Scott's final message:

A Final Message From Scott Adams pic.twitter.com/QKX6b0MFZA

— Scott Adams (@ScottAdamsSays) January 13, 2026

I have read through this thread several times and am very confused. Calvinists/reformed believe in unconditional election. So Scott Adams, or anyone for that matter, eternal fate is predestined and there is nothing he or anyone else can do about it. Yet his conversion is being questioned as whether it is sincere or not by Calvinsts/reformed.
This is not logical to me. And I am honestly trying to understand . Maybe I do not understand it because I am not of the elect? And if not I can do zero about it?
Help?

He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

I do not know what was in his heart or what he said on his death bed, but that letter is not a conversion to Christ, but hedging a bet.

I pray he found Jesus in the end.

Im Gipper said:

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I do not know what was in his heart or what he said on his death bed, but that letter is not a conversion to Christ, but hedging a bet.

I pray he found Jesus in the end.

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Under Calvinism/Reformed theology he couldn't have found Jesus unless he was of the pre ordained elect. So what difference do his words or thoughts mean? I am seriously confused.

You'd have to ask a Calvinism/Reformed theologian for that answer! That's not me.

I just think that when someone says they are not a believer, but saying something based on the risk-reward, it does not come across in my opinion as a sincere conversion. But like I said, I don't know his heart. He may have been kidding around.

dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

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"But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."Romans 10:20-21

Now, this morning I am about to consider the two doctrines. In the 20th verse, we have taught us the doctrines of sovereign grace"But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." In the next verse, we have the doctrine of man's guilt in rejecting God. "To Israel he saith, all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

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First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man be saved, he is saved by Divine grace, and by Divine grace alone; and the reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will; but we will and do as the result of God's good pleasure, and the work of his grace in our hearts. No sinner can prevent God; that is, he cannot go before him, cannot anticipate him; God is always first in the matter of salvation. He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us, is preceded by the grace of God, and is the effect of a Divine cause within.

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Now, I want you to notice the sovereignty of Divine grace as illustrated in the text: "I was found of them that sought me not, I was made manifest to them that asked not after thee." You would imagine that if God gave his grace to any he would wait until he found them earnestly seeking him. You would imagine that God in the highest heavens would say, "I have mercies, but I will leave men alone, and when they feel their need of these mercies and seek me diligently with their whole heart, day and night, with tears, and vows, and supplications, then will I bless them, but not before." But, beloved, God saith no such thing. It is true he doth bless them that cry unto him, but he blesses them before they cry, for their cries are not their own cries, but cries which he has put into their lips; their desires are not of their own growth, but desires which he has cast like good seed into the soil of their hearts. God saves the men that do not seek him. Oh, wonder of wonders! It is mercy indeed when God saves a seeker; but how much greater mercy when he seeks the lost himself! Mark the parable of Jesus Christ concerning the lost sheep; it does not run thus: "A certain man had a hundred sheep, and one of them did go astray. And he tarried at home, and lo, the sheep came back, and he received it joyfully and said to his friends, rejoice, for the sheep that I have lost is come back." No; he went after the sheep: it never would have come after him; it would have wandered farther and farther away. He went after it; over hills of difficulty, down valleys of despondency he pursued its wandering feet, and at last he laid hold of it; he did not drive it before him, he did not lead it, but he carried it himself all the way, and when he brought it home he did not say, the sheep is come back," but, "I have found the sheep which was lost." Men do not seek God first; God seeks them first; and if any of you are seeking him to-day it is because he has first sought you. If you are desiring him he desired you first, and your good desires and earnest seeking will not be the cause of your salvation, but the effects of previous grace given to you.

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I remember, when I was converted to God, I was an Arminian thoroughly. I thought I had begun the good work myself, and I used sometimes to sit down and think, "Well, I sought the Lord four years before I found him," and I think I began to compliment myself upon the fact that I had perseveringly entreated of him in the midst of much discouragement. But one day the thought struck me, "How was it you came to seek God?" and in an instant the answer came from my soul, "Why, because he led me to do it; he must first have shown me my need of him, or else I should never have sought him; he must have shown me his preciousness, or I never should have thought him worth seeking;" and at once I saw the doctrines of grace as clear as possible. God must begin. Nature can never rise above itself. You put water into a reservoir, and it will rise as high as that, but no higher if let alone. Now, it is not in human nature to seek the Lord. Human nature is depraved, and therefore, there must be the extraordinary pressure of the Holy Spirit put upon the heart to lead us first to ask for mercy.

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Let me give you an illustration. You see that man on his horse surrounded by a body of troopers. How proud he is, and how he reins up his horse with conscious dignity. Sir, what have you got there? What are those despatches you treasure up with so much care? "Oh, sir, I have that in my hand that will vex the church of God in Damascus. I have dragged the fellows into the synagogue, both men and women; I have scourged them, and compelled them to blaspheme; and I have this commission from the high priest to drag them to Jerusalem, that I may put them to death." Saul! Saul! have you no love for Christ? "Love to him! No. When they stoned Stephen, I took care of the witnesses' clothes, and I rejoiced to do it. I wish I had had the crucifying of their Master, for I hate them with perfect hatred, and I breathe out threatenings and slaughter against them." What do you say of this man? If he be saved, will you not grant that it must be some Divine sovereignty that converts him?

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Can we not trace our pedigree through a whole line of men like Newton, and Whitfield, and Owen, and Bunyan, straight away on till we come to Calvin, Luther, and Zwingle; and then we can go back from them to Savonarola, to Jerome of Prague, to Huss, and then back to Augustine, the mighty preacher of Christianity; and from St. Augustine to Paul is but one step. We need not be ashamed of our pedigree; although Calvinists are now considered to be heterodox, we are and ever must be orthodox. It is the old doctrine. Go and buy any puritanical book, and see if you can find Arminianism in it. Search all the book stalls over, and see if you can find one large folio book of olden times that anything in it but the doctrine of the free grace of God.

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I must confess, however, that there are some men who preach this doctrine who are doing ten thousand times more harm than good, because they don't preach the next doctrine I am going to proclaim, which is just as true. They have this to be the sail. but they have not the other to be the ballast. They can preach one side but not the other. They can go along with the high doctrine, but they will not preach the whole of the Word. Such men caricature the Word of God. And just let me say here, that it is the custom of a certain body of Ultra-Calvinists, to call those of us who teach that it is the duty of man to repent and believe, "Mongrel Calvinists." If you hear any of them say so, give them my most respectful compliments, and ask them whether they ever read Calvin's works in their lives. Not that I care what Calvin said or did not say; but ask them whether they, ever read his works; and if they say "No," as they must say, for there are forty-eight large voluines, you can tell them, that the man whom they call "a Mongrel Calvinist," though he has not read them all, has read a very good share of them, and knows their spirit; and he knows that he preaches substantially what Calvin preachedthat every doctrine he preaches may be found in Calvin's Commentaries on some part of Scripture or other. We are TRUE Calvinists, however. Calvin is nobody to us. Jesus Christ and him crucified, and the old fashioned Bible, are our standards. Beloved, let us take God's Word as it stands. If we find high doctrine there, let it be high; if we find low doctrine, let it be low; let us set up no other standard than the Bible affords.

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Now then for the second point. "There now," says my ultra friend, "he is going to contradict himself." No, my friend, I am not, I am only going to contradict you. The second point is MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY. "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." Now, these people whom God had cast away had been wooed, had been sought, had been entreated to be saved; but they would not, and inasmuch as they were not saved, it was the effect of their disobedience and their gainsaying. That lies clearly enough in the text.

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Now let me notice the wooing of God and of what sort it is. First, it was the most affectionate wooing in the world. Lost sinners who sit under the sound of the gospel are not lost for the want of the most affectionate invitation. God says he stretched out his hands. You know what that means. You have seen the child who is disobedient and will not come to his father. The father puts out his hands, and says, "Come, my child, come; I am ready to forgive you." The tear is in his eye, and his bowels move with compassion, and he says, "Come, come." God says this is what he did"he stretched out his hands." That is what he has done to some of you. You that are not saved to-day are without excuse, for God stretched out his hands to you, and he said, "Come, come."

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And note again, this invitation was very frequent. The words, "all the day long," may be translated "daily""Daily have I stretched forth my hands." Sinner, God has not called you once to come, and then let you alone, but every day has he been at you; every day has conscience spoken to you; every day has providence warned you, and every Sabbath has the Word of God wooed you.

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This doctrine is as much God's Word as the other. You ask me to reconcile the two. I answer, they do not want any reconcilement; I never tried to reconcile them to myself, because I could never see a discrepancy. If you begin to put fifty or sixty quibbles to me, I cannot give any answer. Both are true; no two truths can be inconsistent with each other; and what you have to do is to believe them both. With the first one, the saint has most to do. Let him praise the free and sovereign grace of God, and bless his name. With the second, the sinner has the most to do. O sinner, humble thyself under the mighty hand of God, when thou thinkest of how often he hath shown his love to thee, by bidding thee come to himself, and yet how often thou hast spurned his Word and refused his mercy, and turned a deaf ear to every invitation, and hast gone thy way to rebel against a God of love, and violate the commands of him that loved thee.

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Now, with regard to myself; you may some of you go away and say, that I was Antinomian in the first part of the sermon and Arminian at the end. I care not. I beg of you to search the Bible for yourselves. To the law and to the testimony; if I speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in me. I am willing to come to that test. Have nothing to do with me where I have nothing to do with Christ. Where I separate from the truth, cast my words away. But if what I say be God's teaching, I charge you, by him that sent me, give these things your thoughts, and turn unto the Lord with all your hearts.

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A few sermon clips from the prince of preachers on the matter.
https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/sovereign-grace-and-mans-responsibility/#flipbook/

The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

---

Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

---

Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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Isn't that what you just did?

It is mind blowing to see that many obvious contradiction, which he readily admits, that have a clear and simple solution, but he steadfastly holds to the inability to reconcile them. Amazing.

10andBOUNCE said:

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That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring.

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"But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."Romans 10:20-21

Now, this morning I am about to consider the two doctrines. In the 20th verse, we have taught us the doctrines of sovereign grace"But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me." In the next verse, we have the doctrine of man's guilt in rejecting God. "To Israel he saith, all day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people."

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Quote:

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First, then, DIVINE SOVEREIGNTY AS EXEMPLIFIED IN SALVATION. If any man be saved, he is saved by Divine grace, and by Divine grace alone; and the reason of his salvation is not to be found in him, but in God. We are not saved as the result of anything that we do or that we will; but we will and do as the result of God's good pleasure, and the work of his grace in our hearts. No sinner can prevent God; that is, he cannot go before him, cannot anticipate him; God is always first in the matter of salvation. He is before our convictions, before our desires, before our fears, before our hopes. All that is good or ever will be good in us, is preceded by the grace of God, and is the effect of a Divine cause within.

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Quote:

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Now, I want you to notice the sovereignty of Divine grace as illustrated in the text: "I was found of them that sought me not, I was made manifest to them that asked not after thee." You would imagine that if God gave his grace to any he would wait until he found them earnestly seeking him. You would imagine that God in the highest heavens would say, "I have mercies, but I will leave men alone, and when they feel their need of these mercies and seek me diligently with their whole heart, day and night, with tears, and vows, and supplications, then will I bless them, but not before." But, beloved, God saith no such thing. It is true he doth bless them that cry unto him, but he blesses them before they cry, for their cries are not their own cries, but cries which he has put into their lips; their desires are not of their own growth, but desires which he has cast like good seed into the soil of their hearts. God saves the men that do not seek him. Oh, wonder of wonders! It is mercy indeed when God saves a seeker; but how much greater mercy when he seeks the lost himself! Mark the parable of Jesus Christ concerning the lost sheep; it does not run thus: "A certain man had a hundred sheep, and one of them did go astray. And he tarried at home, and lo, the sheep came back, and he received it joyfully and said to his friends, rejoice, for the sheep that I have lost is come back." No; he went after the sheep: it never would have come after him; it would have wandered farther and farther away. He went after it; over hills of difficulty, down valleys of despondency he pursued its wandering feet, and at last he laid hold of it; he did not drive it before him, he did not lead it, but he carried it himself all the way, and when he brought it home he did not say, the sheep is come back," but, "I have found the sheep which was lost." Men do not seek God first; God seeks them first; and if any of you are seeking him to-day it is because he has first sought you. If you are desiring him he desired you first, and your good desires and earnest seeking will not be the cause of your salvation, but the effects of previous grace given to you.

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I remember, when I was converted to God, I was an Arminian thoroughly. I thought I had begun the good work myself, and I used sometimes to sit down and think, "Well, I sought the Lord four years before I found him," and I think I began to compliment myself upon the fact that I had perseveringly entreated of him in the midst of much discouragement. But one day the thought struck me, "How was it you came to seek God?" and in an instant the answer came from my soul, "Why, because he led me to do it; he must first have shown me my need of him, or else I should never have sought him; he must have shown me his preciousness, or I never should have thought him worth seeking;" and at once I saw the doctrines of grace as clear as possible. God must begin. Nature can never rise above itself. You put water into a reservoir, and it will rise as high as that, but no higher if let alone. Now, it is not in human nature to seek the Lord. Human nature is depraved, and therefore, there must be the extraordinary pressure of the Holy Spirit put upon the heart to lead us first to ask for mercy.

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Let me give you an illustration. You see that man on his horse surrounded by a body of troopers. How proud he is, and how he reins up his horse with conscious dignity. Sir, what have you got there? What are those despatches you treasure up with so much care? "Oh, sir, I have that in my hand that will vex the church of God in Damascus. I have dragged the fellows into the synagogue, both men and women; I have scourged them, and compelled them to blaspheme; and I have this commission from the high priest to drag them to Jerusalem, that I may put them to death." Saul! Saul! have you no love for Christ? "Love to him! No. When they stoned Stephen, I took care of the witnesses' clothes, and I rejoiced to do it. I wish I had had the crucifying of their Master, for I hate them with perfect hatred, and I breathe out threatenings and slaughter against them." What do you say of this man? If he be saved, will you not grant that it must be some Divine sovereignty that converts him?

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Can we not trace our pedigree through a whole line of men like Newton, and Whitfield, and Owen, and Bunyan, straight away on till we come to Calvin, Luther, and Zwingle; and then we can go back from them to Savonarola, to Jerome of Prague, to Huss, and then back to Augustine, the mighty preacher of Christianity; and from St. Augustine to Paul is but one step. We need not be ashamed of our pedigree; although Calvinists are now considered to be heterodox, we are and ever must be orthodox. It is the old doctrine. Go and buy any puritanical book, and see if you can find Arminianism in it. Search all the book stalls over, and see if you can find one large folio book of olden times that anything in it but the doctrine of the free grace of God.

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I must confess, however, that there are some men who preach this doctrine who are doing ten thousand times more harm than good, because they don't preach the next doctrine I am going to proclaim, which is just as true. They have this to be the sail. but they have not the other to be the ballast. They can preach one side but not the other. They can go along with the high doctrine, but they will not preach the whole of the Word. Such men caricature the Word of God. And just let me say here, that it is the custom of a certain body of Ultra-Calvinists, to call those of us who teach that it is the duty of man to repent and believe, "Mongrel Calvinists." If you hear any of them say so, give them my most respectful compliments, and ask them whether they ever read Calvin's works in their lives. Not that I care what Calvin said or did not say; but ask them whether they, ever read his works; and if they say "No," as they must say, for there are forty-eight large voluines, you can tell them, that the man whom they call "a Mongrel Calvinist," though he has not read them all, has read a very good share of them, and knows their spirit; and he knows that he preaches substantially what Calvin preachedthat every doctrine he preaches may be found in Calvin's Commentaries on some part of Scripture or other. We are TRUE Calvinists, however. Calvin is nobody to us. Jesus Christ and him crucified, and the old fashioned Bible, are our standards. Beloved, let us take God's Word as it stands. If we find high doctrine there, let it be high; if we find low doctrine, let it be low; let us set up no other standard than the Bible affords.

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Now then for the second point. "There now," says my ultra friend, "he is going to contradict himself." No, my friend, I am not, I am only going to contradict you. The second point is MAN'S RESPONSIBILITY. "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." Now, these people whom God had cast away had been wooed, had been sought, had been entreated to be saved; but they would not, and inasmuch as they were not saved, it was the effect of their disobedience and their gainsaying. That lies clearly enough in the text.

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Quote:

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Now let me notice the wooing of God and of what sort it is. First, it was the most affectionate wooing in the world. Lost sinners who sit under the sound of the gospel are not lost for the want of the most affectionate invitation. God says he stretched out his hands. You know what that means. You have seen the child who is disobedient and will not come to his father. The father puts out his hands, and says, "Come, my child, come; I am ready to forgive you." The tear is in his eye, and his bowels move with compassion, and he says, "Come, come." God says this is what he did"he stretched out his hands." That is what he has done to some of you. You that are not saved to-day are without excuse, for God stretched out his hands to you, and he said, "Come, come."

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Quote:

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And note again, this invitation was very frequent. The words, "all the day long," may be translated "daily""Daily have I stretched forth my hands." Sinner, God has not called you once to come, and then let you alone, but every day has he been at you; every day has conscience spoken to you; every day has providence warned you, and every Sabbath has the Word of God wooed you.

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Quote:

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This doctrine is as much God's Word as the other. You ask me to reconcile the two. I answer, they do not want any reconcilement; I never tried to reconcile them to myself, because I could never see a discrepancy. If you begin to put fifty or sixty quibbles to me, I cannot give any answer. Both are true; no two truths can be inconsistent with each other; and what you have to do is to believe them both. With the first one, the saint has most to do. Let him praise the free and sovereign grace of God, and bless his name. With the second, the sinner has the most to do. O sinner, humble thyself under the mighty hand of God, when thou thinkest of how often he hath shown his love to thee, by bidding thee come to himself, and yet how often thou hast spurned his Word and refused his mercy, and turned a deaf ear to every invitation, and hast gone thy way to rebel against a God of love, and violate the commands of him that loved thee.

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Now, with regard to myself; you may some of you go away and say, that I was Antinomian in the first part of the sermon and Arminian at the end. I care not. I beg of you to search the Bible for yourselves. To the law and to the testimony; if I speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in me. I am willing to come to that test. Have nothing to do with me where I have nothing to do with Christ. Where I separate from the truth, cast my words away. But if what I say be God's teaching, I charge you, by him that sent me, give these things your thoughts, and turn unto the Lord with all your hearts.

---

A few sermon clips from the prince of preachers on the matter.
https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/sovereign-grace-and-mans-responsibility/#flipbook/

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I get what they are saying and have read Spurgeon pretty extensively. Also Sproul, MacArthur, Piper, etc. And I understand the concept of man's responsibility after he is regenerated.

But the bottom line is double predestination coupled with ECT hell.

So you get to the point, no matter how many words you use, that God creates people pre ordained to ECT hell. I do not think that is Biblical or logical.

But we have had this discussion numerous times. The only thing I can think is that I am not of the elect so I can't understand TULIP. And man have I tried.

He is admitting both are contained in God's word.

God predestines
Man accepts or rejects

dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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Isn't that what you just did?

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Yes. To demonstrate why it's not the way we read the bible. I know we've gone round and round on this as a board before, but I don't how anyone can use the blanket statement "the bible is clear" when there are thousands of different interpretations. The fact that the "bible alone" teaching started in the 1500s has led to as many splits as it has should be more than enough evidence to show it's untrue.

dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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God is using Scott's words to cause all of us to think and ponder His Grace. Scott didn't have a thought about that when he wrote this... or did he?

The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

---

Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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Isn't that what you just did?

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Yes. To demonstrate why it's not the way we read the bible. I know we've gone round and round on this as a board before, but I don't how anyone can use the blanket statement "the bible is clear" when there are thousands of different interpretations. The fact that the "bible alone" teaching started in the 1500s has led to as many splits as it has should be more than enough evidence to show it's untrue.

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And my interpretation of the verse you cited is the key thing is that Jesus did not know them. There was no relationship. They were doing works but did not know Christ. And I think that ties into all that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved nicely.

10andBOUNCE said:

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He is admitting both are contained in God's word.

God predestines
Man accepts or rejects

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Not that part. The part where he calls himself a Calvinist, while espousing Arminian theology, and not even realize it. He thinks Arminianism means that man moves first. Arminianism does not teach this. That's why he admits he may sound to Arminian. For some reason he couldn't see it.

If you took this writing back in time and showed it to Luther and Calvin, they would say he sounds too Catholic.

10andBOUNCE said:

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He is admitting both are contained in God's word.

God predestines
Man accepts or rejects

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So we agree. It is synergism.

The Banned said:

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The fact that the "bible alone" teaching started in the 1500s has led to as many splits as it has should be more than enough evidence to show it's untrue.

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How do you reconcile these quotes?

Athanasius of Alexandria (c. 296-373)
"The holy and inspired Scriptures are fully sufficient for the proclamation of the truth."
- Contra Gentes, 1.3

Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 313-386)
"For concerning the divine and holy mysteries of the Faith, not even a casual statement must be delivered without the Holy Scriptures; nor must we be drawn aside by mere plausibility and artifices of speech. Even to me, who tell you these things, give not absolute credence, unless you receive the proof of the things which I announce from the Divine Scriptures."
- Catechetical Lectures, 4.17

Augustine of Hippo (354-430)
"In those things which are plainly laid down in Scripture are found all things that concern faith and the manner of life."
- On Christian Doctrine, 2.9

John Chrysostom (c. 347-407)
"Therefore, I beg you, let us hold fast to the rule of Scripture, and not introduce anything of our own."
- Homilies on 2 Corinthians, Homily 13
"All things are clear and open that are in the divine Scriptures; the necessary things are all plain."
- Homilies on 2 Thessalonians, Homily 3

Basil the Great (c. 330-379)
"We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture."
- On the Holy Spirit, 7.16
"Let God-inspired Scripture decide between us."
- Letters, 189

dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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Isn't that what you just did?

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Yes. To demonstrate why it's not the way we read the bible. I know we've gone round and round on this as a board before, but I don't how anyone can use the blanket statement "the bible is clear" when there are thousands of different interpretations. The fact that the "bible alone" teaching started in the 1500s has led to as many splits as it has should be more than enough evidence to show it's untrue.

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And my interpretation of the verse you cited is the key thing is that Jesus did not know them. There was no relationship. They were doing works but did not know Christ. And I think that ties into all that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved nicely.

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How does "call upon the name of Lord" = have a relationship with? Adams is doing the technical equivalent of calling upon the name of the Lord, so you'd have to use other verses to qualify your differing interpretation. Which is why putting Romans 10:13 on the board and saying this is easy doesn't really work.

The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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The Banned said:

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dermdoc said:

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Rex Racer said:

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He did write that statement on January 1, so he had a few more days to ponder it, and I'm sure the Holy Spirit was working on him. He may have had a true moment of faith over those days where he DID believe. It only takes faith the size of a mustard seed.

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Romans 10:13

Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Why do we try to make it so hard when Scripture is so clear? It is like people say it can't be that easy. It is.

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Matt 7:21-23 is a direct rebuttal to that. You know you can't just take one verse, close your bible and call it a day.

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Isn't that what you just did?

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Yes. To demonstrate why it's not the way we read the bible. I know we've gone round and round on this as a board before, but I don't how anyone can use the blanket statement "the bible is clear" when there are thousands of different interpretations. The fact that the "bible alone" teaching started in the 1500s has led to as many splits as it has should be more than enough evidence to show it's untrue.

---

And my interpretation of the verse you cited is the key thing is that Jesus did not know them. There was no relationship. They were doing works but did not know Christ. And I think that ties into all that call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved nicely.

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How does "call upon the name of Lord" = have a relationship with? Adams is doing the technical equivalent of calling upon the name of the Lord, so you'd have to use other verses to qualify your differing interpretation. Which is why putting Romans 10:13 on the board and saying this is easy doesn't really work.

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It works for me. There are several Scriptures that state that you can't call upon the name of the Lord unless you believe.

How does a dead heart come back to life in order to believe?

The Banned said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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He is admitting both are contained in God's word.

God predestines
Man accepts or rejects

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Not that part. The part where he calls himself a Calvinist, while espousing Arminian theology, and not even realize it. He thinks Arminianism means that man moves first. Arminianism does not teach this. That's why he admits he may sound to Arminian. For some reason he couldn't see it.

If you took this writing back in time and showed it to Luther and Calvin, they would say he sounds too Catholic.

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Ok? And if you showed the current Pope to any of the early Church Fathers they would be aghast.

10andBOUNCE said:

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How does a dead heart come back to life in order to believe?

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Fair enough. Does that extend to everyone and they can refuse or reject? Seems to me that is what you are saying. And I agree with that. But that is sure not unconditional election. Or irresistible grace.

Or do you believe God creates people pre ordained to ECT hell?

Scripture does not lead me to believe that God's salvific love is extended to all, you know my position

Does God create those ordained for Hell? That is above my pay grade and I choose not to question my creator. His ways are true, pure, and above me. The idea I can fully comprehend his comprehensive existence is laughable.

I have never understood Calvinism.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Scripture does not lead me to believe that God's salvific love is extended to all, you know my position

Does God create those ordained for Hell? That is above my pay grade and I choose not to question my creator. His ways are true, pure, and above me. The idea I can fully comprehend his comprehensive existence is laughable.

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But Calvin stated he believed in double predestination. So he obviously thought he was sure God pre ordained people he created to hell. I reject that. And from what I read from you you are just saying you don't know but trust God. Which to me is a much better stance than Calvin.
And God could do that. He could do anything He wants. But to me, that would be a sin. And God cannot sin.

As Oswald Chambers said "The root of sin is the suspicion that Hod is not always good.

KentK93 said:

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I have never understood Calvinism.

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We must be of the non elect. Only explanation that works for me. And I have tried to understand it for years.

To be honest, if you read some of the noted Calvinist theologians of our time like Sproul, Piper, and MacArthur, I am not sure they understand it either. Especially the concept of double predestination which they tap dance around. At least Calvin was honest and stated what he believed.

I mean at the end of the day, God ordains, allows, accepts, whatever you want to call it. He creates people that will in fact be in hell and doesn't stop it like he has the power to. Use whatever word makes it easier to sleep, I guess.

10andBOUNCE said:

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I mean at the end of the day, God ordains, allows, accepts, whatever you want to call it. He creates people that will in fact be in hell and doesn't stop it like he has the power to. Use whatever word makes it easier to sleep, I guess.

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So you believe God creates people pre ordained to ECT hell? And that Scripture supports that?

So since I do not understand or agree with that then I must be of the non elect. That is the only explanation.

10andBOUNCE said:

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He is admitting both are contained in God's word.

God predestines
Man accepts or rejects

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And that is not Calvinism. Definitely not unconditional election or irresistible grace.

Gets back to another observation. Most people who claim to be Calvinists really are not.