Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

Robert Gates said that FJB has been on the wrong end of every foreign policy issues his entire career.

And you look at this walking corpse win a stolen election and not really controlling anything and yet, deep down, feel ...this is it. He's right about this one?

They impeached Trump for asking about how rotten this mess was, involving his son that was pardoned of all crimes going back to when this whole mess started, years ago.

In 2022, the favorability rating among Americans was over 70% approval. Now? Barely over 40% approval.

That is an incredible loss of goodwill and political capital for any leader, much less one during a war. He might hav been a great comedian but his political instincts are crap.

FIDO*98* said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

Do you want American troops/NATO in this fight. This is unwinnable for Ukraine and more people are dying because of our support

---

Of course not. I want a negotiated peace along current lines and Ukraine in NATO. And if not in NATO then security presence or arms for Ukraine to stave off any future Russian aggression.

Is that so bad?

And people are only dying because Russia invaded a sovereign nation. Don't forget that.

At least the moron is getting the message.

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

Robert Gates said that FJB has been on the wrong end of every foreign policy issues his entire career.

And you look at this walking corpse win a stolen election and not really controlling anything and yet, deep down, feel ...this is it. He's right about this one?

They impeached Trump for asking about how rotten this mess was, involving his son that was pardoned of all crimes going back to when this whole mess started, years ago.

---

Biden has completely mishandled the Ukraine war from the start.

Good

Reality is this:

1) Russia is keeping part of Ukraine. That's happening and nothing we are willing to do will ever stop it

2) Putin is a testosterone-filled, prideful dbag. To allow him to save some face with stopping at a sliver, there's gonna be a bit of flattery involved because stopping at a sliver is in reality defeat. Just not total defeat (which was never gonna happen).

3) zelensky and his grifters will need to decide giving up the sliver is worth not continuing to get their people killed. He needs to realize this is as good as it's gonna get

Trump's behavior plays to 2 and 3

aggiehawg said:

---

In 2022, the favorability rating among Americans was over 70% approval. Now? Barely over 40% approval.

That is an incredible loss of goodwill and political capital for any leader, much less one during a war. He might hav been a great comedian but his political instincts are crap.

---

Preach….Also, the United States has no obligation to protect the interests of Ukraine or any other European country in perpetuity. This is a collection of nations right now that continues to abandon Western values like people jumping out of a burning building. Europe is more than capable of footing the majority of the bill for their countries to defend themselves. Too many people in too many places are making way too much money off a war that has essentially been stalemated forever. This needs to end, and Europe needs to clean their own house.

Teslag said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The gall of that guy to want what's best for his country that's being invaded

---

Robert Gates said that FJB has been on the wrong end of every foreign policy issues his entire career.

And you look at this walking corpse win a stolen election and not really controlling anything and yet, deep down, feel ...this is it. He's right about this one?

They impeached Trump for asking about how rotten this mess was, involving his son that was pardoned of all crimes going back to when this whole mess started, years ago.

---

Biden has completely mishandled the Ukraine war from the start.

---

You actually believe Biden handled anything with respect to this war or anything else of significance? LOL

DannyDuberstein said:

---

Reality is this:

1) Russia is keeping part of Ukraine. That's happening and nothing we are willing to do will ever stop it

2) Putin is a testosterone-filled, prideful dbag. To allow him to save some face with stopping at a sliver, there's gonna be a bit of flattery involved because stopping at a sliver is in reality defeat. Just not total defeat (which was never gonna happen).

3) zelensky and his grifters will need to decide giving up the sliver is worth not continuing to get their people killed. He needs to realize this is as good as it's gonna get

Trump's behavior plays to 2 and 3

---

Fair take all around

RafterAg223 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

In 2022, the favorability rating among Americans was over 70% approval. Now? Barely over 40% approval.

That is an incredible loss of goodwill and political capital for any leader, much less one during a war. He might hav been a great comedian but his political instincts are crap.

---

Preach….Also, the United States has no obligation to protect the interests of Ukraine or any other European country in perpetuity. This is a collection of nations right now that continues to abandon Western values like people jumping out of a burning building. Europe is more than capable of footing the majority of the bill for their countries to defend themselves. Too many people in too many places are making way too much money off a war that has essentially been stalemated forever. This needs to end, and Europe needs to clean their own house.

---

Another fair take

That's a stupid question. I'm embarrassed for you.

We've spent enough in Ukraine. Trump was elected to put America first. No more money laundering.

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

Try selling us on the Ukrainian people rather than Zelensky. Nearly every politician is an unethical narcissistic - so you'll never win folks over to Zelensky. But the Ukrainian people - we can empathize with them. …although that's a more nuanced sale since the predominantly Russian eastern Ukrainians may be far less ideologically opposed to Russian control than the Kiev flavor Ukrainian.

Everyone that ever supported this "conflict" and our support of it in politics (and on this board), I have marked as a fool or a grifter or both.

What weapons grade dumbassrey. End this theft of our resources yesterday.

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

Try selling us on the Ukrainian people rather than Zelensky. Nearly every politician is an unethical narcissistic - so you'll never win folks over to Zelensky. But the Ukrainian people - we can empathize with them. …although that's a more nuanced sale since the predominantly Russian eastern Ukrainians may be far less ideologically opposed to Russian control than the Kiev flavor Ukrainian.

---

Also fair. But realistically anyone fighting for the Ukrainians would be in this position once it became political. The cold hard truth is that Ukraine needed foreign aid and weapons to fight off Russia. And to do that they would need to beg steal borrow and curry favor with the every western power they could. Just part of the game. If I my country were being invaded I'd want my leader to do the same and not a single ounce of me would want to surrender any of my countrymen for a quick deal. I'd literally rather ****ing die.

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

Try selling us on the Ukrainian people rather than Zelensky. Nearly every politician is an unethical narcissistic - so you'll never win folks over to Zelensky. But the Ukrainian people - we can empathize with them. …although that's a more nuanced sale since the predominantly Russian eastern Ukrainians may be far less ideologically opposed to Russian control than the Kiev flavor Ukrainian.

---

Far Eastern Ukraine has always fluctuated somewhere near a 50/50 split.

Quote:

---

Preach….Also, the United States has no obligation to protect the interests of Ukraine or any other European country in perpetuity. This is a collection of nations right now that continues to abandon Western values like people jumping out of a burning building. Europe is more than capable of footing the majority of the bill for their countries to defend themselves. Too many people in too many places are making way too much money off a war that has essentially been stalemated forever. This needs to end, and Europe needs to clean their own house.

---

We have always been an incredibly generous people as a whole. A great strength but also a weakness at times. But our tolerance was much longer than 3 years. Granted, we have learned a lot about Russian tactics, capabilities, weaponry and there is some large benefit to that. Valuable intel.

The f***ery of Obama's State Department in 2014 aside, Ukraine was not subject to The Pottery Barn Rule. We didn't break it. It was screwed up before 2014.

But at the end of the day, Zelensky overplayed his hand with the US...repeatedly.

Teslag said:

---

Get Off My Lawn said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

Try selling us on the Ukrainian people rather than Zelensky. Nearly every politician is an unethical narcissistic - so you'll never win folks over to Zelensky. But the Ukrainian people - we can empathize with them. …although that's a more nuanced sale since the predominantly Russian eastern Ukrainians may be far less ideologically opposed to Russian control than the Kiev flavor Ukrainian.

---

Also fair. But realistically anyone fighting for the Ukrainians would be in this position once it became political. The cold hard truth is that Ukraine needed foreign aid and weapons to fight off Russia. And to do that they would need to beg steal borrow and curry favor with the every western power they could. Just part of the game. If I my country were being invaded I'd want my leader to do the same and not a single ounce of me would want to surrender any of my countrymen for a quick deal. I'd literally rather ****ing die.

---

We have cartels murdering, raping, and selling drugs to kids. By all means, lets worry about some country that's 8 hours ahead of us, and their issues that have been an issue, before America was a country. Like I said before, Ukraine and Russia have been going at it for centuries. Most likely still will be at each other throats long after we are dead and gone. Stop wasting money on those potato vodka drunks and lets worry about our own backyard.

BigRobSA said:

---

Just checked Google maps .."Ukraine" is still in the area known as "not America". Zero ****s to give about that area.

---

Money post!

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

I don't blame Zelenskyy for resisting invasion. He did the right thing. But at this point, going on however many years it's been going on, Ukraine has proven and russia has proven that there will be no 'winner'. So…Zelenskyy should yield some territory, join nato and accept his lumps. He can end the senseless bloodshed of anymore of his people. He's not going to win. Period. Even if he does 'win', what's he win? Getting back the borders he had before? Bfd.

revvie said:

---

My question...what dirt does Putin have on Trump. He is KGB trained remember. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave right now. We are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over one of the charter members of the Axis of Evil.

---

So, you'd rather keep the war going with how many more killed? A million? 5 million? How many deaths are you good with. Trump is good with no more deaths. Ukraine will still be Ukraine. Russia will still be Russia. Trade will open between countries.

Shame on you.

newbie11 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

Teslag said:

---

deddog said:

---

newbie11 said:

---

If trump can mediate an end in which the war ceases and Russia gets a little land to save the rest of Ukrainian men and women from being killed, Zelenskyy and the world ought to see that as a win at this point.

Ukraine isn't going to win the war, I don't care how much money we send them. Putin is crazy and won't quit so anything remotely reasonable should be offered to end it.

If Zelenskyy thinks, Ukraine can somehow win without nato putting boots on the ground, he's as crazy as Putin.

---

Yup. And if we really , truly gave a **** about Ukraine, we'd put boots on the ground. Ukraine let themselves be played. Electing Zelensky and trying to join Nato was, in hindsight, a devastating decision.

---

None of that is why Russia invaded. They simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia.

---

My point is that if we really , truly did give a **** about Ukraine we would have put boots on the ground.
We clearly don't care enough. Let someone who truly cares for Ukraine spend their money.

---

If we really cared about Ukraine we wouldn't have put them in NATO after 2014 and then this war never ever happened.

---

Agreed.
Ukraine got played in a war between superpowers.

---

I think it's clear Russia is no longer a superpower

---

Then it makes little sense to waste our money and Ukraine lives to grind them down. The threat is China, not Russia. Always has been.

---

This is a fair take as well. I think people can easily make arguments like this without justifying Russia's actions and castigating Zelenskyy for simply resisting an invasion.

Agree?

---

I don't blame Zelenskyy for resisting invasion. He did the right thing. But at this point, going on however many years it's been going on, Ukraine has proven and russia has proven that there will be no 'winner'. So…Zelenskyy should yield some territory, join nato and accept his lumps. He can end the senseless bloodshed of anymore of his people. He's not going to win. Period. Even if he does 'win', what's he win? Getting back the borders he had before? Bfd.

---

He probably would. What makes you think Russia would agree to this?

I sure hope Europe steps up and fills the void we are leaving to fight the Russian aggression. I'd call them our European allies but Trump may put an end to that. What a debacle.

Hullabaloonatic said:

---

I don't understand why you're celebrating the downfall of an ally. Truly baffling times we're in where Republicans cheer for Russia.

---

Before Russia invaded, the left was telling us that Zelensky was the fascist leader of neo Nazis.

No they weren't. That's reserved for the "conservatives" parroting Russian talking points. The Jewish Nazi.

Zelenskyy wasn't even elected when Russia first invaded in 2014.

Trump has already taken NATO off the table and Russia has a current nonnegotiable of no outside security guarantees or external troops of any sort in Ukraine. Soooo…

Rossticus said:

---

Trump has already taken NATO off the table and Russia has a current nonnegotiable of no outside security guarantees or external troops of any sort in Ukraine. Soooo…

---

So let's bring them to the table to negotiate "nonnegotiables". Maybe start with 500 or so JASSM's

Quote:

---

I don't understand why you're celebrating the downfall of an ally.

---

Tell us everything you know about our historic alliance and mutual defense agreements with Ukraine.

While you're at it, without googling, name a Ukrainian leader not named Zelensky - from any time in history.

revvie said:

---

My question...what dirt does Putin have on Trump. He is KGB trained remember. Ronald Reagan is rolling over in his grave right now. We are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over one of the charter members of the Axis of Evil.

---

I have no doubt there are ties to Russian oligarchs involved.

Screw zalensky. Trump should demand he return the fraudulently donated money given to him by biden.

I know the US helped convince Ukraine to give up their nukes when the wall fell. I guess that was a poor decision on their part.

I can't wait for us to ally up with North Korea too! That's gonna be great! Three countries run by dictators!

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

He should talk to me. I don't think "not feeling supported" would be his conclusion.

---

This struck me right on my funny bone.

Jugstore Cowboy said:

---

Quote:

---

I don't understand why you're celebrating the downfall of an ally.

---

Tell us everything you know about our historic alliance and mutual defense agreements with Ukraine.

While you're at it, without googling, name a Ukrainian leader not named Zelensky - from any time in history.

---

How about a couple bullet points.

We (and Russia) gave security assurances to Ukraine for giving up their nukes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

Ukraine's president in 2014 was Yanukovych but he was overthrown for being a Russian puppet. He proved the doubters wrong by… fleeing to Russia, where he remains to this day. Sadly the vaunted Russian army was unable to take Kiev and return him to power.

I guess they got bogged down by documenting all the biolabs and Nazis and stealing appliances.

Nice punctuation. How long will this handle last?