Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

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Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

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I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

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Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

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Well, Catholics and Protestants already have a different view of grave and mortal sins to begin with so…

But yeah, I haven't seen a Protestant say you don't have to go to church? A Protestant who doesn't go to church is going to be sick and weak. At my church, we'd experience some sort of church discipline if we just stopped going for no good reason (which would be hard to find, short of bed ridden I suppose). Also, as already stated, that's where we receive communion.

You are late to the party...catholics and EO have protestants all figured out. Because they have themselves been to a bad church or have seen outlandish things from so called churches on their social media feeds, they can rightly diagnose that at the heart of Protestantism are those seeking to do the bare minimum.

Howdy, it is me! said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

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Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

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I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

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Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

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Well, Catholics and Protestants already have a different view of grave and mortal sins to begin with so…

But yeah, I haven't seen a Protestant say you don't have to go to church? A Protestant who doesn't go to church is going to be sick and weak. At my church, we'd experience some sort of church discipline if we just stopped going for no good reason (which would be hard to find, short of bed ridden I suppose). Also, as already stated, that's where we receive communion.

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Part of what splits opinion from a liturgical side is even though you do such things, church gets rearranged for holidays and family, which take precedence. Why have church on Christmas if people are with family? Let's do big Easter festivities on an off weekend since people will be with family. These are actual practices of multiple churches in my area.

Or if you're the typical middle class family, if your kid has a sporting event you won't draw a line in the sand and say no games on Sunday or practices on church nights. The vast majority do not practice such hard and fast disciplines as to put everything behind church, listening online later or picking up a podcast and just moving on.

We've had to explicitly tell extended family we'll be at all of our Easter services (we have four plus paschal feasts and festivities too) and Christmas ones (night before, day off, feast days during the twelve days of Christmas) so we can get together the weekend after, and we frequently try to attend other acna churches when we go to visit, or come back Sunday morning for service. It's caused strife since we don't skip church whenever we're with them (which is their practice, no matter the holiday). This is in a hyper evangelical area of Texas, where there are multiple Christian summer camps and staff layered into the Bible Belt and regular town culture. It just is.

The Protestants who post on here are not the average, just like the RCC or EO contingent. It's a legitimate criticism of prevalent evangelical culture, not necessarily specific to the individual.

AGC said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

---

Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

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I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

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Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

---

Well, Catholics and Protestants already have a different view of grave and mortal sins to begin with so…

But yeah, I haven't seen a Protestant say you don't have to go to church? A Protestant who doesn't go to church is going to be sick and weak. At my church, we'd experience some sort of church discipline if we just stopped going for no good reason (which would be hard to find, short of bed ridden I suppose). Also, as already stated, that's where we receive communion.

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The Protestants who post on here are not the average, just like the RCC or EO contingent. It's a legitimate criticism of prevalent evangelical culture, not necessarily specific to the individual.

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This is not classical Protestantism as it were intended. This is modern liberal Christianity-lite.

10andBOUNCE said:

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I concede the Easter egggggstravaganza point to you. Please make it stop.

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When y'all stop dropping them from helicopters we won't mention it again!

AGC said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

---

Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

---

I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

---

Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

---

Well, Catholics and Protestants already have a different view of grave and mortal sins to begin with so…

But yeah, I haven't seen a Protestant say you don't have to go to church? A Protestant who doesn't go to church is going to be sick and weak. At my church, we'd experience some sort of church discipline if we just stopped going for no good reason (which would be hard to find, short of bed ridden I suppose). Also, as already stated, that's where we receive communion.

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Part of what splits opinion from a liturgical side is even though you do such things, church gets rearranged for holidays and family, which take precedence. Why have church on Christmas if people are with family? Let's do big Easter festivities on an off weekend since people will be with family. These are actual practices of multiple churches in my area.

Or if you're the typical middle class family, if your kid has a sporting event you won't draw a line in the sand and say no games on Sunday or practices on church nights. The vast majority do not practice such hard and fast disciplines as to put everything behind church, listening online later or picking up a podcast and just moving on.

We've had to explicitly tell extended family we'll be at all of our Easter services (we have four plus paschal feasts and festivities too) and Christmas ones (night before, day off, feast days during the twelve days of Christmas) so we can get together the weekend after, and we frequently try to attend other acna churches when we go to visit, or come back Sunday morning for service. It's caused strife since we don't skip church whenever we're with them (which is their practice, no matter the holiday). This is in a hyper evangelical area of Texas, where there are multiple Christian summer camps and staff layered into the Bible Belt and regular town culture. It just is.

The Protestants who post on here are not the average, just like the RCC or EO contingent. It's a legitimate criticism of prevalent evangelical culture, not necessarily specific to the individual.

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I can honestly say my church and the people in it do not fit the description above in any way. I do realize that, sadly, this is likely not the norm. But I also think it's possible that there are a lot of people who think they are saved but likely are not.

I'll admit, I have a very strong impression that Catholics are more so by name and not by practice. I'm shocked when I hear of a catholic who regularly attends mass; I've never met one to my knowledge…so, maybe the road goes both ways.

10andBOUNCE said:

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AGC said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

---

Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

---

I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

---

Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

---

Well, Catholics and Protestants already have a different view of grave and mortal sins to begin with so…

But yeah, I haven't seen a Protestant say you don't have to go to church? A Protestant who doesn't go to church is going to be sick and weak. At my church, we'd experience some sort of church discipline if we just stopped going for no good reason (which would be hard to find, short of bed ridden I suppose). Also, as already stated, that's where we receive communion.

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The Protestants who post on here are not the average, just like the RCC or EO contingent. It's a legitimate criticism of prevalent evangelical culture, not necessarily specific to the individual.

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This is not classical Protestantism as it were intended. This is modern liberal Christianity-lite.

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Modern, yes, I think that's a key term. I'm sure many a puritan would roll over in their graves to see what we've become…

I don't understand why Protestants have to have to own all 10,000 denominations. Is it just because they were formed after the reformation that they by default get lumped together?

10andBOUNCE said:

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I don't understand why Protestants have to have to own all 10,000 denominations. Is it just because they were formed after the reformation that they by default get lumped together?

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I think this ties into the original question.

It's not that Protestants aren't serious about salvation: They are extremely serious about salvation. This seriousness is so immense that it actually pushes Protestants to optimize the means to that end.

That leads to questions like "why should i go to church" because there might be better means for that individual to maintain and develop his faith.

It also leads to thousands of denominations because if the means to the end (bringing people to the faith) can be improved then it should be done. That's obvious right?

So one person will see a relaxed sermon in jeans over coffee as the proper way of bringing people to faith. Another person might see a return to a strict Puritan-style service as the correct approach (CoC in the 19th century). Others might see minor corrections in theology as the correct approach. So a new denomination is formed.

So you have to see the OP's question within this framework of solving for the best means to an end. This is baked into the operating system.

"Protestant" is an antiquated, outdated, misrepresented, meaningless word today IMO.

There are either sheep or goats.

10andBOUNCE said:

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"Protestant" is an antiquated, outdated, misrepresented, meaningless word today IMO.

There are either sheep or goats.

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If your only meaningful distinction is saved vs unsaved then of course church form, sacrament, liturgy, apostolic continuity, etc are nonessential. Even church attendance is nonessential!

That is exactly the Protestantizing logic I am describing!

Serotonin said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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"Protestant" is an antiquated, outdated, misrepresented, meaningless word today IMO.

There are either sheep or goats.

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If your only meaningful distinction is saved vs unsaved then of course church form, sacrament, liturgy, apostolic continuity, etc are nonessential. Even church attendance is nonessential!

That is exactly the Protestantizing logic I am describing!

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I don't exactly know what the winky face is geared towards, but again, taking a statement and assuming the worst. Saved or unsaved = bare minimum and don't care about anything else.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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AGC said:

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The Protestants who post on here are not the average, just like the RCC or EO contingent. It's a legitimate criticism of prevalent evangelical culture, not necessarily specific to the individual.

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Yes and the RCC and EO have no problems at all with anyone being a "cultural Catholic". None at all. That's not a thing. Definitely only the Protestants don't take worship attendance seriously.

As it turns out, every religion, every denomination, every tradition has people who take their faith with varying levels of seriousness. This is a struggle in for everyone and has been since the dawn of time because people are sinful, lazy, and sinful, and this has not changed and will not change until the Lord comes again on the final day.

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If you want to take cultural Christians and engage them, you have to know your denomination's failings and weaknesses. This isn't a bad thread.

I argued with a friend that pastors in his Baptist church should exert their authority to tell parents not to give elementary and middle school kids phones (because it's healthier and easier than dealing with the downstream consequences) and he got super squishy about it. He's not comfortable giving pastors that much authority because he's afraid of the slippery slope. This is a Sola scriptura issue: does the Bible say they can do that, or do I get to determine my life?

That's a problem when you're worried about someone you consider Godly authority and your shepherd, actually speaking into your life. If one won't hear it from your friends, perhaps this online forum is the next best thing to help one evaluate their tradition?

That is a modern liberal christian "protestant" example.

Do you church leaders tell parents they should not let young kids like this have phones, just out of curiosity?

10andBOUNCE said:

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That is a modern liberal christian "protestant" example.

Do you church leaders tell parents they should not let young kids like this have phones, just out of curiosity?

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No, this is a 'conservative' southern Baptist example, and my friend would swear he lives a godly biblical life and submits to his pastor's authority. I have examples in his life too, which demonstrate he does when exercised, but I thought it odd that this was a bridge too far (the pastor is also an LPC, so he should be a great person to defer to on this).

Our congregation is self selecting: the priests don't have to, because we're largely homeschooled or at the parish school which shares the culture. Most non-parish kids leave by late middle or upper school, so there's no peer pressure to have one. If you have a phone you'll be the weird kid: we're here if you want high church Anglicanism in our area, but people don't seek us out because it's not what most Protestants or evangelicals crave, and they largely don't have an issue with cultural norms like cellphones for kids.

Edit: to incorporate the post above, that's why we're not sought out, too. Eucharist is what all the worship builds to and it would be empty to not have it.

Serotonin said:

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The argument keeps getting reframed into side issues like who takes church more seriously, who has more committed members, etc.

I'm not arguing any of that...I'm arguing that most Protestants (classical and modern) understand the purpose of church very differently from EO/RCC, and that this difference naturally leads to things like new denominations and liturgies as well as questions like "Do I really need to go to church?"

Do you disagree with that?

For example, would most Protestants say that the purpose of church service is that the bread and wine are changed by the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of Christ, so that the people of God may commune and be united with Him?

.

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Well.. I'm Lutheran, so .. yes, the protestants I go to church with would say that.

And also, if the RCC is better at communicating "do I really need to go to church", then they need to let most of Europe know (and many of my Catholic friends)

My protestant church would say a major purpose of the church (not THE purpose) is administering the sacrament of the Lord's Supper that is taken weekly. While we do not agree of it being the actual blood and flesh of Christ, we would say it spiritually is.

Do other protestant churches (of which I have nothing to do with) have this same focus? Probably not since they are all modern and liberal.

Thank you for your discourse, it is more than fair.

AGC said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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That is a modern liberal christian "protestant" example.

Do you church leaders tell parents they should not let young kids like this have phones, just out of curiosity?

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No, this is a 'conservative' southern Baptist example, and my friend would swear he lives a godly biblical life and submits to his pastor's authority. I have examples in his life too, which demonstrate he does when exercised, but I thought it odd that this was a bridge too far (the pastor is also an LPC, so he should be a great person to defer to on this).

Our congregation is self selecting: the priests don't have to, because we're largely homeschooled or at the parish school which shares the culture. Most non-parish kids leave by late middle or upper school, so there's no peer pressure to have one. If you have a phone you'll be the weird kid: we're here if you want high church Anglicanism in our area, but people don't seek us out because it's not what most Protestants or evangelicals crave, and they largely don't have an issue with cultural norms like cellphones for kids.

Edit: to incorporate the post above, that's why we're not sought out, too. Eucharist is what all the worship builds to and it would be empty to not have it.

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I would say you're getting "conservative" mixed up with our political definitions and not as it relates to how Protestantism was started and the progressive path most churches have followed. I am not even saying the church I am part of is immune to this idea, but a big part of my point is that there is a clear progressive/liberal path which is really at the heart of so many denominations being born. Southern Baptist is no different. Today's Southern Baptist church looks nothing like it did in the early post reformation period or even in early Puritan America. Beyond basic church liturgy, the doctrine has morphed extensively as well.

Furthermore, I would say there needs to be...

1. Classical Protestant denominations that came as a result of the Protestant Reformation...these would be largely based upon the teachings of Luther and/or other early Reformers (Calvin, etc.)

2. Progressive Christian denominations would further be evolved away from the Classical Protestants and into a group that does not affirm the Calvinistic leanings of what was the predominant Protestant early on or other earlier foundations of Luther.

I am just kind of spit balling with all of these, but I refuse to be lumped into a broad "Protestant" group when I likely share very little with them and many of them today don't even know anything about the Protestant Reformation.

Christ is Risen!
As long as people can motte and bailey Protestants this conversation goes nowhere. It's too easy to say "you can't say that about Protestants" and retreat to "well, you can say it about those Protestants but in my church…"

this is the whole issue. each sect agrees with what the think is unimportant and separates on what they think isn't. there is no requirement for dogmatic or theological rigor, so you just get "well saved or not" (nevermind Protestants don't agree on what that means, either)

Captain Pablo said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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I feel like I am a good enough Christian and person to not need to spend time at church every week. I think it's been over 20 years since I've been to a church for just the weekly service.

---

Why do you have to go to church?

Catholic: because the Eucharist, and because you are told too.

Protestant: You don't "have" to go

Next thread

---

I'm "protestant". And yes you have to go because you're told to and to take communion.

---

Really? A Catholic playing hookie is a grave matter, and commits mortal sin

What does your church say about skipping Sunday service? I mean, how bad is it? What are the consequences?

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We tell the truth that habitually skipping church is a sin, it is forsaking the assembly. If you are skipping church for no good reason(a good reason being you're sick or something) its a sin. We try to encourage folks to do what's right. If it becomes a problem we will probably go with a positive approach of the elders, and or the preacher paying you a visit, encouraging you to come.

LOL only on this board would it turn into the Catholics dogging other people for not really being a part of the Lord's church.

Zobel said:

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If you believe in once saved always saved, after you're saved, why does it matter if you go to church or not?

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I do not think church attendance has anything to do with my salvation. But as a born again Christian, I like to go to church.

Zobel said:

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If you believe in once saved always saved, after you're saved, why does it matter if you go to church or not?

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If you are truly saved you will want to do the things that please the Lord. If you are looking for the bare minimum, you likely never were saved.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Zobel said:

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If you believe in once saved always saved, after you're saved, why does it matter if you go to church or not?

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If you are truly saved you will want to do the things that please the Lord. If you are looking for the bare minimum, you likely never were saved.

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So we tell the OP he needs to get saved, right? If he was saved already, he never would have made this OP under this thought process.

I don't know the OP's heart. The fact he is asking seems like there may be something there. I am glad I am not the judge. But yeah, if you have no cares at all for being around God's people then you likely won't enjoy heaven.

10andBOUNCE said:

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Zobel said:

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If you believe in once saved always saved, after you're saved, why does it matter if you go to church or not?

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If you are truly saved you will want to do the things that please the Lord. If you are looking for the bare minimum, you likely never were saved.

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So schroedinger's assurance

But further. If you're saved why does it matter if you do or don't do the things that please God? You're saved. End of discussion.