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They cannot have taken church traditions seriously or they would be Orthodox or Catholic. The entire rift of Protestantism was because 1. bad people in the church were doing bad things, 2. Luther's understanding of scripture didn't mesh with the historical witness of the church.

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So much wrong with that.

First, they couldn't be Catholic. Luther wanted to remain Catholic but the RCC kicked him out. The early Reformers also reached out to the EO but were rejected.

Second, based on your statement, the RCC must not be taking traditions seriously or they would be Orthodox.

Finally, taking traditions seriously is not the same thing as viewing traditions as authoritative. You conflate the two concepts.

KingofHazor said:

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Quote:

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They cannot have taken church traditions seriously or they would be Orthodox or Catholic. The entire rift of Protestantism was because 1. bad people in the church were doing bad things, 2. Luther's understanding of scripture didn't mesh with the historical witness of the church.

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So much wrong with that.

First, they couldn't be Catholic. Luther wanted to remain Catholic but the RCC kicked him out. The early Reformers also reached out to the EO but were rejected.

Second, based on your statement, the RCC must not be taking traditions seriously or they would be Orthodox.

Finally, taking traditions seriously is not the same thing as viewing traditions as authoritative. You conflate the two concepts.

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It's like wanting to be a Vegan and eating meat. There are expectations with being Catholic and Orthodox, if you don't agree to the belief systems, why would you want to be a member?

The RCC is Orthodox. The Orthodox are Catholic. Welcome to the redpill.

Tradition is the pillar and buttress of the church. It illuminates and explains scripture.

Severian the Torturer said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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I have a protestant friend who says I shouldn't do good works. Why? Because then I could boast about them. I explained to him that in the Catholic Church, Jesus is the vine and we are His branches, so the good works I do are really Jesus working through me. He still said I shouldn't do them.

I was reminded of the words of Jesus...John 10:32
Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?"

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I don't actually believe this story. You seemingly have unending "protestant friends" for every example you want to make to show whatever strawman you want to make about Protestantism.

But, lets see what Luther says. He in fact coined the term "anti-nomianism" which was the very view that if I have faith, then I I don't have to do good works:

Antinomianism - Wikipedia

Luther in his preface to Romans:

" a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever ... Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!"

The issue that I see most often is that Rome either willfully or not misunderstands the entire argument.

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Would you please for context also include the part where he says to "sin boldly"

I'll hang up and listen

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Please enlighten us all with the context of who Luther was talking to and what the issues were.

Or are you the kind of person who just looks for surface-level claims that fall apart immediately at the mildest scrutiny?

AgLiving06 said:

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Severian the Torturer said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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I have a protestant friend who says I shouldn't do good works. Why? Because then I could boast about them. I explained to him that in the Catholic Church, Jesus is the vine and we are His branches, so the good works I do are really Jesus working through me. He still said I shouldn't do them.

I was reminded of the words of Jesus...John 10:32
Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?"

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I don't actually believe this story. You seemingly have unending "protestant friends" for every example you want to make to show whatever strawman you want to make about Protestantism.

But, lets see what Luther says. He in fact coined the term "anti-nomianism" which was the very view that if I have faith, then I I don't have to do good works:

Antinomianism - Wikipedia

Luther in his preface to Romans:

" a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn't stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever ... Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!"

The issue that I see most often is that Rome either willfully or not misunderstands the entire argument.

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Would you please for context also include the part where he says to "sin boldly"

I'll hang up and listen

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Please enlighten us all with the context of who Luther was talking to and what the issues were.

Or are you the kind of person who just looks for surface-level claims that fall apart immediately at the mildest scrutiny?

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I'm the kind of person that realizes a spiritual adviser telling someone to "sin boldly" is damning regardless of context