CDUB98 said:

---

Quote:

---

They had to take who they could get, and the care was sub-par.

---

And this is all any of us would get under single payer.

---

Yep, which is the goal.

And then we'll be like Canada, who makes fun of our 'costly' healthcare, but comes here for help before they die in line.

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

but.... the damage is already done. A large portion of the populace is dependent on it.... making it exceptionally difficult to claw it back and disband it.

---

Yeah but McCain didn't like Trump so TAKE THAT AMERICA!!!

CDUB98 said:

---

Cloward-Piven Strategy


The ACA was designed to fail.

---

and usher in universal healthcare.

so now, instead of just a small part of the population not getting good care, everyone except the rich gets crappy care and long waits. See Canada and England.

Did any of the previous Yes votes do as much good as that NO vote did harm?

Its a question to ponder if it sent legacy down.

I recall listening to NPR back when this was passed and they were interviewing their day-to-day listeners over it and even their constituents were saying how bad it sucks. People lost their doctors, costs going up, etc.

NPR was flabbergasted by the responses.

Thanks McCain

AgGrad99 said:

---

CDUB98 said:

---

Quote:

---

They had to take who they could get, and the care was sub-par.

---

And this is all any of us would get under single payer.

---

Yep, which is the goal.

And then we'll be like Canada, who makes fun of our 'costly' healthcare, but comes here for help before they die in line.

---

"Designed to fail"

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

Ag98and03 said:

---

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universally ****ty coverage?

---

FIFY

Thanks Chief Justice
JOHN ROBERTS.

Faithful Ag said:

---

Thanks Chief Justice
JOHN ROBERTS.

---

I'm sure it was a very taxing decision for him.

I'm not sure what you mean by paying an upcharge on everything? All I know is before Obamacare my insurance premiums amounted to about 7% of my income. They now amount to about 20% of my income with far less insurance benefits. My income has grown faster than inflation. Why is that? You think universal healthcare will fix that? Really?

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'll also say this. I run a small business, and have been intimately involved in selecting our health plans over the years (mainly because it's one of our biggest costs).

Before Obamacrap, you had options....lots and lots of options. If we didnt need certain coverages (eg Maternity), we could choose a plan that cost less, and excluded that coverage. We would tailor our plan to our needs, and nto pay for more than we'd use.

But now, it's 5x the cost and we are required to pay for what we dont need.

It's one of the dumbest things our government has forced upon us in our country's lifetime.

---

Keep your eyes open going forward. I also run a small business and the last couple of years we are being nudged into self-funded plans, where we are responsible for our employees medical costs and the provider is just a manager/administrator. The nudging is getting stronger. One rare disease diagnosis could bankrupt us. Thank God my partner and I are both on Medicare and 2026 will probably be my last year.

AgGrad99 said:

---

I'll also say this. I run a small business, and have been intimately involved in selecting our health plans over the years (mainly because it's one of our biggest costs).

Before Obamacrap, you had options....lots and lots of options. If we didnt need certain coverages (eg Maternity), we could choose a plan that cost less, and excluded that coverage. We would tailor our plan to our needs, and nto pay for more than we'd use.

But now, it's 5x the cost and we are required to pay for what we dont need.

It's one of the dumbest things our government has forced upon us in our country's lifetime.

---

Now that bold is something would like to see Trump force be changed. Get it into some system where you only choose the coverage you need. And get a catastrophic option so many mention on the table too.

Ag98and03 said:

---

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

lololololol. Health insurance profit margins are like 3% on average!

Did you know that with Obamacare, the HC companies are required to spend 80% of every dollar on patient care?!

Blaming insurance companies is dumb.

YouBet said:

---

Have already shared this. I'm 51 and my wife is 49.

To get an ACA Bronze plan which is the "cheapest" plan, we are looking at $1,300 to $1,500 per month in premiums and a $12-15K annual deductible.

---

Better off putting $1500+ into an HSA...

OH WAIT! You can't have an HSA account without insurance!

That's a fact. I actually got a $500 rebate from my health insurance provider this year to meet the 80% rule. I couldn't believe it.

BTKAG97 said:

---

In addition, the US military subsidizes many country's defense in order for them to waste funds on a junk product.

---

That is not mentioned near enough.

We've been providing security for the world for decades and they used the money saved to expand their social services!

Logos Stick said:

---

BTKAG97 said:

---

In addition, the US military subsidizes many country's defense in order for them to waste funds on a junk product.

---

That is not mentioned near enough.

We've been providing security for the world for decades and they used the money saved to expand their social services!

---

And, of note, the wealthy European countries are all up against a financial wall right now because their cradle to grave welfare is no longer sustainable. Couple that with them being forced to spend more on defense now that the US is reallocating defense resources and they are in a world of hurt.

See France who has now cycled through 5 PMs in one year all of whom say they need to cut spending because what they are doing is unsustainable and each one gets canned or quits when the rest of government loses their minds over any spending cuts whatsoever.

And the NHS is notoriously bad as reported by their own people.

Cru said:

---

[Do not bypass obscenity filters -- Staff]

Sorry staff! /cheer

No poop Sherlock. All of us in healthcare when it launched knew it would be unsustainable.

---

Anyone with an IQ above their shoe size knew it. Govt interference is ALWAYS bad. Always!

Quote:

---

No poop Sherlock. All of us in healthcare when it launched knew it would be unsustainable.

---

If there is no dancing doctor and nurse video about it, then it didn't happen.

Ag98and03 said:

---

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

Yes, I do.

Govt interfering in the market since WW2.

As usual, govt could burn water.

Liberalism, like DebacleCare, is bad and Obama should feel bad. But he doesn't, since he's a F-ing moron.

Ag98and03 said:

---

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

A. It's often not 'Universal'
B. It's terrible coverage and lengthy lengthy lead times

Also consider this...Our system creates innovation. Whether medical devices, treatments or pharmaceutical innovation. The world benefits from that happening in the USA.

They also benefit from our spending. military, AID, etc. Love him or Hate him...when Trump talks about the world taking advantage of the United States for decades, this is a Prime example.

BigRobSA said:

---

Cru said:

---

[Do not bypass obscenity filters -- Staff]

Sorry staff! /cheer

No poop Sherlock. All of us in healthcare when it launched knew it would be unsustainable.

---

Anyone with an IQ above their shoe size knew it. Govt interference is ALWAYS bad. Always!

---

Now to see how the government fixes what the government broke.

Are you holding your breath?

YouBet said:

---

Have already shared this. I'm 51 and my wife is 49.

To get an ACA Bronze plan which is the "cheapest" plan, we are looking at $1,300 to $1,500 per month in premiums and a $12-15K annual deductible.

---

Congrats, that's about half what our BCBS PPO, Hdhp costs per month! 58, 54

Ag98and03 said:

---

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

Please tell us which current government agency you would prefer our healthcare system to be run like?

I don't see how this is possible. It's got Affordable right there in the name.

Renewing our company right now, it seems we bounce year to year from united health to blue c blue shield. 20% increase this year, its crazy.

If you don't like what you pay go get another job.

Study Saul Alinsky if you want to better understand Barack Obama. In his 8 steps to communism, note what Alinsky listed as Number one...

8 Steps to Communism

Obamacare wasn't about health insurance...it was all about control.

And if anybody questions Alinsky's influence on Obama....

The man who inspired Obama

I think the major issue is the people forced to the exchange like self-employed are the only people truly seeing the damage Obamacare has caused. Those on employer plans or true group plans have not seen what's behind the curtain and then you have the individuals, the majority on Obamacare, that receive large subsidies on Obamacare that of course love it. If we as a country decide to go universal healthcare the individuals on employer plans will be crying the most.

Superfreak said:

---

I think the major issue is the people forced to the exchange like self-employed are the only people truly seeing the damage Obamacare has caused. Those on employer plans or true group plans have not seen what's behind the curtain and then you have the individuals, the majority on Obamacare, that receive large subsidies on Obamacare that of course love it. If we as a country decide to go universal healthcare the individuals on employer plans will be crying the most.

---

This is a great point and I'm a perfect example of this. I've been on employer insurance for my entire career until the last month. This was the one thing leaving all of that behind that stressed me out because I knew going into this it would not be nearly as easy, cost effective, or the same quality as what I had through my employer.

Most people on corporate plans do not realize they live on easy street when it comes to health insurance.