Absolutely. There are plenty of "religious" figures that don't think the way I do. The emperors of Rome and kings of Europe were nominally Christian for millenia, but I think game theory better describes their behavior and that of their people than Christianity. I think game theory is a terrible way to model monks, saints, pious Christian communities and the like. Game theory says that communities should have harsh penalties against exploitation and free riding, but Christians voluntarily care for the needy and unproductive without any expectation of making our own lives materially better

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There has been a huge mathematical, philosophical, and sociological outburst of theory and research in regards to Game Theory since it was founded. I'm not up on all of it, but I try to stay up on this side of it.

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I read a lot on it as well. The best way I read about of looking at religion through a game theory lens goes like this:

1) Religion requires its adherents to act is an irrational manner - specifically through the form of forgiving those who have trespassed against us. It is not rational to forgive someone who has stolen from you or assaulted you as they will likely do so again to you or others in the future.

2) But what does a purely rational word with no forgiveness look like? A very tribal and brutal one where the social order collapses. Even on a micro level, the inability to forgive would lead to a collapse in social or friend based or marital bonds

3) So in engaging in forgiveness, we build a more stable and mutually beneficial society that advances your long-term self interest compared to the alternative. That is essentially the game theory optimal outcome being achieved by short-changing yourself..

This line of thought was then enhanced through the in group and out group line of thinking in sociology. We tend to engage in forgiveness for members of our in-group while being much more hostile to out groups.

I think this helps explain the moral cognitive dissonance on display in many religious, secular, or cultural groups that engage in forgiveness in one setting but then take more hostile stances towards outgroups, whether that be westerners deriding Muslim culture and vice versa, U.S. Citizens being hostile to illegal immigrants or just the garden variety hatred between "Evil Godless Stupid Ugly Libs" and "Dirty, Uneducated, Volatile, Redneck Maga Boomer Idiots"

ramblin_ag02 said:

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Absolutely. There are plenty of "religious" figures that don't think the way I do. The emperors of Rome and kings of Europe were nominally Christian for millenia, but I think game theory better describes their behavior and that of their people than Christianity. I think game theory is a terrible way to model monks, saints, pious Christian communities and the like. Game theory says that communities should have harsh penalties against exploitation and free riding, but Christians voluntarily care for the needy and unproductive without any expectation of making our own lives materially better

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Maybe this is pedantic, but I don't think it is correct to say that game theory says communities should have harsh penalties for free riding. I think it is more correct to say that game theory suggests that penalties can be a strategy to encourage people to be less likely to act in self interest in a way that exploits the system.

Windy City Ag said:

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Quote:

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There has been a huge mathematical, philosophical, and sociological outburst of theory and research in regards to Game Theory since it was founded. I'm not up on all of it, but I try to stay up on this side of it.

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I read a lot on it as well. The best way I read about of looking at religion through a game theory lens goes like this:

1) Religion requires its adherents to act is an irrational manner - specifically through the form of forgiving those who have trespassed against us. It is not rational to forgive someone who has stolen from you or assaulted you as they will likely do so again to you or others in the future.

2) But what does a purely rational word with no forgiveness look like? A very tribal and brutal one where the social order collapses. Even on a micro level, the inability to forgive would lead to a collapse in social or friend based or marital bonds

3) So in engaging in forgiveness, we build a more stable and mutually beneficial society that advances your long-term self interest compared to the alternative. That is essentially the game theory optimal outcome being achieved by short-changing yourself..

This line of thought was then enhanced through the in group and out group line of thinking in sociology. We tend to engage in forgiveness for members of our in-group while being much more hostile to out groups.

I think this helps explain the moral cognitive dissonance on display in many religious, secular, or cultural groups that engage in forgiveness in one setting but then take more hostile stances towards outgroups, whether that be westerners deriding Muslim culture and vice versa, U.S. Citizens being hostile to illegal immigrants or just the garden variety hatred between "Evil Godless Stupid Ugly Libs" and "Dirty, Uneducated, Volatile, Redneck Maga Boomer Idiots"

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I can't speak for religion in general, but I can say the underlying assumptions of Christianity and Game Theory are entirely different. Game theory is the study of how rational self interest alone can develop into complex behavioral patterns like family structures, societies, and laws. Self interest the underlying driver of everything, and every other behavior is part of an emergent phenomenon. Christianity is not compatible with that. In Christianity God (goodness, love, justice, mercy, compassion, charity) comes first, and everything else emerges from that. Self interest is not part of the equation at all.

kurt vonnegut said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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Absolutely. There are plenty of "religious" figures that don't think the way I do. The emperors of Rome and kings of Europe were nominally Christian for millenia, but I think game theory better describes their behavior and that of their people than Christianity. I think game theory is a terrible way to model monks, saints, pious Christian communities and the like. Game theory says that communities should have harsh penalties against exploitation and free riding, but Christians voluntarily care for the needy and unproductive without any expectation of making our own lives materially better

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Maybe this is pedantic, but I don't think it is correct to say that game theory says communities should have harsh penalties for free riding. I think it is more correct to say that game theory suggests that penalties can be a strategy to encourage people to be less likely to act in self interest in a way that exploits the system.

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I think your criticism is correct and not pedantic at all.