A local defense attorney is working with the state to find a DP qualified attorney to appoint. I have no idea how public defender system works in Utah - they may not have public defenders for these cases. They probably have a list of private attorneys who have signed up to be on an appointment list. The state coordinator (whatever their title is) will more than likely just appoint whoever's turn it is to take a case.

A private attorney's fees could easily be in the high six figure range or higher for a capital murder case. I doubt his family is going to sell their house and cash out their retirements for a case that is all but certain to end in a conviction.

AtticusMatlock said:

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The local PD is working with the state to find a DP qualified attorney to appoint. The state will have a list of qualified attorneys and more than likely they will just appoint whoever's turn it is to take a case.

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So he's on his own...

I'm still betting that his attorney will at least ask to see of a deal is on the table for life without parole...

If I'm his attorney, just seeing the evidence the state has declared so far...I gotta feel like this case is going to be a loser, and the only thing left to figure out is whether or not my client's life can even be salvaged...

Attorneys who sign up to be on these DP-qualified lists are usually true believers and will try very hard to save his life. Like we saw with Kohberger I could see them fight and claw to get the DP off the table. That will be their primary objective. An acquittal is not realistic.

Utah Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 8, in part reads:

Quote:

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(a) Right to counsel. A defendant charged with a public offense has the right to self-representation the penalty for which includes the possibility of incarceration, regardless of whether actually imposed, has the right to counsel, and if indigent, has the right to court-appointed counsel if the defendant faces any possibility of the deprivation of liberty.
(b) Capital case qualifications. In all cases in which counsel is appointed to represent an indigent defendant who is charged with an offense for which the punishment may be death, the court will appoint two or more attorneys to represent the defendant and will make a finding on the record that appointed counsel is competent in the trial of capital case. To be found competent to represent a defendant charged in a capital case, the combined experience of the appointed attorneys must meet the following requirements:

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(1) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have tried to verdict at least six felony cases as defense counsel within the past four years or 25 felony cases total, with at least six of the 25 cases as defense counsel;
(2) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have appeared as defense counsel or defense co-counsel in a capital or a felony homicide case which was tried to a jury and which went to final verdict;
(3) within the last five years, at least one of the appointed attorneys must have completed or taught, in person, at least eight hours of approved continuing legal education which dealt, in substantial part, with the representation of defendants in death penalty cases; and
(4) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have at least five years of experience in the active practice of law.

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(c) Capital case appointment considerations. In making its selection of attorneys for appointment in a capital case, the court will also consider at least the following factors:

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(1) whether one or more of the attorneys under consideration have previously appeared as defense counsel or defense co-counsel in a capital case;
(2) the extent to which the attorneys under consideration have sufficient time and support and can dedicate those resources to the representation of the defendant in the capital case now pending before the court with undivided loyalty to the defendant;
(3) the extent to which the attorneys under consideration have engaged in the active practice of criminal law in the past five years;
(4) the diligence, competency, the total workload, and ability of the attorneys being considered; and
(5) any other factor which may be relevant to a determination that counsel to be appointed will fairly, efficiently and effectively provide representation to the defendant.

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(d) Capital case appeals. In all cases where an indigent defendant is sentenced to death, the court will appoint one or more attorneys to represent such defendant on appeal and will make a finding that counsel is competent in the appeal of capital cases. To be found competent to represent on appeal a person sentenced to death, the combined experience of the appointed attorneys must meet the following requirements:

Quote:

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(1) at least one attorney must have served as counsel in at least three felony appeals; and
(2) within the last five years, at least one attorney must have attended and completed within the past five years an approved continuing legal education course which dealt, in substantial part, with the trial or appeal of death penalty cases.

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(e) Post-conviction cases. In all cases in which counsel is appointed to represent an indigent petitioner pursuant to Utah Code section 78B-9-202(2)(a), the court will appoint one or more attorneys to represent such petitioner at post-conviction trial and on post-conviction appeal and will make a finding that counsel is qualified to represent persons sentenced to death in post-conviction cases. To be found qualified, the combined experience of the appointed attorneys must meet the following requirements:

Quote:

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(1) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have served as counsel in at least three felony or post-conviction appeals;
(2) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have appeared as counsel or co-counsel in a post-conviction case at the evidentiary hearing, on appeal, or otherwise demonstrated proficiency in the area of post-conviction litigation;
(3) within the last five years at least one of the appointed attorneys must have attended and completed or taught within the past five years an approved continuing legal education course which dealt, in substantial part, with the trial and appeal of death penalty cases or with the prosecution or defense of post-conviction proceedings in death penalty cases;
(4) at least one of the appointed attorneys must have tried to judgment or verdict three civil jury or felony cases within the past four years or ten cases total; and
(5) the experience of at least one of the appointed attorneys must total not less than five years in the active practice of law.

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LINK

5 words for you.

Liberalism is a mental disorder

AtticusMatlock said:

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There's a lot of threads on the situation - trying to keep this one focused on only the legal case / issues and not about other things.

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Things like this could affect the legal case regarding a jury.

I appreciate the guy giving the press conference stating his desire to prosecute by the book and not using emotion or opinions to impartially sway the trial.

They gotta do it by the book. Make it a fair and impartial trial so that there is no reason for an appeal or mistrial.

Edit:

Moved to speculation thread to keep this one on the trial.

that whole correspondence seems scripted, but i dunno how freaks talk to each other

TAMUallen said:

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aTmAg said:

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The governor said in interview that some more information would be coming out today. What is this new information?

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More information after the press conference?

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Not sure what press conference you are speaking of, but over the weekend (I believe) he has been clarifying some MSM disinformation and said that more info will come out on Tuesday in the court filing.

Rex Racer said:

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If I was his jailer, I would have nothing but hundreds of hours of Charlie Kirk YouTube videos playing 24/7 loudly just outside of his cell.

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Fantastic idea Rex!

Paul Morrow, former NYPD detective, lawyer on The Five today provided an accurate description of Robinson…

"An excremental byproduct of the progressive ecosystem that has been funded by some of the worst enemies of the American Experiment."

Kennedy on reply… "in some countries they call that a dingleberry."

Now that the maga angle fell to pieces when it came out that he's a chronically online gay loser who's into ******s and furries, they're going to try and make him the next Luigi.

Okay. Once the assassin gets his PD DP certified counsel appointed, they will move for a preliminary examination. (My guess.) Because this is not an indictment, it is by information. Basically that is a probable cause for arrest hearing.

Assassin was not represented by counsel at first appearance, hence no plea entered. Now, with the appointment of DP certified team, they will be looking to delay so they can get as much info as they can before entering a plea. And then go from there. Plus a continuance of that full arraignment with plea of guilty or not guilty, can be delayed if the defense requests it.

Look, we may not like this but the judge will allow any defense team get a continuance under these circumstances. Have to get this one correct.

But I might be getting some Darryl Brooks vibes here. This guy may actually fire his PD and choose to go pro se because he thinks he's that smart?

BadMoonRisin said:

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Now that the maga angle fell to pieces when it came out that he's a chronically online loser *** who's into ******s and furries, they're going to try and make him the next Luigi.

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Evidently Kimmel said that MAGA spent all weekend trying to deny Tyler Robinson was "one of theirs".

He also referred to it as a murder not assassination, just like Crocketts pastor.

Dems have their verbiage and talking points continuing to come out.

I give it 12 hours before you will see a mashup of all the libs sharing the same explanation, talking points etc.

The "both sides need to tone it down" must have initially polled well u til Gutfeld and others slapped it down.

New polling is to call it just another murder by a kid from a MAGA gun loving family who shunned their gay chaser son.

Hell, I could probably write their talking points for them they are so ****ing predictable.

I hope he does. It will all but guarantee he gets the ultimate punishment for his hubris.

I don't get Brooks vibes. He sat there very quietly during the formal reading of charges today. Did not make any non-verbal expressions or anything suggesting he's that type.

AtticusMatlock said:

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I don't get Brooks vibes. He sat there very quietly during the formal reading of charges today. Did not make any non-verbal expressions or anything suggesting he's that type.

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But we know he is smart but nuts. Fine lines between genius and madness. Not sure where this is going.

That would be the right move by the judge imo. Do everything by the book and leave no room for appeal.

Maybe an unpopular opinion…

I don't know why we have to create a sub topic on "prosecution", "man hunt", "conspiracy", "who is the killer", etc

And then the first response is "ya, let's keep it to just XYZ"

It's really dumb. Why can't we just have one thread that discusses everything? It's more annoying to have to click back and forth on the various topics than it is to just scroll past something you may not care about.

It's not like each of yall aren't reading all those other topics on the same subject matter.

fc2112 said:

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For everyone's benefit, the murder laws in Utah: Let' try to use the correct terminology

Quote:

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Under Utah law, aggravated murder is the only crime subject to the penalty of death. It is defined as follows:

• The murder was committed by a person who is confined in a jail or other correctional institution;
• The murder was committed incident to one act, scheme, course of conduct, or criminal episode during which two or more persons were killed, or during which the murderer attempted to kill one or more persons in addition to the victim who was killed;
• The murderer knowingly created a great risk of death to a person other than the victim and the murderer;
• The murder was committed incident to an act, scheme, course of conduct, or criminal episode during which the murderer committed or attempted to commit aggravated robbery, robbery, rape, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, forcible sodomy, sodomy upon a child, forcible sexual abuse, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, child abuse, aggravated sexual assault, aggravated arson, arson, aggravated burglary, burglary, aggravated kidnapping, or kidnapping, or child kidnapping;
• The murder was committed incident to one act, scheme, course of conduct, or criminal episode during which the murderer committed the crime of abuse or desecration of a dead human body;
• The murder was committed for the purpose of avoiding or preventing an arrest of the defendant or another by a peace officer acting under color of legal authority or for the purpose of effecting the defendant's or another's escape from lawful custody;
• The murder was committed for pecuniary gain;
• The murderer committed, or engaged or employed another person to commit the homicide pursuant to an agreement or contract for remuneration or the promise of remuneration for commission of the homicide;
• The murderer previously committed or was convicted of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, murder, attempted murder, or an offense committed in another jurisdiction which if committed in this state would be one of these;
• The murderer was previously convicted of a specified felony such as child rape;
• The murder was committed for the purpose of: preventing a witness from testifying; retaliating against a person for testifying, providing evidence, or participating in any legal proceedings or official investigation; or disrupting or hindering any lawful governmental function or enforcement of laws;
• The victim is or has been a local, state, or federal public official, or a candidate for public office, and the homicide is based on, is caused by, or is related to that official position, act, capacity, or candidacy;
• The victim is or has been a peace officer, law enforcement officer, executive officer, prosecuting officer, jailer, prison official, firefighter, judge or other court official, juror, probation officer, or parole officer, and the victim is either on duty or the homicide is based on, is caused by, or is related to that official position, and the murderer knew, or reasonably should have known, that the victim holds or has held that official position;
• The homicide was committed: by means of a destructive device, bomb, explosive, incendiary device, or similar device which was planted, hidden, or concealed in any place, area, dwelling, building, or structure, or was mailed or delivered; by means of any weapon of mass destruction; or to target a law enforcement officer;
• The murder was committed during the act of unlawfully assuming control of any aircraft, train, or other public conveyance by use of threats or force with intent to obtain any valuable consideration for the release of the public conveyance or any passenger, crew member, or any other person aboard, or to direct the route or movement of the public conveyance or otherwise exert control over the public conveyance;
• The murder was committed by means of the administration of a poison or of any lethal substance or of any substance administered in a lethal amount, dosage, or quantity;
• The victim was a person held or otherwise detained as a shield, hostage, or for ransom;
• The murder was committed in an especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or exceptionally depraved manner, any of which must be demonstrated by physical torture, serious physical abuse, or serious bodily injury of the victim before death;
• The murderer dismembers, mutilates, or disfigures the victim's body, whether before or after death, in a manner demonstrating the murderer's depravity of mind; or
• The victim, at the time of the death was younger than 14 years of age and was not an unborn child.

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I'm thinking building the death penalty case is quite complex.

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Did AI spit out that definition for aggravated murder?

Use this instead:

https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title76/Chapter5/76-5-S202.html
I think the feds will charge him with terrorism related charges because at first glance, I don't see the elements of aggravated murder.

ETA: TexAgs kills preceding spaces making the formatting harder to read.

As a professional derailer, I am happy to explain in the next 6 posts why this is a great idea, then we can argue back and forth on it.

But seriously, it keeps the convoys focused (in my opinion) and does allow true derails to be better addressed.

If there is lack interest in that offshoot, then the topic will die.

Given we are probably 2 years away from trial, but then it becomes place for those who like the trial part of things.

Just my opinion.

Back to our normally scheduled programming.

I recommend one of them fancy "hyperlinks" to a reference only wall of text.

****, now I derailed.

Rex Racer said:

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If I was his jailer, I would have nothing but hundreds of hours of Charlie Kirk YouTube videos playing 24/7 loudly just outside of his cell.

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Came on here to post the exact same thing!

flown-the-coop said:

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I recommend one of them fancy "hyperlinks" to a reference only wall of text.

****, now I derailed.

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My daughter was beaten to death and so I've read a lot of murder statutes over the years. Utah's capital murder is the most complicated I've read to date.

Here is the aggravated murder aspect:

Quote:

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(iii) the actor knowingly created a great risk of death to another individual other than the deceased individual and the actor;

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What specific terrorism statute are you thinking the Feds will charge him under?

And I most certainly sympathize for you. Though I used snark, I think the comment remains valid.

If you are more familiar with the complexity, then I would respectfully request you share your experience more concerns.

To add: lots of times lengthy posts get deleted and relevant information lost, particularly when you reply to another lengthy post. My intention was for advice, but I apologize it was taken as overt criticism.

aggiehawg said:

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Okay. Once the assassin gets his PD DP certified counsel appointed, they will move for a preliminary examination. (My guess.) Because this is not an indictment, it is by information. Basically that is a probable cause for arrest hearing.

Assassin was not represented by counsel at first appearance, hence no plea entered. Now, with the appointment of DP certified team, they will be looking to delay so they can get as much info as they can before entering a plea. And then go from there. Plus a continuance of that full arraignment with plea of guilty or not guilty, can be delayed if the defense requests it.

Look, we may not like this but the judge will allow any defense team get a continuance under these circumstances. Have to get this one correct.

But I might be getting some Darryl Brooks vibes here. This guy may actually fire his PD and choose to go pro se because he thinks he's that smart?

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Thanks. Do you know if a judge has been assigned?

lb3 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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I recommend one of them fancy "hyperlinks" to a reference only wall of text.

****, now I derailed.

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My daughter was beaten to death and so I've read a lot of murder statutes over the years. Utah's capital murder is the most complicated I've read to date.

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I'm so sorry to hear this.

So this dude sent his boyfriend very specific texts explaining pretty much every unexplained aspect of what he did? Interesting

IIRC the judge handling the initial hearing said he would also be handling the next hearing. Haven't seen anything reported anywhere about a different judge being assigned to the case as of yet.