AozorAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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dermdoc said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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TresPuertas said:

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I wish it wasn't the case but every time i turn on the TV or open my phone I see instance after instance of the good people of this country being mocked and taken advantage of by fraudsters, politicians, and soulless demons. Our God and his followers are continually being mocked and assaulted and the situation in Minnesota with that streamer berating and threatening those who were in the house of the Lord who were there to praise Him sent me over the edge.

When is enough enough? I know Jesus told us to love our enemies but something has to be done. This can't continue. We are in a spiritual war with literal, and yes I mean literally, and nobody is defending us.

I keep going back to Roman's 13:1-7 but I'd like to ask you guys what else I should turn to to help me. I want bad things to happen to these people, and i know that's not very Christlike.

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Dunno. I'm pretty pissed at masked federal agents ****ting on the Constitution and attacking protesters exercising their rights. But I guess a little authoritarianism is okay if it's your side.

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No, if it's my side a LOT of authoritarianism is okay. Enjoy your renditioning to a CIA black site in El Salvador.

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Yes, we know you're a fascist, GNLS.

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Let's ignore that.

The question is should existing immigration laws be enforced? And if not, what other laws should not be enforced.

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I'm fine with enforcing immigration laws, but crossing the border illegally is a civil offense. It doesn't require masked police to invade homes without due process and it shouldn't mean we have to carry papers to establish our citizenship like this is a fascist state.

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That is a blatant lie. First time illegal entry is a federal misdemeanor that carries jail time and/or a criminal fine along with deportation. It is a crime. There are also civil penalties that can be imposed IN ADDITION TO the criminal penalties. It is not a civil offense. That is a lie.

Illegal entry again after deportation is a felony.

Don't lie. If you would be truthful and intellectually honest, we could have an actual discussion about this. But you won't do that because your agenda is apparently more important to you than the truth.

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We are unable to have an actual discussion because you immediately launch into the most extreme claims and accusations you can make. Just admit it. I'm not sure if you fail to see liberals as fully American or even fully human, because you sure as **** can't have a conversation with one without launching into crap like this.

I should have said misdemeanor. Misspoke. Also, overstaying a visa, the most common form of illegal entry, is a civil offense.

AggieRain said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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dermdoc said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Your time to be angry was when the people you voted for let in 15 million illegals in an outrageous attempt to cement permanent political power.

You can't go take a dump in someone else's living room then ***** about how they choose to clean it up.

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Ignoring the idiotic conspiracy theory, do federal agents have an obligation to follow the Constitution?

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I love how Sapper try's to waive away well established facts by calling them "idiotic conspiracy theories."

Please educate me professor, why did the Biden administration open up the floodgates on immigration if it wasn't to increase political power? What do you think their reasoning was? I'm all ears.

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Sapper is a good man. And served our country. I respect him.

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This guy served in the army as well. Here's a picture from his West Point graduation

Serving in the army does not make one a "good man"

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That guy never made it to a unit. I have an A&M degree and led men in combat. But I'm glad to know where I fit in your worldview because I lean slightly to the left.

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Slightly??? Oh, boy...

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Yep. You may want to get out of your bubble.

Sapper Redux said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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dermdoc said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Your time to be angry was when the people you voted for let in 15 million illegals in an outrageous attempt to cement permanent political power.

You can't go take a dump in someone else's living room then ***** about how they choose to clean it up.

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Ignoring the idiotic conspiracy theory, do federal agents have an obligation to follow the Constitution?

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I love how Sapper try's to waive away well established facts by calling them "idiotic conspiracy theories."

Please educate me professor, why did the Biden administration open up the floodgates on immigration if it wasn't to increase political power? What do you think their reasoning was? I'm all ears.

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Sapper is a good man. And served our country. I respect him.

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This guy served in the army as well. Here's a picture from his West Point graduation

Serving in the army does not make one a "good man"

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That guy never made it to a unit. I have an A&M degree and led men in combat. But I'm glad to know where I fit in your worldview because I lean slightly to the left.

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He was deployed and served in Afghanistan before attending West Point

Does that mean he's a great guy?

Sapper Redux said:

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AggieRain said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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dermdoc said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Your time to be angry was when the people you voted for let in 15 million illegals in an outrageous attempt to cement permanent political power.

You can't go take a dump in someone else's living room then ***** about how they choose to clean it up.

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Ignoring the idiotic conspiracy theory, do federal agents have an obligation to follow the Constitution?

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I love how Sapper try's to waive away well established facts by calling them "idiotic conspiracy theories."

Please educate me professor, why did the Biden administration open up the floodgates on immigration if it wasn't to increase political power? What do you think their reasoning was? I'm all ears.

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Sapper is a good man. And served our country. I respect him.

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This guy served in the army as well. Here's a picture from his West Point graduation

Serving in the army does not make one a "good man"

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That guy never made it to a unit. I have an A&M degree and led men in combat. But I'm glad to know where I fit in your worldview because I lean slightly to the left.

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Slightly??? Oh, boy...

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Yep. You may want to get out of your bubble.

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Bwahahahaha

Are you opening the door to a discussion on your political positions?

"We are unable to have an actual discussion"

This has become the case more and more not just on this board, but in general. I think this is in part due to the rise of talk radio and media that caters to a certain political persuasion. Just my opinion.

I for one enjoy reading your take on events. Hang in there!

Sapper Redux said:

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AggieRain said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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dermdoc said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Your time to be angry was when the people you voted for let in 15 million illegals in an outrageous attempt to cement permanent political power.

You can't go take a dump in someone else's living room then ***** about how they choose to clean it up.

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Ignoring the idiotic conspiracy theory, do federal agents have an obligation to follow the Constitution?

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I love how Sapper try's to waive away well established facts by calling them "idiotic conspiracy theories."

Please educate me professor, why did the Biden administration open up the floodgates on immigration if it wasn't to increase political power? What do you think their reasoning was? I'm all ears.

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Sapper is a good man. And served our country. I respect him.

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This guy served in the army as well. Here's a picture from his West Point graduation

Serving in the army does not make one a "good man"

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That guy never made it to a unit. I have an A&M degree and led men in combat. But I'm glad to know where I fit in your worldview because I lean slightly to the left.

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Slightly??? Oh, boy...

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Yep. You may want to get out of your bubble.

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I totally get this as a guy who is slightly right of moderate

Quote:

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slighlty

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Okay, Sapper. Please tell me where you think the left has gone to far

Silent For Too Long said:

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Quote:

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slighlty

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Okay, Sapper. Please tell me where you think the left has gone to far

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Well, you know the left can't go too far. Only slightly.

The bottom line is that they have/are breaking the law. You have to enforce existing laws or you get anarchy.

Can the right go too far? I'm not for open borders. I'm for deporting people that break the rules. But some of the actions I've seen from ICE are nothing but poor training, inhumane, incompetent, unconstitutional or frankly looking to start a riot.

Does ice need a warrant to come into a home?

Aggrad08 said:

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Can the right go too far? I'm not for open borders. I'm for deporting people that break the rules. But some of the actions I've seen from ICE are nothing but poor training, inhumane, incompetent, unconstitutional or frankly looking to start a riot.

Does ice need a warrant to come into a home?

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I don't know what you're talking about specifically. When I see some version of "I want to enforce immigration law, but ICE is misbehaving in some fashion", when you get down to it, just means you don't want to do the stuff you have to do to enforce immigration law given the circumstances. I don't know what the rules are but I think if there's a removal order for someone, ICE should be able to enter "their home" to arrest and deport them.

Maybe in a world where no one is trying to frustrate our ability to enforce immigration law. The media, activist judges, and organized anti-immigration enforcement from agitators, we could do things quietly and efficiently. How do you confirm someone's identity to ensure they're the guy with the removal order without detaining them first? And if they're not the guy, all of a sudden we've violated their constitutional rights and the news story is ICE is indiscriminately arresting people. Turns out the guy lives with 2 illegals with felony convictions or something.

Immigration ends up being impracticable, and we just default to unfettered illegal immigration.

You just scream "muh rights, muh rights", while the rest of us want to live in a nice country, and not have to contend with cultures antithetical to our own for our children's hearts and minds. I want a right to that.

Before I send you anything, does it even matter to you?

Aggrad08 said:

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Can the right go too far? I'm not for open borders. I'm for deporting people that break the rules. But some of the actions I've seen from ICE are nothing but poor training, inhumane, incompetent, unconstitutional or frankly looking to start a riot.

Does ice need a warrant to come into a home?

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ICE is trying to start a riot?

Aggrad08 said:

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Before I send you anything, does it even matter to you?

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If you're over the age of 7 you should realize you can make the constitution say whatever you want it to say.

Take the 14th amendment for example.

What exactly do you "have to do". Let's start with that. Do you think the rules are important?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d

Aggrad08 said:

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Before I send you anything, does it even matter to you?

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If you have proof just post it.

Severian the Torturer said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Before I send you anything, does it even matter to you?

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If you're over the age of 7 you should realize you can make the constitution say whatever you want it to say.

Take the 14th amendment for example.

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Exactly. You say due process. I say, what's that? You think it means a trial by jury or whatever you want it to mean. I say it doesn't mean that. You cite to some SCOTUS ruling. I say that ruling doesn't apply or is itself unconstitutional. There's only justice and injustice. They have to tell me where there's an injustice. And that's a whole other conversation.

It comes down to, do you want the illegals to live here with impunity, or not?

Aggrad08 said:

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What exactly do you "have to do". Let's start with that. Do you think the rules are important?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d

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Yes. Rules are important. And if you use the rules to make it impossible to enforce the rules, then the rules are obsolete. That may be where things stand.

Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What exactly do you "have to do". Let's start with that. Do you think the rules are important?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d

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Yes. Rules are important. And if you use the rules to make it impossible to enforce the rules, then the rules are obsolete. That may be where things stand.

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Is the need for a judicial warrant something new and a different obstruction in the process of law enforcement or something you've known about since you were a child that protects citizens and yet still allows law enforcement to function

https://ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2025/11/19/video-shows-ice-agents-pointing-guns--forcing-entry-into-queens-home

Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What exactly do you "have to do". Let's start with that. Do you think the rules are important?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d

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Yes. Rules are important. And if you use the rules to make it impossible to enforce the rules, then the rules are obsolete. That may be where things stand.

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Is the need for a judicial warrant something new and a different obstruction in the process of law enforcement or something you've known about since you were a child that protects citizens and yet still allows law enforcement to function

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I think immigration courts are a function of the executive, not the judicial, so I don't see why that would be controversial. Due process doesn't look the same in immigration proceedings.

What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

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What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

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Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

Aggrad08 said:

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Before I send you anything, does it even matter to you?

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Sure it does. I think I am pretty level headed. Do you?

Catch up

Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

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What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

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Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

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What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

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What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

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Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

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What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

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That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

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What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

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Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

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What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

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That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

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Don't fight the hypothetical. If that's the alternative, then what should we do?