Mr.Milkshake said:

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Anything human piloted is obsolete

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Not necessarily. Advanced close in air combat should be extremely rare for this platform, and it will be able to most likely effectively shoot in almost any direction with the appropriate missile.

The human pilot will be the decision maker on site, that can't be jammed or interfered with while operating the strike package and seeing the mission through. I imagine they'll eventually be able to replace the pilot in some aircraft with special mission packages or more electronics in the cockpit space but for now, having a highly trained person at the point of engagement will matter.

Stymied said:

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Not really. If Lockheed won, it likely would have further cemented them as the only US fighter manufacturer. Boeing (McD) makes F-15EXs and F-18s but it they didn't win, they likely begin winding this down before any new bids ever come around.

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Boeing was also a major sub on the F-22.

True, though that work was all done by Boeing Seattle. Almost all of of Boeing's military fighter IP and engineering work comes from McDonnell Douglas in St Louis and they lost the F-22 bid with their YF-23 offering that was a joint effort between McD and Northrop.

Stymied said:

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I think you can say the same thing about any major government contractor. Not going to defend Boeing but there are very few major defense platforms that didn't come with a ton of delays.

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I don't understand why all the finger pointing is towards contractors. There's plenty of blame to be shared with Govies that don't understand the definitions of 'requirements' and 'contract'. The threat of losing future business or profit damaging award fee scores is used quite often to arm twist contractors in to agreements which are not executable.

Good I need my Boeing stock to rise.

Rocky Rider said:

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Stymied said:

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I think you can say the same thing about any major government contractor. Not going to defend Boeing but there are very few major defense platforms that didn't come with a ton of delays.

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I don't understand why all the finger pointing is towards contractors. There's plenty of blame to be shared with Govies that don't understand the definitions of 'requirements' and 'contract'. The threat of losing future business or profit damaging award fee scores is used quite often to arm twist contractors in to agreements which are not executable.

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100%

Further, it seems the bids are always sporty. After contract award, reality sets in and voila... schedule/cost issues. There's a big love affair with COTS (commercial off the shelf) components because they are supposedly less expensive, but that's not aways the case, especially with respect to more complicated aircraft systems.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Mr.Milkshake said:

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Anything human piloted is obsolete

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Not necessarily. Advanced close in air combat should be extremely rare for this platform, and it will be able to most likely effectively shoot in almost any direction with the appropriate missile.

The human pilot will be the decision maker on site, that can't be jammed or interfered with while operating the strike package and seeing the mission through. I imagine they'll eventually be able to replace the pilot in some aircraft with special mission packages or more electronics in the cockpit space but for now, having a highly trained person at the point of engagement will matter.

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Ha. Could very well be. Can't help but think of Buck Rogers when the Draconians shot down all the auto-pilot ones of the squadron and he had to switch to manual to get out of the trap. Sci Fi sure, but some lessons may prove timeless.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BOEING DON'T F THIS UP !!! NO DEI AND DON'T LET THE CHICOMS STEAL EVERYTHING LIKE YOU ALL DID WITH C-17 GLOBE MASTER !!!!

Anxiety rant concluded.


Chyna's Y-20 developed by America. The nickname for this plane in Chyna is " Chubby Girl "

?resize=1200:*

If this has bombing capabilities, what are the odds it will be used on American citizens during its lifespan?

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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If this has bombing capabilities, what are the odds it will be used on American citizens during its lifespan?

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Probably depends on whether the Left gets back into power in 2028 or 2032. Otherwise far less likely.

F-47

Lol, troll level 1000

if its Boeing I ain't going

Three huge additional notes:

"Allvin said in a statement Friday that experimental versions of the NGAD have been flying for the last five years.

Allvin said the significant advance experimentation and work on the F-47 will allow the service to fly the jet by the end of Trump's administration.

Allvin said the F-47 would cost less than the F-22 and "be more adaptable to future threats," and that the Air Force will have more NGAD fighters in its fleet than Raptors."

F-47

The idea is that the manned aircraft is ~15% of the steel in the sky. One NGAD will work with 5-6 Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA). These are, essentially, unmanned loyal wingmen that tasked by the manned aircraft.

Big win for Boeing. Expect the USN F/A-XX announcement soon and that it will also be Boeing.

Fightin_Aggie said:

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F-47

Lol, troll level 1000

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Nah, that's sycophancy level 1000. But whatever works..........

EX TEXASEX said:

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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BOEING DON'T F THIS UP !!! NO DEI AND DON'T LET THE CHICOMS STEAL EVERYTHING LIKE YOU ALL DID WITH C-17 GLOBE MASTER !!!!

Anxiety rant concluded.


Chyna's Y-20 developed by America. The nickname for this plane in Chyna is " Chubby Girl "

?resize=1200:*

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Do you realize that when designing a plane to carry out a specific function, there are only so many configurations which will work?

The Soviets had something similar long before the C-17. The IL-76 first flew 20 years before the C-17.



The Chicom plane looks like a C-17 and IL-76 had a kid.

74OA said:

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Fightin_Aggie said:

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F-47

Lol, troll level 1000

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Nah, that's sycophancy level 1000. But whatever works..........

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There's something that tops that in court homage. Read how the Queen Mary got its name. ;-) Funny story.

ord89 said:

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The idea is that the manned aircraft is ~15% of the steel in the sky. One NGAD will work with 5-6 Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA). These are, essentially, unmanned loyal wingmen that tasked by the manned aircraft.

Big win for Boeing. Expect the USN F/A-XX announcement soon and that it will also be Boeing.

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CCA
AI

Ag83 said:

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That's the MANTA RAY

No, I get that aerodynamics pusheses all developers in the same direction. Exact same thing for stealth. However, this guy stole tons of C-17 technical info,, and the Chicoms used that to build the Y-20 Chubby Girl. He also helped to steal a huge amount of data for the F-22F-22 and F-35. Why he wasn't executed by us once we got our hands on him from the Canucks is beyond me. I know they are ******* when it comes to the death penalty, but we should have played hardball. We need to stop letting Chinese nationals immigrate to the West. A huge % will spy forr the CCP and have zero loyalty to their new country!!

Quote:

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Su Bin had pled guilty in federal court in Los Angeles to helping two Chinese military hackers. Among the targets of the hacking efforts was information on the U.S. F-22 and F-35 stealth fighters as well as Boeing's C-17 transport aircraft, which is also used by the Canadian air force.

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Quote:

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The theft of information on the C-17 aircraft made "important contributions to our national defense scientific research development," one of the Chinese military officers wrote in an email intercepted by the U.S.

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https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/owner-of-b-c-aerospace-firm-gets-prison-sentence-for-stealing-information-on-f-35-fighter

74OA said:

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Ag83 said:

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MANTA RAY

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These will both be a nightmare for the chicoms if deployed in large numbers




boeing orca xluuv

https://www.twz.com/news-features/what-the-navys-massive-orca-submarine-drone-is-actually-capable-of

Boeing's win came down to avoiding having the US industrial base wither to one fighter producer and only two stealth aircraft producers.

"Some onlookers are concerned that if NGAD is canceled, the Defense Department could eventually lose Boeing as a producer of fighter aircraft, leaving Lockheed as the only game in town. "If you go down this route, with F-15EX nearing the end and F/A-18 [sunsetting], you're left with one company that produces fighter jets," said Stacie Pettyjohn, the director of defense programs at the Center for a New American Security."

TOUGH DECISION

Agree. Putting all our eggs in one company to make fighters from now on would have been a disater. This played a large role in them getting it I believe. I wish Northrop Grumman got it . They are doing an AMAZING JOB with the B-21. They are setting the gold standard for a great run military program !!!

EX TEXASEX said:

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Agree. Putting all our eggs in one company to make fighters from now on would have been a disater. This played a large role in them getting it I believe. I wish Northrop Grumman got it . They are doing an AMAZING JOB with the B-21. They are setting the gold standard for a great run military program !!!

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Yep, essential to preserve contract competition and as broad as possible base of research and production expertise.

74OA said:

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Boeing's win came down to avoiding having the US industrial base wither to one fighter producer and only two stealth aircraft producers.

"Some onlookers are concerned that if NGAD is canceled, the Defense Department could eventually lose Boeing as a producer of fighter aircraft, leaving Lockheed as the only game in town. "If you go down this route, with F-15EX nearing the end and F/A-18 [sunsetting], you're left with one company that produces fighter jets," said Stacie Pettyjohn, the director of defense programs at the Center for a New American Security."

TOUGH DECISION

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I seriously don't think we can rule out Boeing winning this to help them overall. The same argument here also applies to commercial aviation. Boeing is one of those "too big to fail" companies and if they fail you are left with one commercial airplane manufacturer.

Awarding this to them may be enough of a lifeline to help get them through their current ****show.

Here's some news on the advanced engine intended for NGAD.

NGAP

Yep.

EX TEXASEX said:

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Agree. Putting all our eggs in one company to make fighters from now on would have been a disaster. This played a large role in them getting it I believe. I wish Northrop Grumman got it . They are doing an AMAZING JOB with the B-21. They are setting the gold standard for a great run military program !!!

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NG wasn't bidding the USAF NGAD project.

big gov money suck

boeing is the worst

I know. I should been more clear with where I was going with that statement. Historically you ALWAYS hear about military programs being a fanancial diaster and riddled with incompetence ect. NG is doing an amazing job with the B-21 based on everthing I have read and heard. I have never heard such praise EVER for a program. I really wish they would have bid. ( Why leave 47 billion on the table without even trying ? ) vs. the reality of Boeing being the winner.

NG is in the running for the navy NGAD

I knew they were seprate programs, but I didn't realize they were bidding for the Navy NGAD. I hope they win !!!
One company I really like and want to buy their stock the second the go public is Anduril !!!!

Well **** me.

Time to retire