Ferg said:

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MookieBlaylock said:

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Silly Protestants-

Saturday mass counts

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Saturday Evening Mass Counts starting 4PM Mass and after.

Those are called Vigil masses. (Just like Christmas Eve Masses)

Also, Catholic Churches have multiple masses on Sunday morning, some at 730 or earlier.

I played hoops for a Catholic High School, and we had Sunday afternoon and evening games and that was a half century ago.

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And if you live in a 'mission' parish, you might even have a Saturday morning vigil mass.

SociallyConditionedAg said:

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That and Wednesday nights. Religion was undermined in a generation.

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I'd say "competing interest" rather than any sort of deliberate undermining

Perhaps Wednesday night is Wednesday night

Nothing deliberate

TheEternalOptimist said:

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…or is the higher level of commitment to youth sports than to faithful attendance with a body of believers a merely a symptom of weakened religious commitment?

We had our daughters in several travel sports and deprioritized our faithful Church attendance.

A few weeks ago, I allowed my son to play a travel tournament in Huntsville AL …. But with one caveat… we still had to attend church and have communion with a like minded body of believers… which meant he was late to his game and missed most of the first period. Fortunately our coach understood and had no issue with it.

But in general I am of the opinion that prioritizing youth sports on Sunday over church has weakened Christendom overall in America.

I'm a GenX guy but my dad, who was an excellent baseball player, said there was no level of youth sports that played on Sundays in Texas when he was a kid.

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This would not be an issue if church were important to more people. The demand for Sunday youth sports would not be sufficient.

Don't get me started on what a poor investment I believe travel sports are for many people. If you think little Kaden is going D1 and neither you nor your wife did so, you're probably better off having family time on the weekends, putting the travel-ball money into a college fund, letting Kaden play in the local little league and on school teams when he's older, and not forcing younger siblings to tag along to another family weekend at a crappy Hampton Inn.

It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I'm a family that raises nothing but CEO's...


Christmas+Easter Only

My child is going to be the Tiger Woods of Deep Snapping. He will be in camps from the time he is 5, he is will not be allowed to play any other sports.

It's the best position in sports. Nobody values it, so anyone dedicated is guaranteed to make at least league minimum in the NFL, and it's illegal to touch them, unlike being a kicker.

We played tournament baseball and never missed Mass as a result. Between Saturday night, early services, and Sunday evening it was pretty easy. Parents not prioritizing is the problem not the sport

Not goingto opine on the religious vs sports debate....all im gonna say is after 7 years abroad and coming back to TX with a 9 and 11 year old....sports for kids has become absolutely ridiculous from a time and monetary standpoint. We just left UK where we kid was playing competitive soccer, I was paying maybe $300 for a season. I come back to Houston and it's 3k...fuxking ridiculous

Probably belongs more on the R&P board IMO.

But yes, youth sports is now part of the big business that athletics has become. Our culture has misplaced its affections towards men who can do something interesting with a ball. These folks get paid figures we cannot even comprehend.

So yes, for many American families, you can stack up the time spent weekly on sports versus other familial and faith driven things and it's embarrassing. But specifically the time on the Lord's day was intended for the edification of the saints - something any believer needs. And when you spend that time at a ballpark you're cheating yourself of what God's will is in your life and how to live optimally for him.

Its Texas Aggies, dammit said:

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Don't get me started on what a poor investment I believe travel sports are for many people. If you think little Kaden is going D1 and neither you nor your wife did so, you're probably better off having family time on the weekends, putting the travel-ball money into a college fund, letting Kaden play in the local little league and on school teams when he's older, and not forcing younger siblings to tag along to another family weekend at a crappy Hampton Inn.

It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Yes you're wrong and your post makes you sound envious of people with money and/or athletic kids. Nobody we played ball with was doing it for the scholarship although a couple of our teammates did get partials. We did it because the kids loved playing and it was a great way to spend time together. Also, your kid isn't making the school team if he's just playing Little League so you'd miss out on that.

BTW Little League is a bigger time boof than tournament ball because it is one game every weekend and usually practice on Sundays. Travel ball was typically every other weekend so we'd get to have our adventures on the off weekends. The money we spent would hardy put a dent into a college degree.

The good baseball teams don't play every weekend and they surely don't play deep into the summer for elementary school age kids.

There are Sunday schools at the ballfields.

I think OP is right. I see it even among the kids at our private Christian school, which requires a recommendation letter from your pastor/preacher/priest attesting to your regular church involvement. Many of the kids now pick one sport and play it year-round. That means a lot of kids are playing tournaments out of town on weekends and missing church. We are facing that point as our boys are considering joining an AAU basketball team composed of the kids from their high school team so they keep developing year-round. We'll have to be choosy about what tournaments they participate in. I'd like to limit it to in-town tournaments with Sunday games limited to afternoon (after morning service). Hopefully there will be enough of those options available to make it worthwhile. We definitely will not join a team where they are constantly travelling and/or missing Sunday morning services.

I'd like to add that I have no illusions that either of my boys will be professional or even D1 basketball players. However, there are a number of great STEM oriented colleges with DII and DIII basketball teams. We don't need athletic scholarships, but you can actually get IN if you are an athlete. When you are facing 5-10% admissions rates, sports can be the way in for a white male without a woke sob story to tell. Consistently the kids from our school who get into the best colleges are the athletes. MIT, Harvard, the service academies, or even just good engineering colleges like School of Mines are where our best student athletes are going. Without sports, many of them would be looking at holistic admissions (the top 10% is only 5-8 kids per grade, mostly female) at A&M and sip, with out-of-state SEC schools as the plan B.

Tormentos said:

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Not goingto opine on the religious vs sports debate....all im gonna say is after 7 years abroad and coming back to TX with a 9 and 11 year old....sports for kids has become absolutely ridiculous from a time and monetary standpoint. We just left UK where we kid was playing competitive soccer, I was paying maybe $300 for a season. I come back to Houston and it's 3k...fuxking ridiculous

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I so agree with this! My son was an excellent little league player and soccer player as a child. As a result we spent WAY too much time on weekends and holidays on fields instead of relaxing from an intense school week or having family outings. My husband volunteered as a coach for many years and was often treated very rudely by fellow parents. And for what? My son stopped playing baseball in junior high and soccer in high school, because he had no intention of taking sports further in his life.

To the original point, when they started having practice on Sundays, our church didn't have alternate day services to attend. He was the star player on the team, but, we told the coach he would miss at least one practice a month to attend our church. The coach understood. And this was back in the 90s. I can't imagine what it's like now.

No dog in this discussion.

But the day of holy is the 7th day. Which going back to the early days of Christianity and Judaism is the Saturday. It's the 4th in the Ten commandments.

So I say college football is undermining the faith!

Sports were a lot more enjoyable as a kid when they were unorganized. Don't know if that is even possible now with all the rules. Schools and parks make you register to use, if at all. Most parks are sublet to various leagues in Houston area. Schools don't even want you on their property without written consent, etc. As kids we used to congregate at school practice fields for hours of unsupervised sports.

100% a symptom. Alternatively, are people who check the box by attending church on Sunday yet don't live a Christian lifestyle during the week better? What about people who live the faith every day yet don't attend mass every Sunday? Prioritize your faith in your life and the answers will be disclosed to you as to how you should live your life.

In America, Money > Faith just about sums it up. If you can use Faith to make yourself some money, all the better. Somehow those bits about Greed and Loving Ones Neighbor gets overlooked quite often in the interest of Capitalism.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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No dog in this discussion.

But the day of holy is the 7th day. Which going back to the early days of Christianity and Judaism is the Saturday. It's the 4th in the Ten commandments.

So I say college football is undermining the faith!

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Correct, the sabbath always started at sundown on Friday and lasted until sundown on Saturday. Plenty of Christians still keep it the way God of Israel intended

Youth club sports are out of control. Way too expensive and time consuming. Sports should be fun for kids, not a full time occupation. I've seen way too many kids get completley burnt out on it, and the money wasted chasing the crap scholarships to junior college and d3 schools is moronic.

revvie said:

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Sports were a lot more enjoyable as a kid when they were unorganized. Don't know if that is even possible now with all the rules. Schools and parks make you register to use, if at all. Most parks are sublet to various leagues in Houston area. Schools don't even want you on their property without written consent, etc. As kids we used to congregate at school practice fields for hours of unsupervised sports.

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Pickup games.

The only substantial pick up games we have left in the USA is probably basketball.

And the lack of pickup soccer is why the USA will never win the World Cup while rest of the world soccer kids are playing pick up soccer in the traffic with made up rules and goals. Sans women sports.

JB99 said:

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Youth club sports are out of control. Way too expensive and time consuming. Sports should be fun for kids, not a full time occupation. I've seen way too many kids get completley burnt out on it, and the money wasted chasing the crap scholarships to junior college and d3 schools is moronic.

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Truth. Parents lose their mind over it and their kid will never make real money playing sports. What's left is ****ty parents raising kids that are uncoachable. Uncoachable kids become unemployable adults.

SunrayAg said:

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That would be about 9000th on the list of things weakening faith in this country, with the tv set, the classroom, leftist theologians, and the smart phone being the top 4.

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Yeah, I would say bad theology does more harm than sports. It is that the theology in some places is so bad, people opt to take their ids to recreational activities.

One mainstream Lutheran denomination can't figure our why their membership has declined in the last 30 years. The leadership wants to blame culture and politics, but they should really be looking in the mirror.

93MarineHorn said:

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Youth sports on Sundays was not something I remember growing up in Texas. But people nowadays go in much lower numbers. Personally, I wouldn't commit to an event in another state if I wasn't willing to participate fully. If your kid is a starter and misses significant playing time it will hurt the team and cause disruption to the normal game plan.

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Because it wasn't a thing. Once in a blue moon we had a soccer match in an out of tournament on a Sunday afternoon but that was usually due to some reason we couldn't squeeze it on Saturday.

I was shocked on a business trip a few years ago when the customer I was hosting was tracking his son's baseball game at 8am on Sunday on some app.

Crazy to me.

Martin Cash said:

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I always admired Tom Landry. He went to church every Sunday, even on game days and on road trips. Always found a church with an early service that he could attend.

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If there's a will, there's a way, even if it means going to a different church every now and then.

FIDO*98* said:

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Its Texas Aggies, dammit said:

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Don't get me started on what a poor investment I believe travel sports are for many people. If you think little Kaden is going D1 and neither you nor your wife did so, you're probably better off having family time on the weekends, putting the travel-ball money into a college fund, letting Kaden play in the local little league and on school teams when he's older, and not forcing younger siblings to tag along to another family weekend at a crappy Hampton Inn.

It's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Yes you're wrong and your post makes you sound envious of people with money and/or athletic kids. Nobody we played ball with was doing it for the scholarship although a couple of our teammates did get partials. We did it because the kids loved playing and it was a great way to spend time together. Also, your kid isn't making the school team if he's just playing Little League so you'd miss out on that.

BTW Little League is a bigger time boof than tournament ball because it is one game every weekend and usually practice on Sundays. Travel ball was typically every other weekend so we'd get to have our adventures on the off weekends. The money we spent would hardy put a dent into a college degree.

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Not envious or incapable. Kids were good high school athletes who mainly played football and ran track after they got older, so travel sports became unnecessary. We did a bit of travel sports when they were younger but it did not fit our family's goals. We had an excellent little league in our area that included a development program to address the shortcomings you mention.

It was mainly the baseball parents who prompted my post above. I'm glad your situation was different. What I said above was indeed applicable to many families I have known. Note the qualifiers in my post.

YouBet said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Youth sports on Sundays was not something I remember growing up in Texas. But people nowadays go in much lower numbers. Personally, I wouldn't commit to an event in another state if I wasn't willing to participate fully. If your kid is a starter and misses significant playing time it will hurt the team and cause disruption to the normal game plan.

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Because it wasn't a thing. Once in a blue moon we had a soccer match in an out of tournament on a Sunday afternoon but that was usually due to some reason we couldn't squeeze it on Saturday.

I was shocked on a business trip a few years ago when the customer I was hosting was tracking his son's baseball game at 8am on Sunday on some app.

Crazy to me.

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crazy is you working at 8 am on a Sunday and judging others

My two sons played travel baseball. We would carry around a stack of papers with churches, mass times and marked on a printed map.

Lol, my first iPad made it tons easier.

It was difficult, but we always made mass.

no

No. They are a symptom of a general falling away.

It's an enabler.

MookieBlaylock said:

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YouBet said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Youth sports on Sundays was not something I remember growing up in Texas. But people nowadays go in much lower numbers. Personally, I wouldn't commit to an event in another state if I wasn't willing to participate fully. If your kid is a starter and misses significant playing time it will hurt the team and cause disruption to the normal game plan.

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Because it wasn't a thing. Once in a blue moon we had a soccer match in an out of tournament on a Sunday afternoon but that was usually due to some reason we couldn't squeeze it on Saturday.

I was shocked on a business trip a few years ago when the customer I was hosting was tracking his son's baseball game at 8am on Sunday on some app.

Crazy to me.

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crazy is you working at 8 am on a Sunday and judging others

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Wasn't really working. We were in Napa Valley on a "business trip".

I agree with you OP and good for you for setting better course.
It's up to parents to teach their children what is truly important and demonstrate that by example. There are so many distractions from the on activity that is of ultimate actual importance (seeking and serving God), youth sports is an example, but there are countless others.

Imagine how much money Chick Fil A could make on Sundays, but they choose to Honor God and not open.

Choose this day whom (or what) you will serve……..

The 'problem' goes away when everyone just waters their own yard.

YouBet said:

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MookieBlaylock said:

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YouBet said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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Youth sports on Sundays was not something I remember growing up in Texas. But people nowadays go in much lower numbers. Personally, I wouldn't commit to an event in another state if I wasn't willing to participate fully. If your kid is a starter and misses significant playing time it will hurt the team and cause disruption to the normal game plan.

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Because it wasn't a thing. Once in a blue moon we had a soccer match in an out of tournament on a Sunday afternoon but that was usually due to some reason we couldn't squeeze it on Saturday.

I was shocked on a business trip a few years ago when the customer I was hosting was tracking his son's baseball game at 8am on Sunday on some app.

Crazy to me.

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crazy is you working at 8 am on a Sunday and judging others

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Wasn't really working. We were in Napa Valley on a "business trip".

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so your fake business meeting took a man from his family and you mock him for watching his kids game- got it

When I was a kid growing up in Victoria, TX, the priest cut the 10:45 service off by 11:40 because the Cowboys kicked off at noon and people needed time to get home.

revvie said:

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Sports were a lot more enjoyable as a kid when they were unorganized. Don't know if that is even possible now with all the rules. Schools and parks make you register to use, if at all. Most parks are sublet to various leagues in Houston area. Schools don't even want you on their property without written consent, etc. As kids we used to congregate at school practice fields for hours of unsupervised sports.

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I would guess that's why Sunday became busier for youth sports - so many different leagues and select teams now to juggle field time with.