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The problem is, as Vivek explained during the campaign, is that if you try to remove federal workers based on performance, you'll end up with endless lawsuits.

That's why the vivek proposed selecting employees at random based on their ssn.

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I understand Vivek's point, but you don't treat cancer by leaving cancer in the body. If an organization doesn't have management that can identify high vs. low performing personnel, then it is poorly managed. Keep your high performers. If the rest want to sue, so be it. Litigation is time consuming and expensive and generally favors the party with resources and staying power. Given enough time (without steady pay), folks will get bored and move on to something else.

88planoAg said:

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I agree with taking a chopping block to the federal bloat. I've been cheering on DOGE. But is this the right way to go about trimming the fat?

A family member got a new job and moved his young family across the country last month for the opportunity. Has a 3 year old and one on the way. USDA was his new employer. He was just fired because he was just hired.

I am brokenhearted for them. This is a job in the agricultural industry, his degrees are in botany.

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I'm not discounting his situation but have you ever seen a RIF in the private sector, specifically O&G? Horror stories upon horror stories. Looks like the opening scene in Margin Call.

Its Not Rocket Surgery said:

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Quote:

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The problem is, as Vivek explained during the campaign, is that if you try to remove federal workers based on performance, you'll end up with endless lawsuits.

That's why the vivek proposed selecting employees at random based on their ssn.

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I understand Vivek's point, but you don't treat cancer by leaving cancer in the body. If an organization doesn't have management that can identify high vs. low performing personnel, then it is poorly managed. Keep your high performers. If the rest want to sue, so be it. Litigation is time consuming and expensive and generally favors the party with resources and staying power. Given enough time (without steady pay), folks will get bored and move on to something else.

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Agree a 1000%. Unfortunately that's the reality of the situation now.

I've been through 15 years of layoffs in the private sector. Instead of our company removing the bottom 10% of performers they lay off by department, so they don't have HR issues. They will lay off top talent and leave dead weight. It's crazy.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for govt workers getting canned. None. Zero. Those of us in the private sector have had to deal with this type of thing for ages. It's part of the real world. Believing you're entitled to your job forever is absolutely insane behavior and I couldn't care less about their woes.

We have soon to be ex family friends who both suck on the govt teet but moved a good two states away from their office who have been complaining all over the Internet about how the new admin are a bunch of tyrants etc etc. They both complain endlessly about losing their jobs, but if they were smart, which I'm not convinced of, they would have taken the buyout and found a new job and had a nice fat bonus to their bank account.

People that victimize themselves at every turn while simultaneously acting like we owe them their paycheck for life for a non show job make me sick.

Anger should be directed towards the politicians and bureaucrats that put us in this position. They knew what was happening and didn't do anything to fix it. The correction is hard and painful and will devastate many good people.

I went through a similiar situation. Newly married. First job out of college. I got RIFd after 2 weeks after moving my family. Found a new job within a month. Paid 20% more. I've been with that company 25 years. The original company ended up going bankrupt.

No jobs are guaranteed

It's a bummer for people like your friend, but it is necessary.

Sq 17 said:

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It's lazy management
but to be fair it is possible that new employees can be fired more easily

I am sure your relative who recently lost his job has a supervisor and that supervisor should have been tasked with reducing headcount by 15% and given 60 days to do it

Of course that solution would not create headlines and drama which are important to the Trump way of doing things

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Umm...youre assuming that the supervisor is someone who can be trusted and should be kept too. The people at top are worse than those under them, so why the hell would they be spared AND given responsibility to choose who should be cut and who should stay?

If you're gonna clean house to fix a problem, you don't let the people who are entrenched in the system stick around, and you definitely don't leave the decision on who to keep with them. That's the dumbest thing you can do. That's not a solution. That's actually set up to make it worse.

88planoAg said:

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I agree with taking a chopping block to the federal bloat. I've been cheering on DOGE. But is this the right way to go about trimming the fat?

A family member got a new job and moved his young family across the country last month for the opportunity. Has a 3 year old and one on the way. USDA was his new employer. He was just fired because he was just hired.

I am brokenhearted for them. This is a job in the agricultural industry, his degrees are in botany.

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I agree with you and I feel sad too.

But this is America today. We absolutely lack compassion for our fellow American these days. We justify offshoring jobs at the blink of an eye devastating small towns just so someone rich can make even more money and advise them "learn to code". It's acceptable if this happens to other people, not to ourselves.

I think this should be done humanely and give people some notice. Elon is firing people too quickly. We have innocent families being disrupted and we think it is okay.

I don't know what the solution is, maybe there is no better way.
Sad.

Nothing wrong with having to put on big boy pants.

88planoAg said:

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I agree with taking a chopping block to the federal bloat. I've been cheering on DOGE. But is this the right way to go about trimming the fat?

A family member got a new job and moved his young family across the country last month for the opportunity. Has a 3 year old and one on the way. USDA was his new employer. He was just fired because he was just hired.

I am brokenhearted for them. This is a job in the agricultural industry, his degrees are in botany.

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Terrible for the guy and his family that is for sure. But that is how it also is in the real world, the for-profit world outside of government.

I would have started at the top though. All government entities are bloated and lots of money at the top. And I would have offered a package to everyone at the USDA (and other agencies) for those who voluntarily quit. It would not have been huge, but when offered to them I would let them know that the offer was good for 30 days and that after that time frame there would be huge layoffs and there would be no severance package to those laid off.

Early in my career I had one child and another on the way. My company was taken over by another and I got a pink slip with little severance. I look at it now as a blessing in disguise because it forced me to make a change I wouldn't have done otherwise.

Government riffs and layoffs start at the bottom of seniority.

I don't really care Margaret. Half needs to go, many will be good people who need to find another way to contribute.

Unions did this

LIFO rules. Been through a RIF, landed on my feet in the private sector.

JB99 said:

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I went through a similiar situation. Newly married. First job out of college. I got RIFd after 2 weeks after moving my family. Found a new job within a month. Paid 20% more. I've been with that company 25 years. The original company ended up going bankrupt.

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I had the rug pulled out from under me a month prior to graduation from A&M. Company closed down office I was going to start at and move SOME of the people to another location. I asked if I could go with them, but the lady who hired me wasn't sure she was going to make the cut herself. That began a rough few months after I had turned down several other offers to take that one.

The interesting thing was, it probably paid less and I would have worked harder than in the other positions, but I was willing to endure the sweatshop type situation for a while for the experience.

I made it out OK. And that wasn't my only experience with RIFs.

you are clearly unaware that the only people in the US Government GS Federal Service

who can be summarily fired are "probationary" employees

that's why it's called probationary.

Probationary also applies to anyone promoted in the last two years. So the plan is to fire the youngest and best employees. Let's see how it plays out.

ts5641 said:

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This is always sad no matter who the employer is. There are always going to be heartbreaking stories, but the fed government needs to be gutted. Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats who actively work against the American people.

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"Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats "

• This the correct answer but I guarantee the MSM will point directly at DOGE and President Trump.

Hopefully he will get the severance package, 8 months I believe, and find a better paying job.

Working for the US Government for over 40 years, and much of this time as a supervisor.
I have seen very good people get "let go" and real sh*tbirds continue because they're senior.
I remember one fellow I wrote up for "sleeping in an upright position", instead of alertly inspecting as was his job.

richardag said:

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ts5641 said:

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This is always sad no matter who the employer is. There are always going to be heartbreaking stories, but the fed government needs to be gutted. Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats who actively work against the American people.

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"Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats "

• This the correct answer but I guarantee the MSM will point directly at DOGE and President Trump.

Hopefully he will get the severance package, 8 months I believe, and find a better paying job.

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I don't think there is severance, he had just started - he was fired within days of his start date.

88planoAg said:

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I agree with taking a chopping block to the federal bloat. I've been cheering on DOGE. But is this the right way to go about trimming the fat?

A family member got a new job and moved his young family across the country last month for the opportunity. Has a 3 year old and one on the way. USDA was his new employer. He was just fired because he was just hired.

I am brokenhearted for them. This is a job in the agricultural industry, his degrees are in botany.

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If the government was run like a real business and had to make profits or close the doors all this would never happen, it's unfortunate some people will have things like this happen, but I'm sure the government will work some,thing out for them. DOGE may save this country

Seamaster said:

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88planoAg said:

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I agree with taking a chopping block to the federal bloat. I've been cheering on DOGE. But is this the right way to go about trimming the fat?

A family member got a new job and moved his young family across the country last month for the opportunity. Has a 3 year old and one on the way. USDA was his new employer. He was just fired because he was just hired.

I am brokenhearted for them. This is a job in the agricultural industry, his degrees are in botany.

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It's sad but this sort of thing happens in the private sector ALL THE TIME.

I've been laid off. My brother has been laid off.

It happens.

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I got laid off a couple months after my wife became pregnant w/ our first daughter. Luckly found a job immediately with a small company. My severance package cushioned the blow & ~ doubled my salary for 6 months.
Still quite traumatic experience.

ETA: What was most disturbing is I had just developed a product for sale replacing our supplier. Annual sales were over $2 million/year(re: this was in 1986).
They kept on someone that had not developed a single product, had done, nada, zilch, nothing for a couple of years. I pulled our files, mine was several inches thick just on correspondence on products I had developed, their file had 2 or 3 bull**** letters. But they were an LSU grad and my bosses boss was an LSU grad, still bitter I am.

88planoAg said:

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richardag said:

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ts5641 said:

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This is always sad no matter who the employer is. There are always going to be heartbreaking stories, but the fed government needs to be gutted. Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats who actively work against the American people.

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"Blame it on the left and the nameless, faceless bureaucrats "

• This the correct answer but I guarantee the MSM will point directly at DOGE and President Trump.

Hopefully he will get the severance package, 8 months I believe, and find a better paying job.

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I don't think there is severance, he had just started - he was fired within days of his start date.

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If true that is brutal. I thought President Trump's plan was to provide severance packages for 8 months. I guess I was mistaken.

And now he gets 8 months of pay to figure out his next move.

When I was laid off from the oilfield I couldn't even draw unemployment, and had a job the next week.

These probationary employees did not get the 8 month severance. They were fired with no notice and no severance given.

Farmer_J said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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stallion6 said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Do you know a better way than getting rid of unneeded workers?

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Yes. Only use performance as the reduction criteria. Do not consider any other factors.

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Huh? That still gets rid of unneeded workers.

Sucks, but this position appears to have not been needed. Wasteful spending

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NPC response.

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This is such a huge self-own.

Are you a bot?

The 8 months of pay is only for people who resigned prior to Monday at 7:20 EST.

I doubt this person did. I advised every single probationary hire to resign for severance, but y'all know how people can be afraid to make smart decisions in the moment.

Further, it didn't help that SES's across the government were muddying the waters about the legality/legitimacy of the 8 month offer.

No USDA employee ever cried or lobbied on behalf of us in the Ag industry when we get laid off. Yet their slow and lackluster research branches hindered every step we took.

Sucks. I feel bad for them, but they will bounce back.

OregonAg03 said:

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These probationary employees did not get the 8 month severance. They were fired with no notice and no severance given.

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While true, everyone had the chance to take the deferred severance. Full disclosure, I'm a manager in the federal system, so I'm seeing this first hand. I lost four employees. One was probationary who I was planning to fire during the probationary period. We had had a few talks about their performance. He wisely took the deferred resignation. Another was retiring anyways on Feb 28. He took the deferred resignation and now has 8 more months of full benefits while not required to work. As an aside, he's an incredibly dedicated employee and will be helping to transition his work to another employee during the 8 month period. Another was probationary, but saw the writing on the wall, and took the deferred resignation. He just let me know that he's been offered a job, so he'll be "double dipping" for 8 months. The last was probationary, but decided not to take the deferred resignation. I had to let her know Friday morning. She knew it was a risk. She'll be fine, but she won't be getting the 8 months of full pay and benefits.

This is not without precedent in the federal system, but it's been a while. I support it, but it is hard not to take it personally. I think that's true in the private sector too. My agency is incredibly top-heavy, and I've witnessed the grade creep. I just hope that after right-sizing, that there are protocols in place to keep it from bloating again.

I don't take any pleasure in seeing someone get laid off unexpectedly on short notice. Especially those with limited means, bills to pay, and mouths to feed. I really feel for them.

If they took a "kinder, gentler" approach to this they would be fought every step along the way, from within and externally.

Take note of the fallout and collateral damage. We're headed toward a similar outcome on a much larger scale if we don't get our federal spending under control. We can not continue to pile debt on top of debt. Interest on the debt is now the largest federal expenditure. There will be a reckoning that makes this look like nothing, which of course it isn't.

mandevilleag said:

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OregonAg03 said:

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These probationary employees did not get the 8 month severance. They were fired with no notice and no severance given.

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While true, everyone had the chance to take the deferred severance. Full disclosure, I'm a manager in the federal system, so I'm seeing this first hand. I lost four employees. One was probationary who I was planning to fire during the probationary period. We had had a few talks about their performance. He wisely took the deferred resignation. Another was retiring anyways on Feb 28. He took the deferred resignation and now has 8 more months of full benefits while not required to work. As an aside, he's an incredibly dedicated employee and will be helping to transition his work to another employee during the 8 month period. Another was probationary, but saw the writing on the wall, and took the deferred resignation. He just let me know that he's been offered a job, so he'll be "double dipping" for 8 months. The last was probationary, but decided not to take the deferred resignation. I had to let her know Friday morning. She knew it was a risk. She'll be fine, but she won't be getting the 8 months of full pay and benefits.

This is not without precedent in the federal system, but it's been a while. I support it, but it is hard not to take it personally. I think that's true in the private sector too. My agency is incredibly top-heavy, and I've witnessed the grade creep. I just hope that after right-sizing, that there are protocols in place to keep it from bloating again.

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This was not his situation. They were to pay for his relocation, that is pending. He has insurance until March. Nothing else.