Draining the swamp == restricting corporate & union political spending

2,380 Views | 41 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by B-1 83
taxpreparer
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oh no said:

end super pacs and dark money campaign contributions, disallow foreign money from US political campaign contributions, disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions

end industry and special interest lobbying,

end politicians, bureaucrats, and gov contractors' ability to trade in individual stocks and make all investments and investments by their arms length family members and LLCs and shell companies public,

disallow former politicians and bureaucrats from taking certain industry board, management, and consulting positions for a term of at least a year after leaving government,

term limits for both chambers of congress

make every contract signed and every dollar spent subject to continuous audits and, outside of national security and defense that requires some secrecy, make it very public and transparent


Agree with everything except "disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions."

If my best friend lives in another state runs for office, no one should be able to tell me i cannot support him.
LOYAL AG
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taxpreparer said:

oh no said:

end super pacs and dark money campaign contributions, disallow foreign money from US political campaign contributions, disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions

end industry and special interest lobbying,

end politicians, bureaucrats, and gov contractors' ability to trade in individual stocks and make all investments and investments by their arms length family members and LLCs and shell companies public,

disallow former politicians and bureaucrats from taking certain industry board, management, and consulting positions for a term of at least a year after leaving government,

term limits for both chambers of congress

make every contract signed and every dollar spent subject to continuous audits and, outside of national security and defense that requires some secrecy, make it very public and transparent


Agree with everything except "disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions."

If my best friend lives in another state runs for office, no one should be able to tell me i cannot support him.


This is a valid argument but I think we all know Colin Allred and Robert Francis O'Rourke don't have more friends in California than they have in Texas yet that's what we saw with the past two senate races. It's a problem when a Texas Senate candidate has more non-Texas money than Texas money.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
91AggieLawyer
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MouthBQ98 said:

Free speech applies to groups of citizens as well as individual citizens. You don't lose your right to speech just because you and someone else cooperate to present a message.

That's the basis of it.

Also, there's no requirement to be a citizen to have free speech protections under the constitution. Within our jurisdiction, it is recognized as a fundamental God given human right, and something we believe all people should have.

Yes, the issue of foreign influence on corporate speech is a problem when it is used to manipulate government policy but in my view, more speech is always preferable to speech restrictions.

The government itself should not be engaged in manipulating freedom of speech or propagandizing the population outside of perhaps patriotic messaging.


We have campaign contribution limits that are based on different factors: individual contributions, specific campaign/candidate, and national party, to name just 3. If the intent of the first amendment was to actually apply free speech and expression to campaign contributions, wouldn't there be either no limits or consistency of limits? How exactly are these limits "time, place, and/or manner" restrictions to speech that the courts over the years have said are reasonable restrictions? They have nothing to do with time and place, and manner is a bit convoluted. Manner deals with something like criminal behavior: even the most anti-crime person agrees that writing an article advocating that certain criminal behavior be legalized is protected speech. Likewise, with respect to campaign contributions, it has little to nothing to do with it.

So the question is, if this is a first amendment issue, how can it be regulated? Either there should be no campaign contribution limits because it is a FA issue and the limits aren't reasonable restrictions (see above), OR, it isn't a FA issue and, given 10th Amendment leeway, Congress can regulate. The "analysis" the Citizens United court, as well as the Buckley court it relied upon, went through is mental gymnastics, to say the least. Essentially, 1) its free speech; 2) government can't control it, except... 3) certain limits can be in place to prevent government corruption.

Like many cases, the USSC made up their mind where they wanted to go and came up with legal "reasoning" to get there. The terribly inconsistent ways we've interpreted the first amendment over the years, giving almost unlimited leeway to certain speech while restricting others (wearing of protest t-shirts in school is protected while prayer isn't, for example) at the very least leaves one to wonder.

The bottom line is that none of these decisions are any more based on the constitution than what you or I think; they're just the opinions of 5 or more justices at one time who were probably advocates of whatever policy they were writing about.
oh no
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taxpreparer said:

oh no said:

end super pacs and dark money campaign contributions, disallow foreign money from US political campaign contributions, disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions

end industry and special interest lobbying,

end politicians, bureaucrats, and gov contractors' ability to trade in individual stocks and make all investments and investments by their arms length family members and LLCs and shell companies public,

disallow former politicians and bureaucrats from taking certain industry board, management, and consulting positions for a term of at least a year after leaving government,

term limits for both chambers of congress

make every contract signed and every dollar spent subject to continuous audits and, outside of national security and defense that requires some secrecy, make it very public and transparent


Agree with everything except "disallow out of state funding for state and local political campaign contributions."

If my best friend lives in another state runs for office, no one should be able to tell me i cannot support him.
I just don't like, for example, that wealthy Californians, east coast elites and a Hungarian can buy the election of the governor of Arizona. They essentially choose who governs Arizonans for them when they don't even live in Arizona. The system just sucks for the people.
taxpreparer
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I don't disagree, but I don't have a good answer, either.
texagbeliever
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BMX Bandit said:

oh no said:

Citizens United paved the way for super PACs and unlimited campaign contributions. The result is **** like Kamala Harris spending over $1.5 billion in less than 3 months to not really say anything in her campaign. - paying celebrities like Oprah and Beyonce millions to tell low IQ useful idiots who to vote for.
how did that turn out?

Well it is also a big means of buying influence for the next few years. You pay celebrities and what not to endorse your side. You pay media and journalists (through advertisements). It is going to create some good loyalty. The election outcome isn't the only thing up for gravs.
B-1 83
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TA-OP said:

For those that support these "free speech" donations and hate George Soros, how do you reconcile your support while complaining about all the money Soros spends?
I don't. Both are free to contribute. How do you reconcile taxing such entities but not allowing them to contribute to candidates who align with their business, taxing, and political views?
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
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