Teslag said:

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Artorias said:

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B-1 83 said:

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On the contrary, I'm showing off 60+ years of being raised by a dad who is a veteran of 3 wars and studied Russia and Russian mentality for years. Any capitulation to Russian is in Putin's favor and strengthens Russia. Sorry your world view is so narrow and short sighted due to what ever "education" you received.

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So are you willing to put US soldiers on the ground in Ukraine? Because that is the only way UKE is getting the land back, and it will end up with dead US soldiers. Maybe your kids can be on the front lines of fighting against the "capitulation".

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B1 never said we should support Ukraine until they "get their land back". That's not happening. But Russia will have to give up on getting of Ukraine like they set out to do.

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"Any capitulation" pretty clearly implies giving Putin the land they have taken control of.

BlueTaze said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Gaeilge said:

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ELON MUSK JOINED TRUMP'S CALL WITH ZELENSKY - AXIOS.

— FinancialJuice (@financialjuice) November 8, 2024

Oh...and Elon was on the call as well. I'm thinking this call consisted of "You're not going to see another dime and you better be ready to sit your ass down."

Your thoughts?

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Do people really think Trump will cut Ukraine off?
Bwahahahahahaha……get ready to be seriously disappointed. He's not letting Putin have all of Ukraine. Fortunately, he smarter than the TexAgs Putin lovers.

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What makes you think Putin wants "all of Ukraine"?

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Probably because he set out that idea in his essay and justification for this war at the onset. They initially tried to capture Kiev and do just that. But they failed.

aggiehawg said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Not happening.

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More than likely happening. There's not really anything Putin can do to stop that. It also freezes the lines there in perpetuity.

Never to be paid back

Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Agreed other than Ukraine in NATO, and the rest is everything we have been wanting this whole time. We as in people that have wanted to stop funding Ukraine for quite some time, though it is good to see you have somewhat changed your tune a little bit for the better .

Ukraine in NATO is close to a non-starter though and a pipe dream for those that are too emotionally against Russia. It's not realistic and will only create more war in the future.

Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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WSJ reported the first draft of Trump peace deal has already been circulated. Does most of what you list but Ukraine must delay any NATO aspirations at least 20 years.

Lot of undeveloped oil potential in that area is my understanding. Putin won't want to give it up and Trump won't want him to have it

This is going to be much stickier than the Middle East conflict imo

Teslag said:

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A lot of posters on this board will be very disappointed when Trump continues aid.


Remember, he was the first to give them lethal aid, and gave Speaker the Johnson the go head on the last aid package that was passed.

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Continue to give them aid but bring the conflict to an end. Let Russia carve out the sliver they're butthurt about and negotiate a peace treaty.

As is stands right now our policy is to give money blindly and not demand anything in return by either side. Foolish.

Tea Party said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Trump is stuck with this for a while. He can't simply cut Ukraine off cold.

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Yes he can and yes he should.

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Stick to your day job. International relations are clearly not your forte.

How does Ukraine in NATO start more war? It does exactly the opposite.

Putin has shown he is always fine waiting and taking more bites at the apple later. How do we prevent that, even after trump leaves office?

"Yes, this is President Trump..........along with Elon Musk. Ok, give it up. We know what y'all are doing in Ukraine. It's over."

aggiehawg said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Not happening.

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Agree......It is the "red line", so to speak.......for the Russians.

Quote:

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though it is good to see you have somewhat changed your tune a little bit for the better

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But I haven't. You can go back and look at my posting over the past 18 or so months and see that I've been consistently saying this war is in now frozen largely along current lines and the best thing to do is get both sides to agree and recognize that.

Teslag said:

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How does Ukraine in NATO start more war? It does exactly the opposite.

Putin has shown he is always fine waiting and taking more bites at the apple later. How do we prevent that, even after trump leaves office?

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How is throwing sand in your supposed enemies eye not going to instigate future consequences?

You are advocating for backing a wounded animal into the corner rather than talk things down peacefully.

And did Putin take any bites at the apple with Trump in office? Why should we expect him to take more bites at the apple when DeSantis or Vance is in office in 4 years? Putin may not even be a major player in Russia at that point and we all know Russia is no where near as strong as they think they are.

And regarding your change in tune I'm referring to the reduction or elimination of funding to Ukraine with the hopes of a peace deal. You have NOT been advocating for peace and have been very vocal about giving Ukraine as much money as they need so you can get your dead Russian fix. You changing that tune to what the rest of us have been saying, let Ukraine give up the land taken so far so peace can happen, is a good change you are making.

Viper16 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Not happening.

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Agree......It is the "red line", so to speak.......for the Russians.

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The Russians have repeated many "red lines" and they have shown to be repeatedly full of ***** Russia has no ability to really do anything about it other than nukes and they aren't sacrificing every man women and child in their country in a nuclear holocaust for Ukraine in NATO.

Tea Party said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Agreed other than Ukraine in NATO, and the rest is everything we have been wanting this whole time. We as in people that have wanted to stop funding Ukraine for quite some time, though it is good to see you have somewhat changed your tune a little bit for the better .

Ukraine in NATO is close to a non-starter though and a pipe dream for those that are too emotionally against Russia. It's not realistic and will only create more war in the future.

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Ukraine in NATO is a very bad idea. As on old Cold Warrior I was a student of Russian and Soviet history. They are notoriously paranoid and further surrounding them is not going to work out well. In fact, during the Cold War, they always depicted the Soviet Union on a polar projection map to demonstrate how they were surrounded by their enemies.

Quote:

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And did Putin take any bites at the apple with Trump in office?

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Yes, in Syria via Wagner. Even directly engaged US forces.

Quote:

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They are notoriously paranoid and further surrounding them is not going to work out well.

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And yet, they did just this by having Finland and Sweden now join NATO over the past year as a result of this war. Finland in NATO was another of their supposed "red lines".

BlueTaze said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Gaeilge said:

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ELON MUSK JOINED TRUMP'S CALL WITH ZELENSKY - AXIOS.

— FinancialJuice (@financialjuice) November 8, 2024

Oh...and Elon was on the call as well. I'm thinking this call consisted of "You're not going to see another dime and you better be ready to sit your ass down."

Your thoughts?

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Do people really think Trump will cut Ukraine off?
Bwahahahahahaha……get ready to be seriously disappointed. He's not letting Putin have all of Ukraine. Fortunately, he smarter than the TexAgs Putin lovers.

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What makes you think Putin wants "all of Ukraine"?

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Whether he wants it all or a single acre he can go **** himself. Putin is growing weaker and weaker with each passing week. His power is slowly starting to dwindle as the Russians grow more tired of seeing their boys sent to the meat grinder that is Ukraine. Keep up the pressure till Vlads plane has a tragic "accident ".

Artorias said:

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B-1 83 said:

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On the contrary, I'm showing off 60+ years of being raised by a dad who is a veteran of 3 wars and studied Russia and Russian mentality for years. Any capitulation to Russian is in Putin's favor and strengthens Russia. Sorry your world view is so narrow and short sighted due to what ever "education" you received.

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So are you willing to put US soldiers on the ground in Ukraine? Because that is the only way UKE is getting the land back, and it will end up with dead US soldiers. Maybe your kids can be on the front lines of fighting against the "capitulation", mine sure won't be.

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What knowledge also shows is with Russia you cannot threaten their borders. They are rightly paranoid of them, and no solution that ignores that concern is going to work. Biden and Kamala allowed us to be invaded, so forget the past four years, but in general, Americans never have to worry about invasion. But Russia always has -- there being a bully and scoundrel state also has alot to do with the past surroundings grew up with -- they have been both the victim and the villain. Constantly. Too many are not looking at the meddling before 2014. Russia is not imagining things entirely. They are a case of paranoid where there really are some "out to get 'em".

Now if sentiment wants to fight a war with Russia for Europe and not from any real defense need, then that is a choice. But it looks like was rejected.

Tea Party said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Agreed other than Ukraine in NATO, and the rest is everything we have been wanting this whole time. We as in people that have wanted to stop funding Ukraine for quite some time, though it is good to see you have somewhat changed your tune a little bit for the better .

Ukraine in NATO is close to a non-starter though and a pipe dream for those that are too emotionally against Russia. It's not realistic and will only create more war in the future.

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Why would it create more war? NATO membership ensures Russia doesn't try the same thing again. Putin isn't that stupid. I don't think Putin would agree to stop the war with that stipulation if he thinks we are pulling aid, though...we'd need to approach this with a big stick and threaten to escalate funding and expansion of the war if he doesn't agree to a land swap for NATO/EU membership agreement.

Putin growing weaker every week is fan fiction until proven otherwise.

Just like his cancer diagnosis and his hiding in a bunker stories

Cut the funding on Jan 20th, hope he does it, or the House stops it at least. Voters don't care about Ukraine or Russia, that is clear based on the exit polls and research.

Teslag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Teslag said:

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The hope is with Trump there isn't a NEED for more aid. The best case scenario for all involved is a negotiated peace along current lines, Ukraine in NATO, Russia gets their eastern gains, and that's it. It's over. Trump can get that deal done.

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Not happening.

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More than likely happening. There's not really anything Putin can do to stop that. It also freezes the lines there in perpetuity.

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No to NATO. Just give them their nukes back.

(GASP!!! We can't do that. Yeah, we can and we should!)

Gaeilge said:

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ELON MUSK JOINED TRUMP'S CALL WITH ZELENSKY - AXIOS.

— FinancialJuice (@financialjuice) November 8, 2024

Oh...and Elon was on the call as well. I'm thinking this call consisted of "You're not going to see another dime and you better be ready to sit your ass down."

Your thoughts?

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No way it went anything like that

I'm sure it was something like 'we support you but let's wind this thing down so we can stop spending money and getting people killed. I'll help you with Putin.'


Trump is on Zelensky side. Not Putins.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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They are notoriously paranoid and further surrounding them is not going to work out well.

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And yet, they did just this by having Finland and Sweden now join NATO over the past year as a result of this war. Finland in NATO was another of their supposed "red lines".

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Uh......not really. Russians never have had any concerns about those two countries....read: non-threatening.

Ukraine on the other hand, has always been their "red line in the sand!" Historically. History. Centuries of it.

If Kamala, and the Biden Administration had not mouthed off about bringing Ukraine into NATO, then maybe none of this would have happened....

Harris/Biden Ukaine NATO

Plenty of news reports around that time frame.

Sid Farkas said:

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Elon will be arrested, tried, convicted, sentenced under the Logan Act before all is said and done.

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Lol

Quote:

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Uh......not really. Russians never have had any concerns about those two countries....read: non-threatening.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-warns-baltic-nuclear-deployment-if-nato-admits-sweden-finland-2022-04-14/

Quote:

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LONDON, April 14 (Reuters) - One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would deploy nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles in a European exclave.

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sam callahan said:

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Putin growing weaker every week is fan fiction until proven otherwise.

Just like his cancer diagnosis and his hiding in a bunker stories

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You clearly aren't paying attention to what's going on inside Russia.

The Russians have begun to openly defy Putins call for more troops. Vast numbers of military aged males are refusing their draft notices. While simultaneously other Russians are beginning to openly protest the war. Against Putins decree outlawing such protests. A recent white paper from British intelligence services outlined how the oligarchs are quietly putting pressure on Russian military leaders to openly revolt against Vlad.

But yeah, it's fan fiction. Cute.

B-1 83 said:

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Do people really think Trump will cut Ukraine off?
Bwahahahahahaha……get ready to be seriously disappointed. He's not letting Putin have all of Ukraine. Fortunately, he smarter than the TexAgs Putin lovers.

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This war has moved far beyond the point where it serves a legitimate national interest, so I think he'll aim to end it as soon as possible.

Initially, Russia was planning to overrun all of Ukraine (bad for the US and NATO), the ukes were itching to fight, and giving them weapons was a cheap and easy way to hamstring a major geopolitical rival. But now, Ukraine's continued existence is no longer in question, we've set Russia back a decade at least (they're no longer a credible military threat to NATO), and Russia knows we can drag it out for years at enormous cost to them.

Mission accomplished. Just give them the sections of Crimea that are 90% ethnic Russian anyway and Putin will take that deal and declare victory (If he doesn't we can make this way hell for him).

All we're doing now is prolonging a humanitarian crisis for no discernable reason. End it yesterday.

Deputy Travis Junior said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Do people really think Trump will cut Ukraine off?
Bwahahahahahaha……get ready to be seriously disappointed. He's not letting Putin have all of Ukraine. Fortunately, he smarter than the TexAgs Putin lovers.

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This war has moved far beyond the point where it serves a legitimate national interest, so I think he'll aim to end it as soon as possible.

Initially, Russia was planning to overrun all of Ukraine (bad for the US and NATO), the ukes were itching to fight, and giving them weapons was a cheap and easy way to hamstring a major geopolitical rival. But now, Ukraine's continued existence is no longer in question, we've set Russia back a decade at least (they're no longer a credible military threat to NATO), and Russia knows we can drag it out for years at enormous cost to them.

Mission accomplished. Just give them the sections of Crimea that are 90% ethnic Russian anyway and Putin will take that deal and declare victory (If he doesn't we can make this way hell for him).

All we're doing now is prolonging a humanitarian crisis for no discernable reason. End it yesterday.

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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Everyone who wants the war to continue should go over there and fight.

If you're not willing to do that stfu and support the ending of this pointless war started by democrats and Kamala.

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Putin is blameless!

Trump is just consulting one of the parties for their statement of facts and requested relief before he issues his ruling. Pretty sure he has/will do the same with Putin before rendering his verdict.