Sure there are plenty of good educated people. But universities have become a 4 year left wing seminary. The model that we have to go to a 4 year college to be successful needs to be reworked and we need a complete paradigm shift from that mentality.

Retired Infantry Officer with a BS (Geog), MS (EnvSci), MA (MilHist), and Ph.D.(SafetyEng)

Nobody is demonizing a good education.

What we hate is a bad education/ leftist indoctrination camps.

The media pointing out that educated voters broke for Kamala is educated people demonizing themselves to ordinary people. Not the other way around.

Besides most of the educated people I KNOW voted Trump. I know that most educated people did not. I don't hold education against people. I hold our education system accountable for what it teaches.

Several thoughts:

* Liberal Arts is not "Fine Arts". Traditionally math and science are liberal arts

* A university education was not a vocational education until the past 100 years or so. That is, your university work was more about who you are rather than what you do. We need some of both. Probably only about 1/3 of kids going to a University should be - the rest would be better off w/ a vocational education (distinct from vocational training).

* It's been said by lots of people over lots of time, but my ME212 prof in 1974, Dr. Kettleborough, a Brit was the first place I heard it. He said that if you interview an engineer and ask about their education:

- 5 years after graduation: "Barely adequate, I needed a lot more thermo and fluid transfer, and didn't learn nearly enough numerical analysis. They didn't prepare me for my job.

20 years after graduation: "Insufficient. I needed more financial management and people management. They didn't prepare me for my career."

40 years after graduation: "Not very good I think. I wish I had more literature, art appreciation and philosophy. They didn't prepare me for my life."

Danimal said:

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People please do your homework. This country is full of good, educated people. Why are we demonizing education? This is like supporting Hamas.

People who have Ivy League degrees:

Donald Trump
JD Vance
Elon Musk
Ron DeSantis
Ted Cruz
RFK Jr.



People who do not have Ivy League degrees:

Kamala Harris
Tim Walz
Nancy Pelosi
Bernie Sanders
Elizabeth Warren
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Having a degree in gender studies or some other ridiculous crap doesn't make you educated IMHO.

Ryan the Temp said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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Ryan the Temp said:

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OdessaAg said:

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Yeah, since all of those arts, history, dance, music, and women's studies majors are WAY more intelligent…

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Why the hate for music degrees?

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ROI. If a wealthy kid wants an arts degree from a private school: whatever. But for most arts degrees have become lost time, debt, and a mostly useless credential.

And if you want to make a living off the arts the classroom is rarely the path to "making it." Unless it's one of the intensive arts schools - the classroom is often a detour taken by hobbyists who's presence in a classroom Is indicative of characteristics which won't lead to success in the field.

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As someone with a music degree, currently pursuing a higher music degree, I can't LOLZ this enough. You are completely detached from reality if you think getting a degree "won't lead to success in the field" of music. There are a lot of factors that go into success, but higher education in music absolutely contributes significant value to one's ability to be a successful musician.

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Frankly, RTT, at some point in music, and the arts in general, only the top 0.1% will make good money* doing it. Those people with unreal, God given talent.

*By good money, I'm talking a yearly salary fairly equivalent to a STEM, business, or medical career.

Aggie Infantry said:

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Retired Infantry Officer with a BS (Geog), MS (EnvSci), MA (MilHist), and Ph.D.(SafetyEng)

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That's quite the interesting mix.

Street Fighter said:

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Danimal said:

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People please do your homework. This country is full of good, educated people. Why are we demonizing education? This is like supporting Hamas.

People who have Ivy League degrees:

Donald Trump
JD Vance
Elon Musk
Ron DeSantis
Ted Cruz
RFK Jr.



People who do not have Ivy League degrees:

Kamala Harris
Tim Walz
Nancy Pelosi
Bernie Sanders
Elizabeth Warren
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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Having a degree in gender studies or some other ridiculous crap doesn't make you educated IMHO.

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Educated doesn't equal intelligent

The liberals in this country demonize those without college degrees, the 'uneducated'. They are just dumb according to them and the MSM. This is what people are making fun of.

Quote:

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* It's been said by lots of people over lots of time, but my ME212 prof in 1974, Dr. Kettleborough, a Brit was the first place I heard it. He said that if you interview an engineer and ask about their education:

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Holy crap, Cecil. This is amazing. I had Kettleborough for Numerical Analysis in 1997. Dude was oooooolllllddddd.

He could barely stand up and would erase a giant swath of the chalkboard as he leaned on it to go back to the other end of the room.

He was still sharp of mind though and loved to talk about his square dancing.

Much of the "indoctrination" that people lament at the college level comes from peers, the media and society in general.

And don't kid yourself. There are plenty of liberal people in STEM professions.

EclipseAg said:

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Much of the "indoctrination" that people lament at the college level comes from peers, the media and society in general.

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You're letting the faculty and administrators off the hook too easily, especiallythe anthropology and sociology departments. Tommy Curry, Michael Alvard, and Joe Feagin say hello (because they would never stoop to use the word howdy).

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/when-is-it-ok-to-kill-whites/

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Texas-AM-professor-arrested-during-Saturdays-protest--571251361.html

https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2019/04/24/the-case-for-african-american-reparations-explained/

Ulysses90 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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Much of the "indoctrination" that people lament at the college level comes from peers, the media and society in general.

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You're letting the faculty and administrators off the hook too easily, especiallythe anthropology and sociology departments. Tommy Curry, Michael Alvard, and Joe Feagin say hello (because they would never stoop to use the word howdy).

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/when-is-it-ok-to-kill-whites/

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Texas-AM-professor-arrested-during-Saturdays-protest--571251361.html

https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2019/04/24/the-case-for-african-american-reparations-explained/

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Tommy Curry left A&M over five years ago. As for Alvard and Feagin, every college and university has a couple of faculty whose research is considered fringe, or whose political activity raises eyebrows, but that is hardly evidence of wholesale indoctrination in the academy.

Back in the late 80s/90s Dr. Resch in the History department was a hardcore Marxist, and everyone knew that, but most who took his classes recognized that and didn't come out of his classes as Marxist faithful. If you took his classes on European Intellectual History, you simply knew what lens he was going to be using. I'm sure the same approach is used by students today with like faculty, particularly now that anyone can easily access faculty reviews online before registering for classes.

So while most faculty tend to lean left politically, they generally also care about their disciplines and recognize that there are limits on Academic Freedom that require them to only teach that which is within their area of disciplinary expertise. Academic Freedom is actually more strict than Free Speech. Faculty aren't free to simply deviate from what they are qualified to teach based upon their credentials and standards of their respective disciplines.

As noted above, the strongest influence on students during their college years are their peers, and these days whatever is trending on TikTok, in the gaming community, and whatever flavor of social media happens to be popular.

OP - What % of college profs are democrat or republican? Marxists or Constitutions'?.

Not everybody wants to be a yogi, who self proclaimed to be smarter than the average bear.

AOC can make a mean drink okay. She got smart in her hands and mouth.

oldyeller said:

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Ulysses90 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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Much of the "indoctrination" that people lament at the college level comes from peers, the media and society in general.

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You're letting the faculty and administrators off the hook too easily, especiallythe anthropology and sociology departments. Tommy Curry, Michael Alvard, and Joe Feagin say hello (because they would never stoop to use the word howdy).

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/when-is-it-ok-to-kill-whites/

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Texas-AM-professor-arrested-during-Saturdays-protest--571251361.html

https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2019/04/24/the-case-for-african-american-reparations-explained/

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Tommy Curry left A&M over five years ago. As for Alvard and Feagin, every college and university has a couple of faculty whose research is considered fringe, or whose political activity raises eyebrows, but that is hardly evidence of wholesale indoctrination in the academy.

Back in the late 80s/90s Dr. Resch in the History department was a hardcore Marxist, and everyone knew that, but most who took his classes recognized that and didn't come out of his classes as Marxist faithful. If you took his classes on European Intellectual History, you simply knew what lens he was going to be using. I'm sure the same approach is used by students today with like faculty, particularly now that anyone can easily access faculty reviews online before registering for classes.

So while most faculty tend to lean left politically, they generally also care about their disciplines and recognize that there are limits on Academic Freedom that require them to only teach that which is within their area of disciplinary expertise. Academic Freedom is actually more strict than Free Speech. Faculty aren't free to simply deviate from what they are qualified to teach based upon their credentials and standards of their respective disciplines.

As noted above, the strongest influence on students during their college years are their peers, and these days whatever is trending on TikTok, in the gaming community, and whatever flavor of social media happens to be popular.

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In the 1980s, the Marxist profs would have been quickly fired for breach of ethics if they had offered extra credit for participating in protests or political activism. Today, protests, activism, and political viewpoint is the curriculum for the anthropology and sociology departments.

Just today's example of why the elite Ivies have debased their name and curriculum to the level of communist reeducation camps.

Yale University set to teach course entirely on Beyonc and her expansive legacy

You don't even have to go searching, it just get's pushed as headlines on the default home page of Microsoft browsers.

Bingo. The Ivies used to be a glorified good ol boy network, then they went woke. Many old Ivy Leaguers want nothing to do with the current Ivy League.