Ellis Wyatt said:

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Is the AFD in Germany more or less like MAGA or are they really "far right"? On the one hand it's Germany. I can understand their being on guard against fascism and a collective guilt. On the other, not every movement of wanting to preserve your own country is going to lead to another Holocaust. I gotta tell you, I have watched some youtube videos of reporting about AFD and their supporters. The one-sided reporting looks pretty damn familiar and Vance's remark about "ignoring please for relief" is what comes to mind. Im still looking searching and reading but would appreciate any insights.

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Europeans don't view left and right the way we do.

Plus, much of their viewpoint is shaped by globalists, and apparently, American taxpayer dollar-funded leftist propaganda.

Anything to the right of an authoritarian is far right to them these days. They are full-blown socialists with dwindling civil rights.

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Any country that doesn't recognize fundamental rights, or God given rights, will ALWAYS be susceptible to government tyranny creep.

I never took the time to read the EU constitution when they wrote it and passed it, but it's the absolute perfect example of a document written by elites (we know better than you) by hiding the Digital Services Act. Every single Democrat in America would vote for it and even some Republicans.

What's really funny is your last sentence. Every single "authoritarian" (I know you know this) view point and action comes from the fascist/socialist/communist left, very similar to here. Since all of those countries forbid gun ownership, it's going to be MUCH more difficult to gather political momentum and consequently political dominance. I don't know what they're going to do. In one way, I don't feel sorry for the ignorant brethren, as they voted for it. They'll either get their **** together and fight back or just learn to enjoy serfdom, which they appear quite happy to do. Their muslim overlords will certainly love it.

rgvag11 said:

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AfD is considered the equivalent of the Nazi party in Germany. The other right party, CDU, has had a decades-old 'agreement' not to team up with them. T

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Decades old, huh?

With a party that was formed in 2013?

To put things in perspective, just realize the the US Republican Party would be considered a "far-right extremist" party everywhere in Europe.

And that was BEFORE MAGA...

AFD is a pretty moderate conservative party by US standards. One thing that bothers me about them is they want to distance themselves from the US and move toward closer relations with Russia and China. They'd like to boot US military bases out of Germany.

Anything right of Marx is "far right" so far as I can tell in europe

Buck Turgidson said:

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AFD is a pretty moderate conservative party by US standards. One thing that bothers me about them is they want to distance themselves from the US and move toward closer relations with Russia and China. They'd like to boot US military bases out of Germany.

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I would almost be surprised if key players in the AFD weren't bought off by China. I wouldn't be surprised if they are a "controlled" opposition. Not fully but enough to prevent unity.

rgvag11 said:

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AfD is considered the equivalent of the Nazi party in Germany.

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I call BS on that. If that was true why aren't they outlawed?

TexAgs91 said:

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rgvag11 said:

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AfD is considered the equivalent of the Nazi party in Germany.

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I call BS on that. If that was true why aren't they outlawed?

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Check the article I posted: they call it a firewall.

Some EU dbag was hinting that the German elections could be reversed if AFD won too many votes. Just like they recently did in Romania.

The German economy requires importing cheap energy and most of that comes from Russia. The various sanctions on Russian energy (and the US destruction of the German/Russia pipeline) are killing their economy.

The rest of the establishment parties over there have all just agreed to ignore the obvious that the US was behind that pipeline destruction. That and unchecked illegal immigration (mostly from Muslim countries) are the reasons for the rise of the AfD.

The AfD isn't anti-America. They are just for putting their own citizens/countries interests first.

Buck Turgidson said:

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AFD is a pretty moderate conservative party by US standards. One thing that bothers me about them is they want to distance themselves from the US and move toward closer relations with Russia and China. They'd like to boot US military bases out of Germany.

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I also would like to "boot" the US bases from Germany. Some people need to wake up the fact that our country is broke and completely in debt. Also this isn't 1945 anymore. German can, and should, pay for its own defense.

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violence plotted by politicians using Muslim migrants against Jews and anyone native to Germany

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FIFY

twk said:

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rgvag11 said:

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AfD is considered the equivalent of the Nazi party in Germany. The other right party, CDU, has had a decades-old 'agreement' not to team up with them. T

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By the bien pensant idiots who have run Germany into the ground, not by the considerable chunk of the electorate that supports them, unless you think 20% of Germans are Nazis.

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Well, 40% of US citizens think anyone to the right of Karl Marx is a Nazi, so I could believe it.

What's said above is correct, that he Euro term of "far right" is not one-to-one with what an American would identify within our own political spectrum. In part that's because their starting point of 'neutral' or 'centrist' is well left of where our social-political benchmark is. In some instances moderately conservative policies here would be termed 'far right' over there, not as a blanket rule but you can take the general idea.

There's also an entire social mind-frame in Germany that we do not have here, which bluntly can be described as lingering national guilt from the world wars. That in turn leads to a mass aversion to nationalism or the appearance of nationalism, which politically presents as overcompensating to redress past transgressions by being even more subservient to other states and castigating German state pride.

At its core I think the growing support for AfD is very simple to explain.

Normal Germans feel like they are being ethnically cleansed in their own country by the globalist elites who govern it.

They want to make Germany German again so that when their kids and grandkids are grownups they'll still be living in a country that looks and feels like home.

Wes97 said:

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Buck Turgidson said:

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AFD is a pretty moderate conservative party by US standards. One thing that bothers me about them is they want to distance themselves from the US and move toward closer relations with Russia and China. They'd like to boot US military bases out of Germany.

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I also would like to "boot" the US bases from Germany. Some people need to wake up the fact that our country is broke and completely in debt. Also this isn't 1945 anymore. German can, and should, pay for its own defense.

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Bases overseas aren't necessarily for protection of Europe anymore.

They're staging points for our projection of power worldwide. If someone gets seriously hurt In that part of the world, they go to Ramstein to get taken care of, for example.

Lots of bases have been closed overseas. The one I lived on in Germany - Darmstadt Army Base - closed awhile ago. The one we were at in England - RAF Chicksands - closed too.

Ag with kids said:

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To put things in perspective, just realize the the US Republican Party would be considered a "far-right extremist" party everywhere in Europe.

And that was BEFORE MAGA...

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Correct. Best example -- Europe called Boehner's GOP hard right with the opposition to Obamacare vote.

EX TEXASEX said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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The Afd is run by a lesbian. So it's not that far right. It is good on immigration though.

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Strange that there has never been a " Far left " party in all of the countries in Europe ? Like the " Greens " apparently they are the middle of the road moderates as well as commie/socialist parties.

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I haven't seen the MSM use the term "far left" since at least Reagan. It doesn't exist in the lexicon of the western global powers and was long ago blackballed from use outside of some possible outlier examples.

YouBet said:

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EX TEXASEX said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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The Afd is run by a lesbian. So it's not that far right. It is good on immigration though.

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Strange that there has never been a " Far left " party in all of the countries in Europe ? Like the " Greens " apparently they are the middle of the road moderates as well as commie/socialist parties.

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I haven't seen the MSM use the term "far left" since at least Reagan. It doesn't exist in the lexicon of the western global powers and was long ago blackballed from use outside of some possible outlier examples.

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Well, when they think Karl Marx is a centrist, it's hard for them to explain what would be further left.

Christine Anderson is an AfD member of the European Parliament.

Absolute fire from Christine Anderson as she takes a stand in the EU!

‘President Trump is showing us the way. And unless we want to go down in history as complete idiots we should follow his lead.

Green deal, USAID, WHO, take it all down and give us DOGE instead so we can… pic.twitter.com/TLtcUwE6yf

— Kat A 🌸 (@SaiKate108) February 18, 2025

"In the entire history of time there has never been a political elite sincerely concerned about the well being of regular people"
This speech at the European Union from Christine Anderson @AndersonAfDMdEP from 2021 is spot on and one of my favorites. pic.twitter.com/OnxcNBPzam

— Ryan Gerritsen🇨🇦🇳🇱 (@ryangerritsen) February 9, 2025

She's an interesting character.

German elections are today, not sure if we will see projections this afternoon, but probably. Here's a great blog piece about the various parties that explains their status/history fairly succinctly. Hopefully, somehow, AfD exceeds the 21% forecast and is able to form a government.

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7) Alternative fr Deutschland, or the AfD. In the wake of the 2008 Euro crisis, Angela Merkel repeatedly characterised unpopular countermeasures whether bank nationalisations or financial aid for a beleaguered Greece as "without alternative." In response, a small group of disenchanted former CDU members founded Alternative for Germany in 2013 as a moderately Eurosceptic party opposed to the financial policies of the Eurozone. Merkel fed the AfD via her characteristic political strategy of asymmetric demobilisation, according to which she would preemptively adopt for herself the programme of the opposition (particularly of the Greens) to deny them campaign issues. Thus many of Merkel's signature policies, from the nuclear phase-out to open borders, have a distinctive leftist flavour to them. As Merkel transformed the CDU into a standard European centre-right party, she left her right flank unguarded, and the AfD grew to fill this empty political space. The AfD political programme has accordingly expanded over time. You might think of the present AfD as consisting, very roughly, of three parts. There is the older market-liberal contingent, from which the present leadership hail. Separate from them is the nationalist contingent around figures like Björn Höcke in Thringen and Maximilian Krah, who draw the greater part of the (disingenuous) Nazi accusations. Beyond the strict bounds of the party, meanwhile, is the Vorfeld, its "forefield" or "apron" a loose group of activists, social media personalities and the like who skew younger, often have unapologetic nationalist tendencies and contribute much of its cultural energy. The AfD benefit from the self-destruction of the Union parties and also from the native working classes, who are leaving the SPD in droves. Tomorrow they will do better than they ever have before, with perhaps 21% of the vote.

From the first moments of the AfD's existence well before the nationalists ever appeared in their ranks they have been branded as an extreme-right party, and the CDU have rigorously enforced a firewall against them, pledging that they will never achieve any legislative or governmental outcomes with AfD support. Merkel and the rest of the CDU leadership feared that any approach would legitimise the upstarts and set off mass defections to their rivals. These views still hold strong within CDU leadership, but a growing number of CDU members question the wisdom of this strategy.

If the German political landscape seems complicated, that is because the traditional parties have proven too inflexible to incorporate new political currents on the one hand, while nevertheless managing to survive on the loyalty of older German voters on the other hand. Since the late 1990s, the three mid-century parties have fused with the Greens to form a political cartel one in which the Greens mostly set the agenda while the CDU positions itself to provide majorities. The Greens enjoy sufficient cultural power that they can influence the political agenda even if they find themselves in the opposition. You could say, with only slight exaggeration, that the cartel parties function as a single disorganised uniparty among themselves. Only the Greens and the AfD demonstrate any strategic aptitude and any interest in delivering to their voters.

Put another way: German politics presently hosts two different political systems in competition with each other. Against the cartel are arrayed the unincorporated upstarts (AfD above all, but also BSW and perhaps also Die Linke) who betoken a new politics that the establishment is fighting desperately to suppress. The firewall, originally conceived to contain CDU voters under Angela Merkel, has become the final defence against this new politics and the singular lynchpin of the cartel's power. The most unusual feature of the present election is the support that the AfD have received from prominent Trumpist Americans like Elon Musk and J.D. Vance. The cartel parties, including the CDU, perceive this advocacy as a direct attack, and they have responded by doubling down on the firewall, because if and when it falls, German politics will change forever. Their sinecures, their grants, their activist organisations and eventually even much of their sympathetic media will disappear, as the SPD and especially the Greens lose their relevance at the national level and the Union parties enter a terminal decline.

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Germany, we did our part in electing President Trump.

Today is Election Day in your country.

Vote AfD.

— ThePersistence (@ScottPresler) February 23, 2025

🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪 AfD! 🇩🇪🇩🇪🇩🇪

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) February 23, 2025

What will be interesting is if AfD manages to overperform - say they get 25% of the vote, and the Union parties pull in about the same. The SPD is toast in this one after botching the last four years, and I can see younger members of the SPD who are not as ideologically driven moving to AfD. Does the firewall break down? CDU/CSU caught hell for voting with AfD on an immigration measure a month ago, so there is already a small crack in the anti-AfD facade.

I would be very surprised if Merz forms a coalition with the AfD. If I had to guess, the CDU pulls down around 30% and forms a government with the SPD and Greens. Perhaps only one of them if they can get the 50% majority required between the two.

EX TEXASEX said:

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Strange that there has never been a " Far left " party in all of the countries in Europe ? Like the " Greens " apparently they are the middle of the road moderates as well as commie/socialist parties.

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Germany has two far-left parties that are aiming to secure seats in the Bundestag, and would happily describe themselves as such.

YokelRidesAgain said:

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EX TEXASEX said:

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Strange that there has never been a " Far left " party in all of the countries in Europe ? Like the " Greens " apparently they are the middle of the road moderates as well as commie/socialist parties.

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Germany has two far-left parties that are aiming to secure seats in the Bundestag, and would happily describe themselves as such.

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No they wouldn't. The use of "far" is marginalizing language.

"Far Right" is used because it marginalizes and paints the right as an extremist party.

"Far Left" is never used because they want to always position themselves as "normal" and a counter to "extremism".

They are Far Left, but they would never call themselves that.

BSW and Die Linke (The Left) are two parties that would happily describe themselves as far left. And they can keep their tiny ass amount of seats in the Bundestag for all i care.

FancyKetchup14 said:

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BSW and Die Linke (The Left) are two parties that would happily describe themselves as far left. And they can keep their tiny ass amount of seats in the Bundestag for all i care.

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I looked up these two and you are correct they do call themselves "far left".

Thank you both for the Sunday morning schooling.

There's a small argument that the parliamentary system giving the far left their own enclave outside of the mainstream is something that would be good for America as well. The counter to that is that what Merkel did, starving the far left parties of votes by adopting their issues, would then be the result, though. The Democrat party being run by far left ideologues/extremists is a problem, though.

Farmer_J said:

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twk said:

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I'm no expert on German politics, but from what I've read, AfD has some nut cases in it. They aren't particularly friendly to America, either. But, with proportional representation, it's pretty stupid to rule out working a party that may get the 2nd largest number of votes in the election on Sunday (they are around 20%, and the right of center Christian Democrats are expected to come first with 30%). Just like in France, telling a large chunk of the electorate that they cannot participate because of their views is not a good idea.

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Where did you read it?

I read that trump was a dictator who was never going to leave office.

I read that elon is a nazi who gave everyone a nazi salute.

I read that the republican party wants all poor people to starve.

I read that the Republican party wants to put black people back in chains.

How can we believe anything we hear from European news that is totally corrupt?

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How about if we forget news sources and look at some quotes by AfD politicians.

A number of members have made antisemitic remarks including questioning the holocaust.

In October of last year, co-chair Tito Chrupalla criticized the chancellor's support of Israel by suppling weapons.

AfD parliament member Jurgen Pohl said, "Israel is allowed to do anything, the others nothing, and we are supposed to support that."

There also seems to be a lot of dissent within the party as one AfD member said this about Chrupalls views on Israel, "it's left-wing pacifist nonsense. It would be refreshing if Chrupalla just once would take a position on foreign policy that differs from Moscow's,"

So yeah, there's a few screws loose in that party.

aggiedent said:

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Farmer_J said:

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twk said:

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I'm no expert on German politics, but from what I've read, AfD has some nut cases in it. They aren't particularly friendly to America, either. But, with proportional representation, it's pretty stupid to rule out working a party that may get the 2nd largest number of votes in the election on Sunday (they are around 20%, and the right of center Christian Democrats are expected to come first with 30%). Just like in France, telling a large chunk of the electorate that they cannot participate because of their views is not a good idea.

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Where did you read it?

I read that trump was a dictator who was never going to leave office.

I read that elon is a nazi who gave everyone a nazi salute.

I read that the republican party wants all poor people to starve.

I read that the Republican party wants to put black people back in chains.

How can we believe anything we hear from European news that is totally corrupt?

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How about if we forget news sources and look at some quotes by AfD politicians.

A number of members have made antisemitic remarks including questioning the holocaust.

In October of last year, co-chair Tito Chrupalla criticized the chancellor's support of Israel by suppling weapons.

AfD parliament member Jurgen Pohl said, "Israel is allowed to do anything, the others nothing, and we are supposed to support that."

There also seems to be a lot of dissent within the party as one AfD member said this about Chrupalls views on Israel, "it's left-wing pacifist nonsense. It would be refreshing if Chrupalla just once would take a position on foreign policy that differs from Moscow's,"

So yeah, there's a few screws loose in that party.

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There always are in every party. Unfortunately, the far left parties over there and here (Democrats) tend to be made up of a much greater share of crazies than the right. They just get the advantage of having the entire MSM apparatus to carry their water.

Really hope the AfD gets enough to matter in Germany so there can be a counter to the far left there.

BTKAG97 said:

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ADDED: Click the 3rd Link for the AFD "Manifesto for Germany". It's a .pdf written in English for insights.

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Thanks for the info. I looked through the table of contents, and didn't really see anything that wouldn't fit in the Republican Party platform.

AfD has an optics problem due to things like its members' comments on the Berlin Holocaust Memorial. But they do support Israel inasmuch as they see it as the West's line of defense against Islamic terrorism.

twk said:

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rgvag11 said:

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AfD is considered the equivalent of the Nazi party in Germany. The other right party, CDU, has had a decades-old 'agreement' not to team up with them. T

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By the bien pensant idiots who have run Germany into the ground, not by the considerable chunk of the electorate that supports them, unless you think 20% of Germans are Nazis.

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Maybe the German equivalent of Gallup or Pew should run a poll saying "Do you think that Germany should invade Poland and force its population into slave labor?" If 20% say yes, then it will be accurate to call them Nazis.

EVERYTHING is far right, when your on the far left.