flown-the-coop said:

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It's the governments job to make sure you have police, fire and EMS, a road to your property, electricity, and also that the Russians don't parachute in and take down peoples Ukraine flags.

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The road to my house predates the State of Texas, the privately owned power lines to my house predate ERCOT/TxPUC by about 35-40 years, and we have our own volunteer fire department and accomodate the sheriff's dept parking there on private property.

No Ukrainian flags, though. Russkies are welcome to come try something else if they're feeling sporting.

People aren't very reliant upon the state government. Necessary functions could be performed with 10% of the workforce. Students have the same academic performance in old school buildings as in brand new ones.

180 year old roads and 85-90 year old power lines. I think I will pass on that arrangement.

Point being, these things existed prior to the state taxing residents to pay for their oversight.

Oversight as in maintenance and replacements?

In order to have a government you have to have some method of funding that government.

I think you and I would likely agree we could do a much better job at efficiency, fairness, accountability and sources of those funds and subjects of those expenditures.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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I'm all for replacing property tax with a sales tax, but I don't see that as being very likely.

I do think that property taxes shouldn't be allowed to go up after 65. Too many people get priced out of homes they've been in for 25+ years with taxes going up pretty much every year. And if you buy a new house after 65, your tax is based on the value at that time.

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Uh, they don't. Your taxes are frozen at 65.

ProgN said:

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Statewide tax, not county.

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So we should give complete control over sales taxes to the state?

The primary reason we won't see change to property tax in Texas is because half your property taxes fund your local ISD. Until someone comes up with an alternate, creative solution for funding schools major reform here will be a no go.

Once you start talking about upheaval to that system, then gird your loins because you will have an absolute firestorm on your hands. There is no way you will get agreement on just having a sales tax for everything because collections would be perceived as too variable and inconsistent compared to income and property, right or wrong. Take the animosity and 180 opinions on school vouchers and ratchet that up about 1000% if you start talking cutting down property taxes significantly or all together.

In addition, we have a constitutional amendment barring a state income tax which would require a 2/3 vote in both chambers and then a statewide vote to enact. No sane person would vote to implement this knowing that you essentially just approved your government to rape you even harder.

Our tax system is a zero sum game whether you agree with it or not so you either going to pay what you currently pay whether it's property, income, or sales. With the current system rigged against an income tax, that leaves you with property and/or sales. And property is more consistent and easily manipulated to go higher to ensure ever increasing spending by the state. You have to pay your property taxes; you don't have to buy extraneous stuff.

Congress would have to lift the SALT cap, but Trump did express support for it during the campaign.

YouBet said:

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The primary reason we won't see change to property tax in Texas is because half your property taxes fund your local ISD. Until someone comes up with an alternate, creative solution for funding schools major reform here will be a no go.

Once you start talking about upheaval to that system, then gird your loins because you will have an absolute firestorm on your hands. There is no way you will get agreement on just having a sales tax for everything because collections would be perceived as too variable and inconsistent compared to income and property, right or wrong. Take the animosity and 180 opinions on school vouchers and ratchet that up about 1000% if you start talking cutting down property taxes significantly or all together.

In addition, we have a constitutional amendment barring a state income tax which would require a 2/3 vote in both chambers and then a statewide vote to enact. No sane person would vote to implement this knowing that you essentially just approved your government to rape you even harder.

Our tax system is a zero sum game whether you agree with it or not so you either going to pay what you currently pay whether it's property, income, or sales. With the current system rigged against an income tax, that leaves you with property and/or sales. And property is more consistent and easily manipulated to go higher to ensure ever increasing spending by the state. You have to pay your property taxes; you don't have to buy extraneous stuff.

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ISDs put their bond requests on the ballot in offseason elections, such as now. They know that retirees, whose taxes are frozen, are the highest percentage of voters in those are retirees and they promote "for the children" bull***** The retirees say they want to help the children because they don't have to pay for the increase. I say, remove the age cap for retirees and let them feel the effects of voting "for the children" directly. Maybe then they'll stop voting to virtuously spend other citizens money.

I thought the Texas Lottery was going to fund schools…?

At least that was the story back in the 1990's when those sinners clamored for it.

ProgN said:

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YouBet said:

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The primary reason we won't see change to property tax in Texas is because half your property taxes fund your local ISD. Until someone comes up with an alternate, creative solution for funding schools major reform here will be a no go.

Once you start talking about upheaval to that system, then gird your loins because you will have an absolute firestorm on your hands. There is no way you will get agreement on just having a sales tax for everything because collections would be perceived as too variable and inconsistent compared to income and property, right or wrong. Take the animosity and 180 opinions on school vouchers and ratchet that up about 1000% if you start talking cutting down property taxes significantly or all together.

In addition, we have a constitutional amendment barring a state income tax which would require a 2/3 vote in both chambers and then a statewide vote to enact. No sane person would vote to implement this knowing that you essentially just approved your government to rape you even harder.

Our tax system is a zero sum game whether you agree with it or not so you either going to pay what you currently pay whether it's property, income, or sales. With the current system rigged against an income tax, that leaves you with property and/or sales. And property is more consistent and easily manipulated to go higher to ensure ever increasing spending by the state. You have to pay your property taxes; you don't have to buy extraneous stuff.

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ISDs put their bond requests on the ballot in offseason elections, such as now. They know that retirees, whose taxes are frozen, are the highest percentage of voters in those are retirees and they promote "for the children" bull***** The retirees say they want to help the children because they don't have to pay for the increase. I say, remove the age cap for retirees and let them feel the effects of voting "for the children" directly. Maybe then they'll stop voting to virtuously spend other citizens money.

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That's another thing. These bond proposals are on top of property taxes and they are always marketed as free money with no impact to the taxpayers. lol. I voted against three different DISD bond proposals when we lived there and all three passed with flying colors. Stupid voters but then Dallas County is a deep blue county so we never had a chance there.

I live in a deep red district and all the ISD's bond votes pass easily in off elections because retirees are sheltered from the consequences of their votes. Remove that protection and let them feel the pain of their votes.

And what's funny about that is that Missouri is trying to start a lottery now and that is one of the states talking points.

I think they need to pass a rule that when a property owner turns 65 or their youngest child has been out of public schools for 20 years said property owners should be exempt from school property taxes...........also that grades 2 thru 12 should be required to ride a bus to and from home to school. As an example, Comal ISD has a multitude of 60 passenger buses and it is rare to see more than 4 to 5 kids on any of them. It seems parents don't feel liittle Johnny or Jill should have to ride one and take them to school and pick them up which causes nightmare morning and afternoon traffic situations for the general public..........let your kids start learning independence at a young age......rant over

Rattler12 said:

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I think they need to pass a rule that when a property owner turns 65 or their youngest child has been out of public schools for 20 years said property owners should be exempt from school property taxes...........also that grades 2 thru 12 should be required to ride a bus to and from home to school. As an example, Comal ISD has a multitude of 60 passenger buses and it is rare to see more than 4 to 5 kids on any of them. It seems parents don't feel liittle Johnny or Jill should have to ride one and take them to school and pick them up which causes nightmare morning and afternoon traffic situations for the general public..........let your kids start learning independence at a young age......rant over

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So you want 8 year olds to hang out at home alone from 3pm to 530pm or later? I think you should be required to ride the bus to and from work so the roads are less crowded.

What about people that never had children or their kids never dipped a toe in public school?

flown-the-coop said:

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CampSkunk said:

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Not everybody who owns a house or owns a business is "wealthy". It is a policy that would need to be evaluated in detail, and it may not work, but it would be foolish to just dismiss the idea. Also, wouldn't landlords also pay reduced property taxes, and wouldn't that reduction eventually turn into reduced rental rates?

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Average homebuyer makes 6 figures in Texas. It may not seem like a lot to you, but its definitely above LMI levels.

Landlords for those same LMI folks are usually collecting the rents from the government and/or have tax breaks for renting to LMI.

Tell you what, run a campaign on platform of 12.5% sales tax with an offset to property taxes for homeowners.

You can study it all you want, but the immediate optics of the actual impacts would make most anyone other than wealthy homeowners vomit.

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Tell you what, if you want to be persuasive, return to the coop and drop the impertinence. I'm not lobbying for one side or the other. Average income is an average. The median would be a better indication, or better yet, the number of homeowners at the 25% quartile. My only statement is that it deserves study, and we may find that the overall burden is lowered for those with lower income, especially if food is excluded. Or we may find the opposite.

Rattler12 said:

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I think they need to pass a rule that when a property owner turns 65 or their youngest child has been out of public schools for 20 years said property owners should be exempt from school property taxes...........also that grades 2 thru 12 should be required to ride a bus to and from home to school. As an example, Comal ISD has a multitude of 60 passenger buses and it is rare to see more than 4 to 5 kids on any of them. It seems parents don't feel liittle Johnny or Jill should have to ride one and take them to school and pick them up which causes nightmare morning and afternoon traffic situations for the general public..........let your kids start learning independence at a young age......rant over

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If you really love your kid, you sit in the car pickup line an hour before school is out so that your child doesn't have to ride the bus, walk, or carpool home.

RogerFurlong said:

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Rattler12 said:

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I think they need to pass a rule that when a property owner turns 65 or their youngest child has been out of public schools for 20 years said property owners should be exempt from school property taxes...........also that grades 2 thru 12 should be required to ride a bus to and from home to school. As an example, Comal ISD has a multitude of 60 passenger buses and it is rare to see more than 4 to 5 kids on any of them. It seems parents don't feel liittle Johnny or Jill should have to ride one and take them to school and pick them up which causes nightmare morning and afternoon traffic situations for the general public..........let your kids start learning independence at a young age......rant over

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So you want 8 year olds to hang out at home alone from 3pm to 530pm or later? I think you should be required to ride the bus to and from work so the roads are less crowded.

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That would be great.......except I'm retired 15 years and 75 years old..........you're not too good at math huh ,,........and must not trust your 8 year old to stay out of trouble?

Tom Fox said:

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What about people that never had children or their kids never dipped a toe in public school?

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They shoulda had kids ........and sent them to public schools ...........or pay a penalty tax for being "uppity"

How would I know how old you are? And I don't have an 8 year old. But I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to stay at home alone. But I'm glad you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes because you're old.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Rattler12 said:

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I think they need to pass a rule that when a property owner turns 65 or their youngest child has been out of public schools for 20 years said property owners should be exempt from school property taxes...........also that grades 2 thru 12 should be required to ride a bus to and from home to school. As an example, Comal ISD has a multitude of 60 passenger buses and it is rare to see more than 4 to 5 kids on any of them. It seems parents don't feel liittle Johnny or Jill should have to ride one and take them to school and pick them up which causes nightmare morning and afternoon traffic situations for the general public..........let your kids start learning independence at a young age......rant over

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If you really love your kid, you sit in the car pickup line an hour before school is out so that your child doesn't have to ride the bus, walk, or carpool home.

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or have to walk a quarter mile ( Heavan forbid) to their parents car if their parents didn't love them and got to the school late and weren't right up front......

Rattler12 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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What about people that never had children or their kids never dipped a toe in public school?

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They shoulda had kids ........and sent them to public schools ...........or pay a penalty tax for being "uppity"

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Yeah I'm fine with you geriatrics paying.

RogerFurlong said:

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How would I know how old you are? And I don't have an 8 year old. But I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to stay at home alone. But I'm glad you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes because you're old.

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If one was posting about wanting an "exception" for being over 65 and/or not having a kid in public school anymore for 20 years the poster would probably be .....

1. Over 65
2. Had not have had kids in PS in over 20 years

Also if a parent has time to sit in line for a couple of hours waiting to pick up little Johnny why wouldn't said parent have the time to be home when little Johnny gets off the bus? They could be using that "wait" time in line to be cooking the kids a nourishing supper instead of stopping at "McDonalds" for the kids because they are pressed for time and don't have time to cook said supper ........same could be said for some of the WFH dad's......oh wait they have a 4:00 T time........

Tom Fox said:

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Rattler12 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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What about people that never had children or their kids never dipped a toe in public school?

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They shoulda had kids ........and sent them to public schools ...........or pay a penalty tax for being "uppity"

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Yeah I'm fine with you geriatrics paying.

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You're going to be one one day, good Lord willing.......you'll change your tune

Rattler12 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Rattler12 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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What about people that never had children or their kids never dipped a toe in public school?

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They shoulda had kids ........and sent them to public schools ...........or pay a penalty tax for being "uppity"

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Yeah I'm fine with you geriatrics paying.

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You're going to be one one day, good Lord willing.......you'll change your tune

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I am in the group that if we are going to have taxation everyone should pay the same rate and be fully exposed to the consequences of those tax policies so that they vote accordingly.

We shouldn't be carving out special groups for exception.

I doubt I'll change my mind.

The comment early on in this thread still rings true regarding the spending issue. If the State of Texas changes the way property taxes are assessed/collected, the variety of local government entities who currently rely upon property taxes will need other ways to fund themselves.

We could make property taxes super low in Texas, but then these government entities would need (or at least argue they would need) ways to fund their operations from the State level.

I have never lived in a state with an income tax. Do the posted tax rates include exemptions? Or if the tax rate is 6% and you make $100,000 you pay exactly 6,000?

Rattler12 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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How would I know how old you are? And I don't have an 8 year old. But I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to stay at home alone. But I'm glad you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes because you're old.

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If one was posting about wanting an "exception" for being over 65 and/or not having a kid in public school anymore for 20 years the poster would probably be .....

1. Over 65
2. Had not have had kids in PS in over 20 years

Also if a parent has time to sit in line for a couple of hours waiting to pick up little Johnny why wouldn't said parent have the time to be home when little Johnny gets off the bus? They could be using that "wait" time in line to be cooking the kids a nourishing supper instead of stopping at "McDonalds" for the kids because they are pressed for time and don't have time to cook said supper ........same could be said for some of the WFH dad's......oh wait they have a 4:00 T time........

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Same generation that got is 36 trillion dollars in debt. Now that you already spent all the future generations money you don't want to pay anymore. Maybe go get a job if you can't afford it. So much entitlement in your generation.

lobopride said:

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I have never lived in a state with an income tax. Do the posted tax rates include exemptions? Or if the tax rate is 6% and you make $100,000 you pay exactly 6,000?

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Most are progressive like the federal system. A few are flat tax like you have here.

RogerFurlong said:

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Rattler12 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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How would I know how old you are? And I don't have an 8 year old. But I wouldn't trust an 8 year old to stay at home alone. But I'm glad you feel you shouldn't have to pay taxes because you're old.

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If one was posting about wanting an "exception" for being over 65 and/or not having a kid in public school anymore for 20 years the poster would probably be .....

1. Over 65
2. Had not have had kids in PS in over 20 years

Also if a parent has time to sit in line for a couple of hours waiting to pick up little Johnny why wouldn't said parent have the time to be home when little Johnny gets off the bus? They could be using that "wait" time in line to be cooking the kids a nourishing supper instead of stopping at "McDonalds" for the kids because they are pressed for time and don't have time to cook said supper ........same could be said for some of the WFH dad's......oh wait they have a 4:00 T time........

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Same generation that got is 36 trillion dollars in debt. Now that you already spent all the future generations money you don't want to pay anymore. Maybe go get a job if you can't afford it. So much entitlement in your generation.

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You can live in less house if you don't like taxes

itsyourboypookie said:

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You can live in less house if you don't like taxes

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Quit bringing common sense into this. Don't mention moving out of Texas. That's a real trigger for complainers.