Ag with kids said:

---

Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

That may be the diplomatic and pragmatic way to do it.

Not in NATO for the politics, but effectively in NATO for the defense...

---

No way Russia tolerates that.

Putin has said multiple times that's a Red line.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

That may be the diplomatic and pragmatic way to do it.

Not in NATO for the politics, but effectively in NATO for the defense...

---

No way Russia tolerates that.

Putin has said multiple times that's a Red line.

---

They don't join NATO in this scenario.

That's his "red line".

Doing the above effectively achieves the same thing AND allows Putin to "save face".

But, Putin isn't going to do squat if Ukraine joins NATO. Other than bluster.

He's not going nuclear because then his nice cushy life ends about 15-45 min later.

pagerman @ work said:

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Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

Why?

Why do you care if Russians and Ukrainians want to kill each other?

---

I don't but our involvement has to end immediately. Sending money for that **** show is just idiotic.

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

That may be the diplomatic and pragmatic way to do it.

Not in NATO for the politics, but effectively in NATO for the defense...

---

No way Russia tolerates that.

Putin has said multiple times that's a Red line.

---

It's not his call.

And it's always very interesting to see which posters are more concerned with what Putin wants than American foreign policy.

annie88 said:

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Teslag said:

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Trump was the first to authorize lethal aid for Ukraine. He also gave Speaker Johnson the green light on the latest aid package. Trump also loves american businesses, which includes the MIC.

Zelensky will be fine and well funded going forward.

---

Remember when Trump was president and he worked with Zelenskyy on a few things and the left called him a horrible human being and that Trump was working with a bad guy. Then all of a sudden he became a hero with the left.

I remember it.

It's funny how some of the left targets become heroes when they go against Trump or the Republicans.

---

And right is now using the very same left talking points about Zelensky literally in this thread. Except they're now also Russian talking points as well.

DannyDuberstein said:

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They need to figure out where the donbas line needs to be drawn and end this nonsense

---

That's easy. Exactly where it was drawn between 2 sovereign countries before an illegal invasion to grab very important natural resources.

annie88 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Trump was the first to authorize lethal aid for Ukraine. He also gave Speaker Johnson the green light on the latest aid package. Trump also loves american businesses, which includes the MIC.

Zelensky will be fine and well funded going forward.

---

Remember when Trump was president and he worked with Zelenskyy on a few things and the left called him a horrible human being and that Trump was working with a bad guy. Then all of a sudden he became a hero with the left.

I remember it.

It's funny how some of the left targets become heroes when they go against Trump or the Republicans.

---

The left never said Zelensky was a bad guy. They tried to say Trump was because he supposedly tried to tie weapons deliveries to investigating Joe Biden, but they never said anything about Zelensky.

AgLA06 said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

That may be the diplomatic and pragmatic way to do it.

Not in NATO for the politics, but effectively in NATO for the defense...

---

No way Russia tolerates that.

Putin has said multiple times that's a Red line.

---

It's not his call.

And it's always very interesting to see which posters are more concerned with what Putin wants than American foreign policy.

---

"Interesting," yes. Surprising, no.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Redassag94 said:

---

The war has to come to a close. And both sides might not be happy. Ukraine will give up some land, but in return they will have a defense pact with NATO without becoming a member of NATO. Russia won't like the defense pact, but they will gain territory which is occupied mostly by Russians.

---

That may be the diplomatic and pragmatic way to do it.

Not in NATO for the politics, but effectively in NATO for the defense...

---

No way Russia tolerates that.

Putin has said multiple times that's a Red line.

---

Well, if this is actually about ending the war and compromise Rusia will.

Viable Options:

• Pre-war borders and no NATO
• An actual compromise of territory (split eastern Ukraine and Crimea) and NATO or definitive defense agreements from all NATO countries for Ukraine

Those are the viable options to end the war without further fighting. Fools will again make excuses and justifications when Russia will agree to none of them.

Arguing for current borders and no NATO immediately tells anyone this isn't about ending the war or actual compromise between the 2 countries as it only favors 1 of them. The one stuck in an illegal invasion.

RAB87 said:

---

Not another dime to Ukraine. We need decades of fiscal correction to put Americans first.

---

You are proposing American Isolationism when you are espousing "America First". America First does not necessarily correlate with prioritizing what is best for Americans. It's nothing more than an extremist take on foreign policy. It had different buzz words the last 2 times it failed America.

Neutrality that resulted in WW1.(32ok American casualties)

American Isolationism that resulted in WW2. (1,078,594 American casualties)

RAB87 said:

---

Not another dime to Ukraine. We need decades of fiscal correction to put Americans first.

---

Then you are contradicting yourself.

Pulling our arms support for Ukraine means Putin keeps the majority of their oil and gas. A large portion of their grain capability to feed the world. And most of the precious metals both the US and Europe need. Giving that control to Russia is about an idiotic and hurtful to America as it gets. And it will lead to American blood eventually if that mistake is made.

And by your logic means not another dime to Israel or any other country outside of America. Or America first is just completely BS.

AgLA06 said:

---

DannyDuberstein said:

---

They need to figure out where the donbas line needs to be drawn and end this nonsense

---

That's easy. Exactly where it was drawn between 2 sovereign countries before an illegal invasion to grab very important natural resources.

---

Well, then keep on sending thousands of Ukranians to their death because Russia is not ever being pushed back behind that line. No skin off your back or Zelensky's or anyone else who wants to see it continue. So many people are happy to keep sending men to a pointless death. Lines are drawn and redrawn throughout history. And these former Soviet states are a particularly tricky scenario. At some point reality has to set in

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

---

Lol, I'm guessing you don't win many arguments, except maybe against those who are easily intimidated by two-bit insults and walls of text you copied and pasted. It's really simple.

You stated, "The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA."

Russia controls the Donbas region, where we will agree there are significant petroleum deposits. These petroleum deposits are absolutely not of any importance whatsoever to the USA, which has its own petroleum deposits that vastly exceed those in the Ukraine. We are not only currently the largest producer in the world, but an exporter of natural gas, and the quantities are about to greatly increase under the policies of the new administration. In short, if Ukraine's petroleum resources evaporated tomorrow, it would have zero effect on the USA.

I'm sorry your forever war is about to end, you'll just have to wait until a future administration starts another one.

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

---

Lol, I'm guessing you don't win many arguments, except maybe against those who are easily intimidated by two-bit insults and walls of text you copied and pasted. It's really simple.

You stated, "The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA."

Russia controls the Donbas region, where we will agree there are significant petroleum deposits. These petroleum deposits are absolutely not of any importance whatsoever to the USA, which has its own petroleum deposits that vastly exceed those in the Ukraine. We are not only currently the largest producer in the world, but an exporter of natural gas, and the quantities are about to greatly increase under the policies of the new administration. In short, if Ukraine's petroleum resources evaporated tomorrow, it would have zero effect on the USA.

I'm sorry your forever war is about to end, you'll just have to wait until a future administration starts another one.

---

That's ignorance. It would be the same as saying OPEC doesn't matter.

America doesn't operate in a vacuum. There's only so much supply / demand globally and this now provides most of Ukraine's to Russia. Which only allows for more influence and leverage by Russia not only on the US, but other countries globally. Not to mention financial impacts on American oil and companies.

It could be the final straw that splits of India from the US. Which also means other trade / alliance requirements with Russia such as arms and militarily.

You also didn't mention the key precious metals that are even more important that you want to ceed to Russia. Those would have a lot bigger impact and are vitally important to America as well.

The key precious metals are all speculative, nobody would give a dime of financing off of "resource estimates."

Ukraine petroleum resources aren't anywhere close to OPEC.

Gig 'em!

"We want those minerals and are willing to kill however many Ukrainians it takes to get them" [/Lindsey Graham / Vladimir Putin]

The petroleum situation is a Europe problem. If it is a big enough deal, then I'm sure they would be more than willing to fund Ukraine's defense. If they aren't, then we are just being played for a sucker

Europe needs to (a) raise its birth rates, (b) (re-)start using cheap Russian nat. Gas, (c) secure it's borders, and (d) build small modular nuke plants, all four together, asap. If it does that, it will be fine.

If it keeps having some sort of Soros-induced fit about 'green energy' and 'Ukraine' it won't be. Wasting money on $8K 155mm shells to 'kill Russians' is not helping the people of Europe. There are very few smart political ledes in Europe who want to see it have a bright future, imho.

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

---

..and with all those assets and resources, before the war started, the poorest country in Eastern Europe.

The Ukranian argument is like watching the same dumbasses pitch WMD in Iraq. Utter industrial military complex pimping nonsense.

And a couple of trillion later, what do we have there? A puppet of Iran. But all of those petroleum reserves and all that American interest that just had to be protected. It's a bunch of bull**** being sold, and if it isn't, Europe should step up

Lindsey Graham will have an issue with this.

Who wants to guess who the first RINO is going to whine? I will go with Lindsey

For sure. Lindsey needs to get back in that closet wearing his momma's panties and let the rational folks take back over.

PA24 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

---

..and with all those assets and resources, before the war started, the poorest country in Eastern Europe.

---

That tends to happen when you're one of the last to remove Russian ways. It's not a coincidence Russia invaded the year they launched their independent national resource plan.

AgLA06 said:

---

PA24 said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

Flavius Agximus said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

---

This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

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That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

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Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

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You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

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My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

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..and with all those assets and resources, before the war started, the poorest country in Eastern Europe.

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That tends to happen when you're one of the last to remove Russian ways. It's not a coincidence Russia invaded the year they launched their independent national resource plan.

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Russia knew that an EU aligned Ukraine would rival and perhaps eventually supplant them as primary energy source for Europe and they'd be screwed.

AgLA06 said:

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PA24 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Flavius Agximus said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Flavius Agximus said:

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AgLA06 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Trump is not isolationist. He just doesn't like fighting stupid pointless forever wars that don't need to be fought out of weakness and indecisiveness.

He's already said that hostilities will have to cease and serious negotiations take place to end the war in pragmatic terms. Ukraine will have to be willing to bargain territory and Russia will have to be serious or Trump might actually give Ukraine a flood of resources they can begin to win decisively with.

No more just feeding cash and men into a pointless waste. I hope he follows through and forces a real decisive end to it.

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This is how I see it going as well.

Fact is the war is at a point where it's a standstill for both sides, even with the North Koreans thrown in as fodder. Putin won't get Ukraine, and Zalensky won't get back what Putin has taken, but it will be over.

Plus, once it's over and done with, the American companies can swoop into Ukraine and get wealthy beyond belief with all the rebuilding that will be done.

I can see Ukraine looking amazing compared to how it was even before the invasion. As a plus, I think Ukraine will be let into NATO, and in the end, while Putin did take some land, he also helped Ukraine rebuild itself into something better and helped it get into NATO.

Fair enough for me,

---

Just one problem with that. The parts Russia now controls are the parts of Ukraine that are vitally important to the USA and Europe for a wide variety of natural resources. Giving that control to Russia is like giving Iraq or Saudi oil to Iran. And people chearlead it without a clue.

---

That's just propaganda. The only resources Ukraine has that are vitally important to the US are its ability to launder money for our political class.

---

Perfect example of tinfoil hat fantasy by the far right that makes intelligent conversation impossible.

---

You make a provably false statement about resources in the Ukraine being of vital importance to the US, and I'm the tinfoil hat conspiracist? Fight your forever war with someone else's money, neocon.

---

My suggestion is to educate yourself. Lashing out at others because of ignorance is a bad look.

"Russia's seizure of Crimea in 2014 and much of the rest of Ukraine's Black Sea coast this year means that Moscow now has control over an estimated 80 percent of Ukraine's massive offshore hydrocarbon deposits, including over 37 billion cubic meters of natural gas."

"In 2021, Ukraine supplied 12 percent of global wheat, 16 percent of all corn, 18 percent of all barley, and almost half of the world's supply of sunflower seed and safflower oilwith all agricultural exports totaling almost $28 billion, much of it to developing countries like India, Indonesia, Egypt, Ethiopia, Turkey, and Yemen. Around 55 percent of Ukrainian wheat was exported to Asia and 40 percent to Africa."

"Russia may also be eyeing Ukraine's rare earth metals, believed to be the largest recoverable supply of these increasingly critical resources in Europe. Probable but unconfirmed reserves of lithiuma crucial input in electric vehicle battery productioncould also be the largest in Europe. Geographically, most rare earth depositsincluding substantial ones of beryllium, niobium, and tantalumappear to be concentrated in Kruta Balka in Zaporizhzhia, Shevchenko in Donetsk, and the Polokhivske fields in Dobraall of which are in or near the Russian-occupied zones."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/28/ukraine-war-russia-resources-energy-oil-gas-commodities-agriculture/

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/foreign-policy-media-bias

---

..and with all those assets and resources, before the war started, the poorest country in Eastern Europe.

---

That tends to happen when you're one of the last to remove Russian ways. It's not a coincidence Russia invaded the year they launched their independent national resource plan.

---

That and you finally get free from the last vestiges of Soviet influence. The ties that kept Ukraine under Russia's thumb didn't just disappear when the Soviet Union fell. All of the apparatuses that ran things kept going. All the people stayed. All of their stooges and their networks were still there throughout the government and then industry. All it took for Russia was bribes and kickbacks, which they'd already engrained into the culture through communism.

About right.

Yeah https://t.co/GCWISUZiN4

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) November 9, 2024

Not sure Zelensky really did this:

Zelenskyy’s rejection is no impediment to ejecting all US aid and support.

Let them dig their heels in, but hightail it out of there for the sake of Americans.

No more senseless debt and nuclear brinksmanship with Russia.

— Dave Benner, Nemesis of Neocons (@dbenner83) November 8, 2024

LOL, this is true:

Germany and the EU shot themselves in the foot.
They lost their cheap energy source with Russia.

They can't make goods with high costs.
Look at Volksagen, 3 plants closed and 10,000 workers fired.

ALL of the EU is now saddled with high energy costs.
They all wanted Ukraines $$$… pic.twitter.com/r6IkqTxwOq

— floridanow1 (@floridanow1) November 8, 2024

Seems to be two similar threads about the Ukraine situation with Trump coming into office. I have a hard time believing Trump will just cut off all aid to Ukraine as much as some seem to wish for it. They'll continue to get weapons, and it might even get better for Ukraine if he wants to send Putin a message. You'll likely see monetary aid come to a screeching halt or done in the form of loans of some sort.

🇺🇦🇺🇸 DONALD TRUMP JUNIOR POSTED THIS

BASED AHAHAHAHA pic.twitter.com/8dLtfpBsJe

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) November 10, 2024

DJT will be UN-“spurned” as soon as the endless US Taxpayer dollars go away. https://t.co/fMC4MjM8Qw

— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) November 9, 2024

nortex97 said:

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🇺🇦🇺🇸 DONALD TRUMP JUNIOR POSTED THIS

BASED AHAHAHAHA pic.twitter.com/8dLtfpBsJe

— Lord Bebo (@MyLordBebo) November 10, 2024

DJT will be UN-“spurned” as soon as the endless US Taxpayer dollars go away. https://t.co/fMC4MjM8Qw

— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) November 9, 2024

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Called it.