments with a grain of salt.

Coker, I think you're on the money here, and that's the thing that I'm most proud of SB for. They've found a way to minimize risk by cutting out a lot of the "extracurricular" activities that happened at Bonfire site, and they've taken heat from some of the older people for doing it. The net result over three years is the injury list that should be expected (ant bites, cuts, blisters) instead of some of the ones that have happened PRE-COLLAPSE (Torn ACLs, etc.).

Now, the other point to make here is that none of us can analyze AgDog's experience. He's referencing the '98 fire, which obviously did not collapse and to him WAS the greatest thing ever.

The great part about that is that these freshmen know nothing other than what they're told about what Bonfire *used* to be. They know of the collapse, they know that there are things that aren't done any more for safety reasons, but they don't have a magic litmus test to apply to what's going on out there and say "it sucks."

This is THEIR Bonfire experience, and to some who I got to visit with on Burn Night last year, it's the greatest thing that THEY have ever done. This is sorta misusing a cliche, but how some of us have seen "way it was" and "the way it is," the young people don't know what they're missing. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing, but either way this experience is THEIRS, and I see a lot of the same things that I saw and enjoyed about Bonfire pre 11.18.99 in these people.

Bonfire was/is a special, special, special thing - and I'm happy that the tradition is continuing SAFELY (and I hope they work HARDER to keep it that way).

Sorry about the rant.

My Bonfire was the best ever.

Get rid of the Grey pot, its not a big deal for bcs, it would be very respectful and I am SB would appreciate it.

If you are in bcs you should be come work on Bonfire even though its off campus, you'll learn a lot it will help bcs.

from what I understand some BCS members are members of SB as well. I don't know who they are though. The whole grey pot thing is beyond my control in BCS. You'd have to talk to our leaders.

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FYI - Climbers vanished and became Red with the 94 fire.

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Damn, I hate making mistakes. You're right. My pot-brother Mike was Yellow '92, JrC '93 and then SrC '94 at which point they decided to absorb Climbers into the Reds.

I can't remember though (and my wife and I disagree on this) whether or not Mike was a Climber or a Red. I want to say that Mike was a Red, but Kari says he was the last Climber and the next year Dave was the first Red with a Grey line. Either way, it was about that time-frame.

What were climbers?

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What were climbers?

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They climbed stuff...


They also played with swings and handle stations and cross ties and probably more stuff that I don't remember.

Kip - Dave started off with as a climber, and was passed a red pot at the end of push his junior year. Side note - some girl was actually crazy enough to marry him a few weeks ago.

Exactly, JL, they climbed stuff.

They are the ones who hung ropes (and were responsible for stretching the support ropes prior to center pole being raised), hung swings, hung lights and speakers on perimiter poles, attached cross ties, fixed tag lines when they got tangled or when the stupid truck driver ignored the scarecrow and kept backing up the truck even after being told to stop; thus getting the hook caught in the pulley up on the cap, etc. I believe they were also called surge-butts because they handled some of the electrical stuff related to Bonfire (lights, speakers, etc.)

Originally they were somewhere in between the Reds and the Browns. They were less administrative and more tool-oriented than the Reds but more administrative and less tool-oriented then the Browns.

Dave and I started off on the wrong foot back when he was a provo-fish. I suppose that has colored my opinion of him ever since. Although, 11 years later I guess I should forget about it. I'm sure he has.

So . . . congrats to Dave.

AgDog, please do come out. Many have come as skeptical as you and left as enthusiastic as me. I am willing to bet that a couple of Jr Greys this year would humor you...

FYI, your outfit earned centerpole in '03.

With regards to what NSG had to say, I have to agree about going out to actually see Bonfire to be convinced for yourself.

Last fall, an old buddy of mine (who happened to be a red and was one of the pople injured in '99) decided to take a trip out to cutsite on a Saturday morning. He also happens to be married to the sister of one of the 12.

He always has been extremely anti-off campus bonfires. Said some pretty harsh things over the years with regards to the events and those that choose to participate in them. But we went out there, partly to satiate our curiosity and partly out of a feeling of nostalgia.

We ended up spending 4 or so hours at cut that morning and then out at stack for a long period of time that evening. He left stack site pledging to do whatever he could to help out the grey pots. Being out there and seeing people doing what they were doing caused him to have a pretty severe change of heart.

Like NSG said, if you are so virulently opposed, then go out there and confirm your suspicions about what a bunch of worthless pieces of **** they are and how they are disrespecting the memory of the 12 and of Bonfires of old.

Or maybe you'll see that maybe it isn't such a terrible thing.

For me personally, when we first were out at cutsite, I wasn't that impressed with what was going on. I made lots of comparrison to MY bonfire and the percieved defincies that I saw. Slowly my opinon was changed.

That night I spent 3 or 4 hours in a swing wiring logs. The experience was exactly the same as it was when I was 19. Except for maybe the fact that being in a swing was a little harder on the knees than it was back then. And climbing up a log is a lot harder when you're draggin my big fat belly and ass along with it.

So give it a shot before you condemn them all to Aggie hell.

Whoop, Chip, and say Howdy to Bruce for me (I assume that is the Red you are referring to).

I hope to see everyone again at cut next fall, including those who don't understand all of it quite yet.

When I get out of Colorado I'll come out and see it. I wish we could get it back on campus, but these days it's hard to justify such an event to the big wigs and fat cats who could care less about the Spirit and tradition. Until then build the hell guys.

AgDog
Hell Bent Canine
All or None
FIDO

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would like to make a formal request to the bCS. Please change the "grey" pot name and color that you are using to a "Maroon" pot or a "White" pot.

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So, you want a favor from BCS. You want them to change the name of one of their leadership positions. No, that doesn't sound too unreasonable except in the way you continue to present the request. Just from reading these boards I see so much anti-BCS propaganda from you and others. Y'all aren't exactly doing much to endear yourselves to them. Why should they feel at all inclined to do a favor for you? Even when you ask, you use what I can only take is a derogatory way of abbreviating their group's name: bCS.

I have been interested in coming out and participating with SB for a while now but the constant negativity I see has kept me away. I see it often written, "If you would just come to cut and see what we are all about you would change your opinion." Why not represent yourselves well in the public forums you frequent so often as well as at your activities?

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I have been interested in coming out and participating with SB for a while now but the constant negativity I see has kept me away.

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BS. Yeah, There has been some arguments here, but this is what happens on every message board on the entire internet regardless of topic.

If you're truly interested in coming out then you'll do it and not let what a handful of people say on a message board determine your actions.

How about this... Will BCS pretty please change their arbitrary pot color to something other than Grey?

The "b" is for the explicit intent of not confusing Student Bonfire with the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group. Any other interpretation is misguided. I apologize for leading anyone towards the wrong idea about my post or the way I wrote it. As Jim so elequently stated, will you pretty pretty please change your pot color?

For the most part, the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group and Student Bonfire have stayed out of eachothers' way. There were a few instances in '02 and '03 that I remember when the two groups were both around the Rudder Fountain area wearing pots and nobody could tell the difference. There was another issue with the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group standing guard at a smaller non-student-built off campus bonfire (yes, little "b" ), but that is all I recall up until now.

Over the years, Student Bonfire has tried to avoid political controversy as much as possible. SB has done it's best to let the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group do it's thing while a Bonfire is being built off campus. From what I have seen, the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group has done a lot of talking and political moving while Student Bonfire has continued to work hard and build Bonfires since '02.

I have personally written a letter to the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group's leaders and "grey pot" about the issue of the SB Grey pot, without a single reply. I wish that the confusion would not perpetuate between the groups, but it seems that the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group is not willing to communicate with me on the issue, let alone change the name of one of their officers.

On a side note, there is no "hate" between the groups. Compairing the two is like compairing apples and accordians. Only in situations where the two may be mistaken for one another do discussions like this arise.

Don't stereotype SB people based on one interaction that should have remained between the two groups. It is unfortuneate that it had to happen this way, but the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group was not responding via e-mail or any other method.

If you would realy like to get a taste of each group, go to a meeting of the University sponsored on-campus bring-bonfire-back group and then go out to a Cut weekend with Student Bonfire. I'll let you use my axe, pot, tools, tape, boots, whatever if you need to. Tell the folks out there what you are doing and any of them will be happy to teach you about the group, take you out into the woods, educate you on the use of some of the tools, and you can earn a few friends while working on Bonfire.

[This message has been edited by opie03 (edited 3/25/2005 10:23a).]

Opie03

If you live in the Bryan/College Station area, if they haven't responded to your e-mails well I guess you need to go meet them in person so then they will have to respond to you.

It won't look good on their part if they ignore you. People are pschyologically(sp) different from e-mails to "in person" conversations.

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There has been some arguments here, but this is what happens on every message board on the entire internet regardless of topic.

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I am well aquainted with the culture surrounding internet message boards. I'm not talking about arguements because arguements don't bother me. I'm talking about what I see as unprovoked hostility and disrespect towards those who have different opinions about Bonfire. Not just towards the other group either, but anyone who comes here with thoughts. Perhaps I don't have a clear understanding of the situation and these attitudes are, in fact, provoked. Let me know.

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BS.

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So I'm lying? Perhaps I am unable to understand my own emotions. Perhaps my own thought processes, which are obviously a mystery to myself, are more clear to you. So please, enlighten me. I appologize. I tried not to be hostile with my earlier comments as I am trying now.

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If you're truly interested in coming out then you'll do it and not let what a handful of people say on a message board determine your actions.

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I'm not letting their actions determine mine. I am, however, allowing their actions INFORM mine. The stack collapses and thus thousands of us are stripped of a chance to work on Bonfire. A group turns up and says that they are Bonfire reincarnate. I do some research and turn up here and lurk to see what is happening with it. I see both the good and the bad. I was responding to a specific instance with a general observation.

Anyway, I'll back off this. It just seemed so absurd.


[This message has been edited by AlterE (edited 3/25/2005 12:22p).]

We have not claimed to be Bonfire Re-incanate..

what we are is a group that keeps the knowledge of building Bonfire alive through the continuation of Cut, Stack and Burn.

In the time between the collapse and our first stack in '03, there was an immeasurable amount of knowledge lost.. We had to (mostly) rely on graduated Aggies' foggy memories of how to do things. It took alot of caution and common sense to make stack happen and happen safely.

I dont know how Bonfire construction knowledge could have survived even if the University allows it back on campus starting today. it has been 5 1/2 years since the collapse and I only know a handful of people still in school that actually worked on the pre-collapse Bonfire. Of those that did work on that Bonfire, most of them were fish that had no knowledge of how stack was actually constructed.

Untill Bonfire is returned to campus and is student-built and student-run.. Student Bonfire will continue to keep the knowledge alive of how to organize and build a Bonfire safely.

Just for everyone's understanding, there was a Bonfire in '02 that was built by Student Bonfire (which was Unity Project at the time). It was not "stack" shaped, but a pile of logs with a centerpole and an outhouse. The now Stack design was engineered that year and used in '03.

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I have been interested in coming out and participating with SB for a while now but the constant negativity I see has kept me away. I see it often written, "If you would just come to cut and see what we are all about you would change your opinion." Why not represent yourselves well in the public forums you frequent so often as well as at your activities?

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1) Constant negativity? Negativity towards what? I think we all believe in Bonfire. Just some of us believe in actions, moreso than words. I think we're all pretty positive about that. I for one am not being negative towards BCS. I am just frustrated for asking for an answer and never getting one (about what BCS actually DOES... as I have said before, I've asked so I can understand and respect you for your efforts, whatever they might be).

2) Public forums always have bickering. People write things to start arguments and people often misinterpret things that are said. That statement (come out and see for yourself) is completely taken out of context.

The point of the matter is that Bonfire can't be taught in a book. Not the real meaning and lessons it teaches. I for one have been working on something that requires me to try to convey what Bonfire is about and it is dang near impossible to put the impact that it has on someone into words. Seeing is beleiving when Bonfire is concerned. That is why that statement is said.

It's part of having an informed opinion. (hence why I've asked many of the members of BCS about what ya'll do and no one has given me an answer... quite simple, in fact. You ask me what we do and I tell you we build the hell outta Bonfire)

So, once again, could someone please elucidate what BCS does other than sell t-shirts and have meetings to educate people about certain aspects of Bonfire? Yes, I know you want Bonfire to be back on campus. We do too (provided it's not commercialized)... but what are you doing to get it back there?

and opie... yes, and it was purty

ALterE I'm not calling you a liar. If you're interested in coming out then don't let the bickering here between a few individuals from seperate organizations determine whether you'd want to be involved in either. They are arguing over the color of a pot.

It's like saying you don't want to go to Aggie Football games because people on the Football forum argue over whether the water coolers should be orange or not. (ok, thats a loose simile but you get the idea.)

This is getting so off point. Lets go back to the basics, each group has a purpose and each purpose is to see Bonfire burn, call a truce. When me and my Hart buddies built our way-off campus Bonfire in '01 and '02, we did it to continue the tradition so that we could bthotu. While doing it, we had Redpots and Brownpots. If anyone doesn't know Precious, Cornbread, and Girth; and the amount of time they put into it; then so be it. If the BCS guys want to have a greypot, consider it a token of respect. But what would really be nice is if they all come out in '05 and take a look at it and see what it is. By the way, the last two years, Stack burned and burned and never fell.



Look at this picture of 2003 Aggie Bonfire. You can see that all four Windle Sticks are still standing and the Centerpole is still standing. This was well after midnight. Think about that next time you call Gates requesting that Bonfire return to campus and tell him to give me a call if he has any questions.





Also, enjoy the pics.

[This message has been edited by WillD (edited 3/26/2005 2:27a).]

Bonfire Chief Engineer

In 1990 I took a litle trip to Duncan field with some pliers on my hip...

Yay for willd

Will D, you are my hero!

Thank you for those replies northsidegreek06 and Y02. I can understand and respect those thoughts and problems. I don't know how to solve yours northside (apart from the obvious getting a response) and I will see about resolving mine.

While I think my point still stands, that when one has access to a certain cross-section of a group those people end up representing that group, (and I think if you look through the boards objectively you CAN in fact see my point) I can fully appreciate that the group as a whole may be completely different.

WillD's statements also seem reasonable from my standpoint.



[This message has been edited by AlterE (edited 3/26/2005 5:41a).]

AE, to be completely honest, I got a negative first impression of the group as well. It took a lot of convincing for me to give these people a chance. Yeah, me give them a chance instead of the other way around... that's how arrogant and self-involved I was. I had seen '03 burn and decided to go out to cut. I gotta admit that I was looking for the worst. But at the end of the day, all I had to show for those expectations was exhaustion and a handful of new friends. So I went back the next day, and then the next weekend... and before ya know it, I couldn't stay away.

I'm not excusing anything you see here or disagreeing with your points. Going out to cut and stack won't disprove all of your preconceptions, it doesn't change your character, and it won't fulfill your every dream (unless your dreams are to cut down a tree and carry it on your shoulder). At the end of the day, I'm still as arrogant and self-involved as I was to start with. But my perception and understanding of the project and the people involved are a lot different. The scores of new friends I've made are both an incentive and reward for participation.

If you're an off campus student and you decide to come out, you'll be with Hogs. I'd be happy to answer your questions, and you're welcome to come to our get togethers.

[This message has been edited by brown eyes (edited 3/26/2005 1:58p).]

Cokeman is spot on.

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Going out to cut and stack won't disprove all of your preconceptions, it doesn't change your character, and it won't fulfill your every dream

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liar

[This message has been edited by brown eyes (edited 3/29/2005 9:40a).]

And btw, when are you coming back?

I've been meaning to get ahold of you. I should really email you or something.

Edit: Nevermind, found the address.

[This message has been edited by brown eyes (edited 3/29/2005 10:47a).]

Check your PMs.