TheWoodlandsTxAg said:

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47% of Americans pay zero federal income tax, and some get EITC, refundable child tax credits, and money after paying 0 federal taxes. How is it fair for someone to get a EITC, refundable child tax credits, and other credits if they have never contributed a single cent in federal income taxes ever?

This is on top of the already extremely generous Medicaid, SNAP/food stamps, TANF, WIC, public education (the US spends more per pupil that any other country), government funded community hospitals/hospital districts, and countless other government funded welfare programs that people who have never contributed one cent in federal income taxes qualify for.

During budget reconciliation, Republicans should end all payroll deductions by employers including deductions for federal income tax, SS, and Medicare. Make it illegal for employers to make payroll deductions. Make the middle class voter write the check for $40K-90K out of their account every year, and then see if they will take this issue seriously.

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Those people live paycheck to paycheck. Middle class should definitely pay less, but targeting people making less who stress over money 24/7 despite working full-time is a terrible way to do it.

But do it if you want, just ensures a 40-seat Landslide midterm again just like 2018 midterms when Trump lost so many seats. Voters will assume Dems learned their lesson on the border by then. So do all your project 2025 like you are. Unqualified cabinet nominees were just a first step. Find some more $50 million condoms or whatever other Elon lies Republican twitter believes this week. I saw many republicans online defending Medicaid a few weeks ago so even they know that's even politically toxic, so good luck staying above water in approval polls.

infinity ag said:

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I am perfectly fine with poor Americans making say, less than 20k - 30k to pay zero tax.They face the choice of food or kids school or rent. Why add tax to this burden? I am all for taxing the richer proportionally more. Why? Because the extra they pay makes no difference to them.

Example: Does Musk miss 2 billion dollars from his net worth? No, he doesn't even care or notice. But Steve the homeless guy will notice $20 that goes missing.

I personally am at a point in life where my net worth increases in bounds every month and year. I can quit employment and have 0 earned income. I would just pay for interest and dividends. Is it fair? Doesn't seem like it. But the system is there, I follow the rules, and I keep what I make.

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I completely disagree with this. EVERYONE should have to pay taxes. EVERYONE! When someone pays zero in taxes they have no skin in the game whatsoever. That is very dangerous. People tend to be far more engaged when they believe the $$$ being spent by government is paid for by them at least partially.

I also think there should be far more messaging in the media that there are actually 47% of Americans that are paying ZERO. Average Joe thinks if there's a deduction on their paycheck, they are taxpayers. Nobody is pointing out to them that the refunds and credits they are given make them net takers, and not payers.

As to your 'Is it fair?' question; hell yes it's fair. I seriously doubt your net worth was handed to you as a gift. Everyone deserves what they earn, whether it's a lot or a little. If you truly think it's unfair, what is stopping you from writing much larger checks to the IRS? Or to charity?

Far too many people think 'the rich' don't pay their 'fair share'. It's a lie. The top 10% currently pay 72% of all income taxes. The top 1% pays 40.4%. What is fair about that? Just because they have more, or don't 'feel it'?

If they took every single penny of earnings of 'the rich', let's say the top 50% of earners, it wouldn't even make a dent in the national debt. Yet the idea runs rampant that the rich don't pay their 'fair share'. We need a more inclusive tax system.

When you spend like we do, and litrerally half the people pay ZERO, you start to institutionalize the idea that we'll NEVER fix the debt. Why the hell would the people that pay ZERO ever care even one iota about how much in debt we are? "Why should I care? I'm not paying it?"

When we bought our 1st home years ago, we had a Christmas party and invited about 30 people that worked for my wife. Most of them were entry level employees who did not own homes. One of them told me 'Wow, y'all are RICH!' This was a 4 BR starter home made by KB Homes. It was a very modest home. I told him 'no way, this isn't even close to a home that a 'rich' person would live in'. It's like I was speaking another language. In their minds we WERE rich, because we had more than them. This kind of thinking is very widespread. It's what leads to the idea that some don't pay a 'fair share'. We got that house because we didn't spend $$ on going out to eat, vacations, and expensive cars. Not because we're rich.

% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

ttu_85 said:

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Even with all these taxes we have a deficit of $36T.

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Minor point, but we have a DEBT of 36 trillion.

Glad Trump is advocating no taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime, no taxes on social security benefits, and extending the Trump tax cuts, which go primarily to the very wealthy. Certainly our debt will go down with these measures.

pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

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I agree. I've always advocated raising taxes on the impoverished.

As a Christian, I ask myself who Jesus would raise taxes on and I always come back to one answer: the poor.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

I agree. I've always advocated raising taxes on the impoverished.

As a Christian, I ask myself who Jesus would raise taxes on and I always come back to one answer: the poor.

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That's fine but then they don't get to vote on people that decide our tax rates.

TheWoodlandsTxAg said:

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47% of Americans pay zero federal income tax, and some get EITC, refundable child tax credits, and money after paying 0 federal taxes. How is it fair for someone to get a EITC, refundable child tax credits, and other credits if they have never contributed a single cent in federal income taxes ever?

This is on top of the already extremely generous Medicaid, SNAP/food stamps, TANF, WIC, public education (the US spends more per pupil that any other country), government funded community hospitals/hospital districts, and countless other government funded welfare programs that people who have never contributed one cent in federal income taxes qualify for.

During budget reconciliation, Republicans should end all payroll deductions by employers including deductions for federal income tax, SS, and Medicare. Make it illegal for employers to make payroll deductions. Make the middle class voter write the check for $40K-90K out of their account every year, and then see if they will take this issue seriously.

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If you end the completely Unconstitutional practice of Federal Withholding the Income Tax is doomed, period.

Yes please!

Ag1188 said:

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TheWoodlandsTxAg said:

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47% of Americans pay zero federal income tax, and some get EITC, refundable child tax credits, and money after paying 0 federal taxes. How is it fair for someone to get a EITC, refundable child tax credits, and other credits if they have never contributed a single cent in federal income taxes ever?

This is on top of the already extremely generous Medicaid, SNAP/food stamps, TANF, WIC, public education (the US spends more per pupil that any other country), government funded community hospitals/hospital districts, and countless other government funded welfare programs that people who have never contributed one cent in federal income taxes qualify for.

During budget reconciliation, Republicans should end all payroll deductions by employers including deductions for federal income tax, SS, and Medicare. Make it illegal for employers to make payroll deductions. Make the middle class voter write the check for $40K-90K out of their account every year, and then see if they will take this issue seriously.

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Those people live paycheck to paycheck. Middle class should definitely pay less, but targeting people making less who stress over money 24/7 despite working full-time is a terrible way to do it.

But do it if you want, just ensures a 40-seat Landslide midterm again just like 2018 midterms when Trump lost so many seats. Voters will assume Dems learned their lesson on the border by then. So do all your project 2025 like you are. Unqualified cabinet nominees were just a first step. Find some more $50 million condoms or whatever other Elon lies Republican twitter believes this week. I saw many republicans online defending Medicaid a few weeks ago so even they know that's even politically toxic, so good luck staying above water in approval polls.

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Democrats right now have their highest unfavorable rating in modern history.

Democrats are more hated right now than at anytime in modern history.

Leftist Axios: The Democrat Party is the most unpopular it's been in polling that dates back to 2008, according to a new survey from Quinnipiac University.

Democrats are struggling to repair their image with voters after a bruising 2024 election that put
President Trump in the White House and Republicans in control of both houses of Congress.

57% of registered voters have an unfavorable opinion of the Democratic Party, the highest percentage since Quinnipiac started asking the question in 2008.

Democrats just had their largest electoral college defeat since 1988.

The voters have decided that Democrats have gone extremely far left on crime, illegal immigration, and fiscal policy.

The voters are becoming even more conservative and Republican since the election with Trump and Republicans having their highest approval rating ever.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/doing-what-he-promised-trump-gets-better-approval-number-than-in-his-first-term

This poll was done by Left biased CBS. The Democrats are done. It turns out Americans don't like pro violent criminal, pro illegal immigration, and pro inflation/high spending Democrats.

It is also funny you mention Elon when George Soros, your largest donor is responsible for 20,000+ deaths ever year through the pro-criminal policies of his Democrat DAs and Democrat judges which he elects in Democrat jurisdictions.

Our biggest donor saves you money while your biggest donor gets 20,000 people killed every year with his soft on crime local politicians.

https://cdn.mrc.org/static/pdfuploads/Soros+Report_FINAL_PAGES.pdf-1723215421233.pdf

https://mrc.org/sorosdocuments

Soros also donates to all of the NGOs which caused 15 million illegal immigrants to come in during Biden's term.

https://nypost.com/2025/01/29/us-news/democrats-unfavorability-rating-reaches-new-high-poll/

pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

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For reference top 5% is a household income over $295,000

Top 1% is $788,000

I feel like most people think these values are a lot higher than they actually are.

Roth IRAs.
Totally converted to these over the years. No tax to worry about.

pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

infinity ag said:

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AJ02 said:

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If you don't pay income taxes, you have no skin in the game. Therefore, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

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Worst Best idea in the history of earth.

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People who don't pay income taxes should have no say in income tax rates.

We can still be compassionate toward them, but that doesn't mean we have to let them vote on how much of our hard-earned toil they get to take.

There are many people who are poor due to events totally outside their control. In this great country of opportunity, for every one of them there are 5 more who are poor because of life decisions (drugs, jail, etc.), poor work ethic, and the inability to delay gratification to earn your way to a better place. There is no way in hell those people should get a say on the amount of income they should be able to take from people who made the right, but difficult, decisions on their way to a better life.

infinity ag said:

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AJ02 said:

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If you don't pay income taxes, you have no skin in the game. Therefore, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

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Worst idea in the history of earth.

Do you think Homeless Howie cares about "skin in the game"? Dude is busy trying to sniff trash heaps for food. He probably lives under a bridge.

We cannot survive if we are not compassionate. That is what Jesus also teaches us. Below a certain income level, no income taxes. They need every dollar to survive.

The problem with this board is too much rich guy worship. People get rich for a variety of reasons. Some were probably rich to begin with (like Trump). Some are self made like Musk.

Tax free bracket, and then progressively it increases based on "ability to pay". If not my argument is "why should I pay $50k in taxes when John is just paying $5k? Are you penalizing me just because I am more successful than John?

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A. Jesus did not live in any form of democracy.
B. Jesus admonished his followers to take care of the needy, not force someone else to do so.
C. I would be okay with everyone paying the exact same amount of tax. If that were the case, we would all pay more attention to govt spending.

MemphisAg1 said:

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infinity ag said:

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AJ02 said:

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If you don't pay income taxes, you have no skin in the game. Therefore, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

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Worst Best idea in the history of earth.

---

People who don't pay income taxes should have no say in income tax rates.

We can still be compassionate toward them, but that doesn't mean we have to let them vote on how much of our hard-earned toil they get to take.

There are many people who are poor due to events totally outside their control. In this great country of opportunity, for every one of them there are 5 more who are poor because of life decisions (drugs, jail, etc.), poor work ethic, and the inability to delay gratification to earn your way to a better place. There is no way in hell those people should get a say on the amount of income they should be able to take from people who made the right, but difficult, decisions on their way to a better life.

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When do we vote on income tax rates? You elect officials and then hope they do what's in our best interest. If they don't, then you vote them out next time around. Are you saying that if you don't pay taxes then you can't vote at all?

What about stay at home moms or retired people? Do they no longer get to vote?

I don't have any intellectual property. Do I not get to vote because Congress also makes intellectual property laws?

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

I agree. I've always advocated raising taxes on the impoverished.

As a Christian, I ask myself who Jesus would raise taxes on and I always come back to one answer: the poor.

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Hey bud, those are just the facts! You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. As an Aggie you need to smarten up. Unfortunately federal taxes don't take care of the poor. Federal taxes go to the politicians who steal the money and buy votes with the rest of it. Individuals charitable contributions actually go to the needy without the politicians getting their grubby mitts on it. Unfortunately, government destroys wealth but free individuals create wealth and prosperity.

Average Joe said:

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When do we vote on income tax rates? You elect officials and then hope they do what's in our best interest. If they don't, then you vote them out next time around. Are you saying that if you don't pay taxes then you can't vote at all?

What about stay at home moms or retired people? Do they no longer get to vote?

I don't have any intellectual property. Do I not get to vote because Congress also makes intellectual property laws?

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It's very simple. People who do not pay income taxes should have no say in income tax rates.

Otherwise it's a huge conflict of interest. If I don't pay income taxes and want to vote that your income tax rates should increase in order to give me free money, that is insane.

The concept is applied in practice all around us. Only "dues-paying" members of associations get to vote on the dues structure. It's high time we brought similar common sense to the federal government.

If Democrats have their way that could very well change...sure it had been discussed by Biden's puppetmasters in how to spin it

Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

Are you insane? You think that the top few percent paying a flat tax and the bottom tax brackets also paying it would not shift the tax burden percentage significantly?

A flat tax would save me at least 90-100k a year and probably raise taxes on anyone under $200k.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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When do we vote on income tax rates? You elect officials and then hope they do what's in our best interest. If they don't, then you vote them out next time around. Are you saying that if you don't pay taxes then you can't vote at all?

What about stay at home moms or retired people? Do they no longer get to vote?

I don't have any intellectual property. Do I not get to vote because Congress also makes intellectual property laws?

---

It's very simple. People who do not pay income taxes should have no say in income tax rates.

Otherwise it's a huge conflict of interest. If I don't pay income taxes and want to vote that your income tax rates should increase in order to give me free money, that is insane.

The concept is applied in practice all around us. Only "dues-paying" members of associations get to vote on the dues structure. It's high time we brought similar common sense to the federal government.

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We're talking about voting for income taxes, not association dues. A function of the federal government. What other laws do we get to vote for individually, and only if they apply to us?

Should we also vote as a country on where the money gets spent line item by line item? I mean, I'm paying into it, why wouldn't I get to vote where it goes?

Average Joe said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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When do we vote on income tax rates? You elect officials and then hope they do what's in our best interest. If they don't, then you vote them out next time around. Are you saying that if you don't pay taxes then you can't vote at all?

What about stay at home moms or retired people? Do they no longer get to vote?

I don't have any intellectual property. Do I not get to vote because Congress also makes intellectual property laws?

---

It's very simple. People who do not pay income taxes should have no say in income tax rates.

Otherwise it's a huge conflict of interest. If I don't pay income taxes and want to vote that your income tax rates should increase in order to give me free money, that is insane.

The concept is applied in practice all around us. Only "dues-paying" members of associations get to vote on the dues structure. It's high time we brought similar common sense to the federal government.

---

We're talking about voting for income taxes, not association dues. A function of the federal government. What other laws do we get to vote for individually, and only if they apply to us?

Should we also vote as a country on where the money gets spent line item by line item? I mean, I'm paying into it, why wouldn't I get to vote where it goes?

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Let's make this easy for you before you spin off down rabbit trails.

If they are not net federal tax payers they shouldn't get to bit in federal elections at all. Period:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

Alexander Fraser Tytler

Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

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False. You are spreading misinformation. Here are the current tax rates:

The more you make, the more your tax rate goes up. Higher income people get soaked on tax rates. Why should they pay a higher rate? They will stay pay more in taxes with a flat rate on their higher income.

And those bottom rates? Many of those don't pay income tax at all -- or very little -- after substracting their standard deduction and other items.

It gets even worse... some of them get more back in a tax refund than they paid in taxes. How is it possible to get a refund for more than you paid? The world doesn't work that way. It's welfare administered through the tax code; that's what it is. And yet the left continues to scream that the wealthy "don't pay their fair share." BS.

Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

Are you insane? You think that the top few percent paying a flat tax and the bottom tax brackets also paying it would not shift the tax burden percentage significantly?

A flat tax would save me at least 90-100k a year and probably raise taxes on anyone under $200k.

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It's literally math. Calculate it for yourself. The AGI for the bottom 50% is 1/3rd of the top 1%. 76 million people combined make ONE THIRD of the top 1.5 million people. The top 1% accounts for 22% of the total AGI, while the bottom 50% accounts for 11.5% of the total AGI.

Now, please slap whatever percentage flat tax you want against those two numbers and tell me who is paying more total, the top 1% or the bottom 50%.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

False. You are spreading misinformation. Here are the current tax rates:

The more you make, the more your tax rate goes up. Higher income people get soaked on tax rates. Why should they pay a higher rate? They will stay pay more in taxes with a flat rate on their higher income.

And those bottom rates? Many of those don't pay income tax at all -- or very little -- after substracting their standard deduction and other items.

It gets even worse... some of them get more back in a tax refund than they paid in taxes. How is it possible to get a refund for more than you paid? The world doesn't work that way. It's welfare administered through the tax code; that's what it is. And yet the left continues to scream that the wealthy "don't pay their fair share." BS.

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See the post above this one. The numbers would be similar with a flat tax.

I am sure I am paying for at least two of these.

Average Joe said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

False. You are spreading misinformation. Here are the current tax rates:

The more you make, the more your tax rate goes up. Higher income people get soaked on tax rates. Why should they pay a higher rate? They will stay pay more in taxes with a flat rate on their higher income.

And those bottom rates? Many of those don't pay income tax at all -- or very little -- after substracting their standard deduction and other items.

It gets even worse... some of them get more back in a tax refund than they paid in taxes. How is it possible to get a refund for more than you paid? The world doesn't work that way. It's welfare administered through the tax code; that's what it is. And yet the left continues to scream that the wealthy "don't pay their fair share." BS.

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See the post above this one. The numbers would be similar with a flat tax.

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I don't think math is your strong point. It's even obvious to a blind man that if the top tax payers today pay a high rate, and the bottom payers pay a low rate or no taxes... if you moved to a flat tax the rate for the top payers would come down and the rate for the bottom payers would have to move up to produce the same amount of tax revenue in total as the current system.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

False. You are spreading misinformation. Here are the current tax rates:

The more you make, the more your tax rate goes up. Higher income people get soaked on tax rates. Why should they pay a higher rate? They will stay pay more in taxes with a flat rate on their higher income.

And those bottom rates? Many of those don't pay income tax at all -- or very little -- after substracting their standard deduction and other items.

It gets even worse... some of them get more back in a tax refund than they paid in taxes. How is it possible to get a refund for more than you paid? The world doesn't work that way. It's welfare administered through the tax code; that's what it is. And yet the left continues to scream that the wealthy "don't pay their fair share." BS.

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See the post above this one. The numbers would be similar with a flat tax.

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I don't think math is your strong point. It's even obvious to a blind man that if the top tax payers today pay a high rate, and the bottom payers pay a low rate or no taxes... if you moved to a flat tax the rate for the top payers would come down and the rate for the bottom payers would have to move up to produce the same amount of tax revenue in total as the current system.

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What flat rate would you propose?

Average Joe said:

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What flat rate would you propose?

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First, I would cut the hell out of the federal budget to eliminate stuff that the federal government shouldn't be involved in. By like half or so.

Then I would determine the flat rate, that when applied across all income earners above the poverty threshold, would produce the revenue needed to fund the government.

Simple. No deductions or carve outs. Only four entries on your tax return:
1. Your income
2. Your total tax due (multiplied by flat rate)
3. Less the withholding from your employer
4. Your net tax due (or refund)

MemphisAg1 said:

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Average Joe said:

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What flat rate would you propose?

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First, I would cut the hell out of the federal budget to eliminate stuff that the federal government shouldn't be involved in. By like half or so.

Then I would determine the flat rate, that when applied across all income earners above the poverty threshold, would produce the revenue needed to fund the government.

Simple. No deductions or carve outs. Only four entries on your tax return:
1. Your income
2. Your total tax due (multiplied by flat rate)
3. Less the withholding from your employer
4. Your net tax due (or refund)

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You realize that the bottom 50% make 11% of the total AGI? So, you can tax them all you want, but they would still be BELOW 11% of the TOTAL tax burden no matter what.

Tax them 100% if you please. The top 50% would still have to cover 89%+ of the tax burden with a flat tax.

Average Joe said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

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Are you insane? You think that the top few percent paying a flat tax and the bottom tax brackets also paying it would not shift the tax burden percentage significantly?

A flat tax would save me at least 90-100k a year and probably raise taxes on anyone under $200k.

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It's literally math. Calculate it for yourself. The AGI for the bottom 50% is 1/3rd of the top 1%. 76 million people combined make ONE THIRD of the top 1.5 million people. The top 1% accounts for 22% of the total AGI, while the bottom 50% accounts for 11.5% of the total AGI.

Now, please slap whatever percentage flat tax you want against those two numbers and tell me who is paying more total, the top 1% or the bottom 50%.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

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The bottom 50% pay net zero. If they paid 15% without deductions, they would pay around 1.5 trillion.

How is that the same. From zero to around 20% of total tax receipts.

We're not on the same page. The IRS can calculate whatever the flat rate would need to be that produces the total revenue needed for the federal budget. It's basic math. Let's just suppose for this conversation it's something like 15% (after you cut the federal spending in half). When you eliminate deductions that wealthy people use, you all of a sudden get a lot more income into the taxable bucket. By doing that (and reducing spending), you can keep the rate at a level that is fair to EVERYONE.

Again, exempting those below the poverty level for the obvious reason. If you make $100 over the poverty level, you gotta pay $15 to have skin in the game. Make a million? Your tab is $150k. Elon Musk and $50 billion. Pony up a $7.5B check.

TheWoodlandsTxAg said:

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47% of Americans pay zero federal income tax, and some get EITC, refundable child tax credits, and money after paying 0 federal taxes. How is it fair for someone to get a EITC, refundable child tax credits, and other credits if they have never contributed a single cent in federal income taxes ever?

This is on top of the already extremely generous Medicaid, SNAP/food stamps, TANF, WIC, public education (the US spends more per pupil that any other country), government funded community hospitals/hospital districts, and countless other government funded welfare programs that people who have never contributed one cent in federal income taxes qualify for.

During budget reconciliation, Republicans should end all payroll deductions by employers including deductions for federal income tax, SS, and Medicare. Make it illegal for employers to make payroll deductions. Make the middle class voter write the check for $40K-90K out of their account every year, and then see if they will take this issue seriously.

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They don't count any of that when they assess income inequality. It really skews the results since those at the very bottom in income collect a lot of Bennies if they concentrate on it

Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

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That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

Are you insane? You think that the top few percent paying a flat tax and the bottom tax brackets also paying it would not shift the tax burden percentage significantly?

A flat tax would save me at least 90-100k a year and probably raise taxes on anyone under $200k.

---

It's literally math. Calculate it for yourself. The AGI for the bottom 50% is 1/3rd of the top 1%. 76 million people combined make ONE THIRD of the top 1.5 million people. The top 1% accounts for 22% of the total AGI, while the bottom 50% accounts for 11.5% of the total AGI.

Now, please slap whatever percentage flat tax you want against those two numbers and tell me who is paying more total, the top 1% or the bottom 50%.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

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The bottom 50% pay net zero. If they paid 15% without deductions, they would pay around 1.5 trillion.

How is that the same. From zero to around 20% of total tax receipts.

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They only make up 11.5% of the total AGI. How can they possibly make up 20% of total tax receipts with a flat tax?

Top 5% making 200k+
Of course that is about $115k in 2020 dollars. FJB's inflation.

Average Joe said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Average Joe said:

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pfo said:

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% Federal Income Tax Paid:

Top 1%…………40%
Top 5%…………66%

So the Top 5% of earners are paying 2/3rds of America's income taxes and 47% are total leaches. So I agree that the wealthy should pay their fair share…… WE COULD USE THE HUGE TAX CUT

---

That stat is extremely misleading. The reason the top 5% pay 66% has more to do with how much more they make than the average American and not as much that they get taxed a ton more. The numbers would still be very similar if we had a flat tax.

---

Are you insane? You think that the top few percent paying a flat tax and the bottom tax brackets also paying it would not shift the tax burden percentage significantly?

A flat tax would save me at least 90-100k a year and probably raise taxes on anyone under $200k.

---

It's literally math. Calculate it for yourself. The AGI for the bottom 50% is 1/3rd of the top 1%. 76 million people combined make ONE THIRD of the top 1.5 million people. The top 1% accounts for 22% of the total AGI, while the bottom 50% accounts for 11.5% of the total AGI.

Now, please slap whatever percentage flat tax you want against those two numbers and tell me who is paying more total, the top 1% or the bottom 50%.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/

---

The bottom 50% pay net zero. If they paid 15% without deductions, they would pay around 1.5 trillion.

How is that the same. From zero to around 20% of total tax receipts.

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They only make up 11.5% of the total AGI. How can they possibly make up 20% of total tax receipts with a flat tax?

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How much in total gross income does the bottom 50% make?