I will probably get some flack about this posting, but I hope that the people in the situation see it and look from a different perspective at a situation. It is also a long story, sorry.

So this past weekend I was in College Station for my annual trek for a wedding for a friend. We decided to hit the chicken afterwards the wedding and of course I got a little tipsy. But in there was a group of guys and one guy with a red aggie bonfire hat. I looked at it several times and I thought that the crossed axe handles looked a bit small. So I finally went up to the guy and said what I thought and that I thought that before they were bigger.

So here is the part I want to stress. Instead of being tactful these guys were rude, they asked me when and I said pre-99 because that was when I was around. And then they were kind of making fun of me and instead of the guy just saying "oh, I'm Joe (whatever name) class of 'XX (whatever year)" which would have made me realize my error, they became what I felt like was aggressive and rude. Or another simple way to be tactful is to say that hey, maybe you are thinking of something else. Which when I explained to my friends they did and they are probably right.

I had a lot of respect for the newer bonfire guys until this. I thought it was impressive what they were able to put together no matter how I fell about there still being a bonfire. But most of that evaporated when I had to yell at one of the guys to get out of my face. He obviously was young and maybe I took it wrong, but it was not a comfortable situation.

Anyways, part of my point is, that no one should be treated that way from any group. It seems to me that they are already on the firing line and they didn't know who I was. I could have been somebody with tons of money who had they been polite I would have donated some. Sadly that is not the case, I am just someone who was around for '97, '98, and '99 and misses it and my friends that I lost. I can't believe it has been as long as it has and still these feelings occur.

I will say that maybe I approached the situation wrong, but that group could have handled it in a much more polite way.

Depending on what night you were at the Chicken...

I have firsthand knowledge that NONE of the 1st generation redpots were there (the JRP's wouldn't have their caps yet)...

...and I guess it depends on what time you were there because none of the greys were there while I was.

Sadly, there is a small bubble in being able to identify everyone correctly by the caps...and a solution for that is proving to be difficult...suggestions on how to enforce it would be nice.

It has been discussed here many times, but the leadership has not always been perfect since 2002. Some years have been better than others. I just wish the "others" knew how much damage they are capable of.

EDIT to eliminate []1 fodder:
This post came from Blythesville (sp?), Arkansas. I was in CS over the weekend to take my belongings back home before moving up to the midwest for a new harvest.

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 7/17/2007 12:34a).]

Solution would be to put the year on the hat. Or when someone comes up like that instead of taking a superiority stance that comes across as rude, find out why the person is talking to them in the first place.

It is just disappointing to me after everything that happened in '99 to go and then have these people be jerks to me. I can guarantee that none of them have experienced the things I have in relation to '99. But instead of finding out that I've done that and was maybe just wanting to a make a connection to the new ones, they were rude.

PS I am not sure what you mean by 1st gen redpot guess I am behind on the lingo, most of the time I don't pay a lot of attention.

(removed something that was too personal.)

[This message has been edited by mcjd01 (edited 7/17/2007 1:31a).]

Are you surprised? Unfortunately, I'm not. Based on some of the stories I've heard and the first hand experiences I've had, this doesn't surprise me in the least.

I even had one to-be red at my house one evening at a party and some girl did something similar to what you did and poked a little fun at a guy from Crocker. The guy got aggressive with her, and then when another guy got up to put some distance between the two, the red punched the guy in the face.

So again, don't be surprised.

Oh, and Rebel, I didn't for a second think it was you. You play the internet tough guy role real well, but I'm positive that face to face you're a bit of a...well, just not that much of a tough guy.

But that's good that you're anticipating my responses.

I haven't seen red Aggie Bonfire hats since the 90's, must have been an old guy. I agree, he shouldn't have been an ass, but he was probably just messing with you.

[This message has been edited by deanwood (edited 7/17/2007 10:08a).]

He wasn't trying to keep you from thinking it was him, []1. He was trying to head off a comment from you questioning how he could be in the Chicken if he works 140 hours/week.

Scott Coker '92

[This message has been edited by COKEMAN (edited 7/17/2007 11:10a).]

There is no way the guy with the hat could have been older than 30 or so. And the sad thing is, it really wasn't him that did it, it was the group, and then especially a younger guy who got in my face.

1. Leaders of Student Bonfire have red hats.

2. The Student Bonfire guys have worn their various colored hats for a number of years (brown, yellow, red, etc.).

3. The individuals that you encountered could have been participants from 1909-1999 or 2004-2006; most of whom do not currently represent Student Bonfire.

4. Student Bonfire has implemented a policy regarding acting as a representitive of SB and the current leadership is bound by it. If it was violated, it will be addressed and dealt with.

5. If a former leader from pre-99 Bonfire upset anyone in their actions, there isn't anything SB can do about it. Sorry.

6. If a former leader from the off-campus Bonfire upset you with harsh words or actions, they shouldn't have; but there isn't much SB can do about it either. It's unfortuneate that this could have happened, but every former leader of SB isn't held to the same standards as the current leadership.

7. As said before, if a current leader of SB verbally assaulted you while representing SB, it will be brought up and dealt with.

EDIT: The thoughts and expressions voiced in this message are my own and only reflect my understanding of SB and it's leadership. I am not acting on behalf of SB or any of it's leaders with this post. Questions regarding SB's official stance on the actions of leadership and representitives can be sent to info@studentbonfire.com

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

[This message has been edited by opie03 (edited 7/17/2007 1:18p).]

I keep getting interrupted trying to type this, maybe I can finish this time...

mcjd01, you're not going to catch any flack from anyone in a current upper leadership position. Actions such as this need to be identified so they can be dealt with. What other TexAgs members do as far as "flack" is up to them; free will and all.

I have no idea who this could be from your description. The current group of Redpots are well versed in public image and know full well, that their actions are seen as the actions of ASB and what the ramifications of such actions are. So, I find it hard to imagine one of them doing it. Having said that, there are only a handful of those new red hats around so that narrows the field some. If it is a former Red, old or new, there isn't much ASB can do. Although, I would like to think that former leaders would understand that even though they are gone, when they wear identifying insignia, they can affect Bonfire's image. Sadly that is not always the case and there are always a few that let their egos take control of their brain and things like this happen. That's not only inherent to Bonfire, BTW, but it does happen here no doubt.

On behalf of ASB, I apologize for how you were treated and hope you give the new guys a chance to show themselves in a better light.

[]1, I have heard all about your encounter at your party, and yes, it is unfortunate, but please quit condemning Bonfire for it. I understand your points, but the person that was involved never made it to Redpot, so please, at least quit referring to him as such. He was removed by his fellow JRPs for that and other factors. They should get some credit for that. He was chosen by the then SRPs based on characteristics viewed as favorable for someone in that position. Once it was shown that those qualities really weren't there, he was removed.

Scott Coker '92

Opie, by what means would SB be able to bring it up and deal with the person being spoken of here?

I understand that due to recent events (SB behavior in public arenas, SB relation to media -the Batt) the organization has found it necessary to educate its members in ways to act decent when the time calls for it. Unfortunately, nobody can babysit everybody. This goes back to what I hold to be one of ASB's biggest hangups and that's the culture which it promotes, be it actively or not so actively.

I know for a fact nobody is told to "defend the integrity of bonfire by becoming aggressive or yelling at the ignorant," but unfortunately, that's what happens.

To clarify one thing, the person who was the rudest to me, pulled apart from the group, there is no way he was over 30, and the way I see it, the Jrs and Srs from '99 would know me and I them, and anyone else by now would be over 30.

Ignorant of what is currently happening is the category that I would probably fall in, but I was very very involved, so ignorant of things from them would not be ignorant of.

My point is, that the group was arrogant and then rude to me without knowing who I was. Most of the group were young and they should be defending their actions or maybe explaining why they did what they did and not someone else.

If the new stuff wants to survive, then that arrogant attitude needs to change. Because when people become too arrogant that is when problems and accidents start. That is just my opinion on life.

This may turn into he said/she said, but I have received a phone call or two to fill me in on what went down. From the information I received, it was all old Redpots (i.e. Pre 99), the initial "reaction" was an attempt at humor that missed it's mark and the person that pulled you aside was a Red from 1988. (We all know Sr Reds don't do much work, that's how they keep that boyish look that fooled you )

I am not trying to dispute you or invalidate your concerns and I am still am sorry for how you were treated, but don't lump this into a condemnation of "the new stuff." Given the position you held when you were here, you should know first hand how dead Redpots from that era are prone to behave, especially when they are lumped together in the Chicken.

Regardless, I appreciate you bringing this up. It will serve as an example on how public image can be perceived by different people.

Scott Coker '92

I think the buck should stop trying to be passed around on this. If he perceived it to be new guys, which he has said this is who he believed it to be at least twice now, then somebody should step up and take responsibility for it and sincerely apologize. For the most part, all that keeps being said is "I'm sorry, but..."

No, I'm sorry it happened. I'm going to do all that I can to look into this for you and make sure it doesn't happen again; because I'm a member of the organization, I'm going to take personal ownership of the matter. I know we have somewhat of an image and PR problem and I'm sorry about what happened. If there is anything I can personally do or we as a group can do to make this up to you, feel free to let us know.

For all the "brotherhood" you guys stress in the Fall, it sure seems like you're dreadfully quick to pass the buck to those who are so revered and came before you.

mcjd01-
What position did you hold? Was it pretty high up, since you knew all the redpots? You know, they could have been 98 or 97 redpots. One from those years would only be around 29-30 years old. Just a thought.

somebody pulled in front of me at a red light the other day. Judging by the vehicle they were in, I believe it was []1.

...now, don't pass the buck...where is my appology?

Wow, really, Terry? You can read my responses and take away from them that nothing was done and no effort was made to get to the bottom of this? What part of "On behalf of ASB, I apologize for how you were treated..." does not attempt to take at least part of the ownership? I am sorry that in the process of trying to discover what happened and who the offending party was that I didn't find someone to nail to a cross and post pictures here for all to see.

Let me clear, former leaders (new and old) are valuable assets to Bonfire for their experience, advice, and support. There is no intention to use former leaders as scapegoats so current leadership always has an out in these type of situations. What was found was reported in this case and there is not a lot more ASB can do after this. We can apologize for how a person was treated, talk to the old guys and relate to them how their actions affect the current group, and make sure the current leaders learn something from it. But, if the old guys tell us to take a flying leap, not much else can be done.

mcjd01, if you want to discuss this further off-line with me, I'm open to that. Also, I invite you to make another visit in the fall and go see first hand what the new guys are up to.

Scott Coker '92

First of all, that wasn't directed entirely at you, so don't be so defensive. I shouldn't expect anything less though, you all always are.

Secondly saying "Yeah, sorry about that, we'll be looking in to" sure does sound hollow to me. How much consolation would you receive from a response like that if somebody wronged you in some minor or major way? It's not being proactive and it's doing little to figure out what happened and more importantly it's not doing anything to prevent these kinds of things from happening again.

I'm not saying you didn't do anything, you were sorry it happened, and I'm sure you meant it. Do you know who did it though, are they sorry?

It totally pisses me off that Stephen McGee didn't apologize when Reggie McNeal randomly attacked that 16 year old kid a few weeks ago.

http://www.nflgridirongab.com/2007/06/13/assault-accusation-against-bengals-chris-henry/

I'm really at a loss for words that you two are able to draw connections between those two situations and an Aggie being nearly verbally assaulted and threatened at a bar here in College Station.

It really is frustrating that your response, which surely implies the organization's response, is sarcasm and for some of you it's "well, tough sh*t. I'm sure it was all a misunderstanding." If you took things like this more seriously then maybe the piss poor reputation that follows your ilk around would be somewhat softened.

Wasn't what happened to Moses at all a wakeup call to the culture that bonfire at time encourages? I know my opinion means nothing to most if not all of you, but if something like that were to happen to a very large contributor of my organization's demographics, it would be a major blow and I would take a step back and wonder what the hell is going on. And I would wonder what I could do to fix it, quickly.

Instead, some of you blow it off and some of you think nothing of it. And to you guilty of doing that in this situation and the numerous others before, you ought to know it only takes one moron in an otherwise good organization to ruin it for one person. And who knows what sort of influence that one person may have.

Obviously Coker (and a select handfull of others), I'm not referring to you, and I hope you realize that. I also realize that there are hundreds of other people that go out there that just wanna build a damn good fire and make a positive impact on an organization in its infancy. But still...you've still got to know that it only takes one person to really mess it up for everybody.

The guy from '88 was polite, the ones that were trying to joke I'm not sure, the one who got in my face and I had to tell to get out of my face was young, he had braces and was blonde and was not anyone I recognized, nor could he have been over 30. I was a jr, a girl, so I'll let you decide what I was, I was not involved with cookie shack.

It should not matter who I was or if I came across wrong, there were more polite ways of handling it and when the rude guy got in my face, that was wrong. He was young, and when someone says please leave me alone, then you walk away, but no I had to say it more than once and then become more forceful.

The older guy from '88 was polite to me, he tried to explain to me what was going on, and was a bit apologetic of the young guys, that is how I know there were young guys there, he is the one who told me, also, deductive reasoning told me. Too young (blonde with braces) and not people that I recognized. I did not mention the older guy because he was not the one who was rude to me. If I am mistaken about an age, then I hope that younger people learn that this way was not effective.

I am not trying to start stuff, I am just annoyed that this even happened. Like I said in my initial post, I'm not sure how I feel about the continuation of bonfire, but I had respect for the people, because it is a lot harder to be the first ones to do something. But then this happens, so it is disappointing. Just remember how important PR is for the group.

Also, I'm not asking for a third party apology, I just want the people who were rude to realize that behaving that way is not appropriate and you never who you are talking to.

[This message has been edited by mcjd01 (edited 7/19/2007 9:48p).]edited to remove things not needed.

One last thing, and this is not meant for Coker, but good people admit when they are wrong and do not try to place blame elsewhere. Old or new, I always thought aggies were supposed to be good to each other, especially when it comes to touchy subjects like these.

[This message has been edited by mcjd01 (edited 7/19/2007 11:26p).]

[This message has been edited by mcjd01 (edited 7/20/2007 12:19a).]

I promise that this will be discussed at the up-coming SB board meeting.

If a(ny) member(s) of SB leadership was adversely involved in the situation, the appropriate steps will be taken to rectify any wrongs committed on behalf of SB by said person(s).

Know that this kind of interaction is not taken lightly.

-------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

kind of sounds like wasted time to me...

if the world was to stop and discuss and wrongly appologize every time a false accusation or presumption was made...

we'd still be waiting for the wheel.

Did those big boys hurt your feelings, lil soldier? I bet momma will kiss your booboo and make it all betta.

A BRP word o' wisdom: Get over yourself... Everyone else has!

For Opie and his not willing to put up with this kind of sh*t while others think its just a big joke.

Attacking girls/women in public for their misunderstandings related to bonfire, really cool guys.

And Rebel, saying your sorry is the right thing to do in situations like this whether you agree with it or not. Nobody's asking you to apologize for the world's wrongdoings or even this one in particular, but the least you could do is not be a jerk about it.

so if your neighbor has blue paint on her trashcan, which was knocked into and spilled across her yard by a car...and you drive a blue car, but hadn't left the house since she put the can on the curb, but she knocks on your door and accuses you anyway...

...you would take the blame? why?

This is ridiculous, again, why are you trying to draw connections to member(s) of ASB verbally attacking a girl in a bar for asking a question and making up hypothethical situations?

If my neighbor had accused me of that, I would have explained that no, I hadn't left the house that day, but fi I knew anything, I'd let her know.

This is how I see it. At work, if somebody makes a mistake or a customer was mistreated, I take responsibility on behalf of the business and do what I can and then some to make sure the wrong is made right.

What about this is so difficult for you to grasp?

I'm surprised nobody has asked about the current guys that are in charge; I guess they have junior and senior redpots like before. How many are there?

Do any of them have blonde hair and braces? Seems like that would settle it pretty quick.

Don't count on anybody naming names on here or saying anything that could possibly help ya. The more things are discussed, the more a demand for a veil of secrecy there is.

Upper leadership is GREATLY discouraged from posting in this forum for reasons we can all only speculate on...

Square, the reason that upper leadership doesn't post, is you. You twist people's words to mean what they didn't intend.

As I have gotten more of the story, I assume I am the one she is talking about. I do have braces, but not blonde hair and I am over 30. I actually have dark hair and I am 32. I don't remember anyone else with braces in the group.

mcjd01 - As I walked up from the back bar, you and the c/o '88 guy were walking away from the group of Bonfire guys toward me and you looked ticked. I asked where you were going to and you said, "Get away from me". Then I asked what was wrong and you said, "Get the HELL away from me." The class of '88 guy told me he was going to talk to you, so I walked away.

I don't know what happened when you were talking to the group, but you were already frustrated when we crossed paths. I am not going to apologize for anything as my only crime was trying to understand why you were walking away from the group upset. By no means did I "get in your face".

If it came across that way, then it might have been because you already had a chip on your shoulder and you were a "little tipsy".

No Slim, the reason they don't want people like you posting is because you open your mouths in such a way that the entire organization is believed, for example, to share your deragatory and sexist view of women.

I'm not the reason people think the way they do. I sincerely doubt I'm the reason why these views come to light, but if all it takes is somebody asking questions and sharing their point of view to make you open your mouth and say some of the things you say...maybe there are bigger problems at hand.

Trust me, some people here don't need any help exposing them for the way they truly think.

It's not my fault you think the way you do and hold the opinions you hold. Maybe ASB ought to keep you on a short leash and continue watching what you say.

P.S. You're giving me way too much credit Slim, and I know that for an absolute fact to not be true, as you're the only one whose words have allegedly been "twisted". And surely there are others who post on here.

However, you know full well I didn't do anything to your words to affect what they meant. Your peers read exactly what you wrote and made up their minds from that, they didn't come to me, they wouldn't even consider it.

I didn't make you come across as a bigot and/or sexist. I didn't tell anybody you had a closed-minded approach towards women in or out of the workplace. You did that all on your own.

You should know better than that.



mcj, does 3B seem like the guy you're talking about? And if he was the one, what made you mad or upset in the first place?

Terry, you do not know me. If you did know me, you would know that I am anything but sexist/bigot.

What I am is, as one of my friends put it: "Jim, you aren't a very cunning linguist...." (Probably the most eloquent way to put it, illustrating a point.)

Action was taken in my case because I had, over YEARS, said things that were my opinion (even when I wasn't a Greypot or on the Board) and those caused SB to be viewed in a skewed manner.

During the time in which I was merely an observant to SB, many of the things I posted about on Texags were half truth's and in some rare cases flat-out incorrect. (Sound familiar?)

Those things, combined with the thread in which you refer when all lumped together do paint me in a bad picture.

Now, I expect the above post to be chopped and selectively quoted. Have fun with that, I will see how it turned out next weekend.