So what?

Nothing the US does is ever affordable. We do things first and then worry about the costs.

Typical drunken sailor approach.

You could have and did fool Biden.....and everyone does that.

Superfreak said:

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I think the major issue is the people forced to the exchange like self-employed are the only people truly seeing the damage Obamacare has caused. Those on employer plans or true group plans have not seen what's behind the curtain and then you have the individuals, the majority on Obamacare, that receive large subsidies on Obamacare that of course love it. If we as a country decide to go universal healthcare the individuals on employer plans will be crying the most.

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This depends on how long you have been in the workforce. If you have worked at a job with health benefits for 10 years or more, you have most likely felt it.

Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

87IE said:

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Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

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Better question. How many of those can fight man, equip and fight a war without massive assistance? Look to that ratio for the main answer.

MemphisAg1 said:

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TheHulkster said:

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Yep, $1500 per month on the BCBS HMO (there was not a single PPO plan on the exchange last year) with a 15,000 family deductible and an 18,000 max out of pocket. No premium credits. Biggest bill of my household, larger than my mortgage.

Unironically, thanks a lot Obama. /s

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Here's how screwed up that is... I'm still working at 61 and have the BCBS PPO plan which is much better than the HMO plan. $337 per month for the wife and I with a $1,500 family deductible.

If I paid for my employer's contribution -- which early retirees can do before Medicare eligibility -- the total monthly premium would be $1686 for both of us. Expensive, but it's still great insurance with a low deductible.

And my out of pocket max is $7,500 per family.

Government screws everything up.

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As part of my pre-retirement fantasy planning, I priced the BCBS PPO Platinum plan just for me - husband is already on Medicare. The premium alone would be $2000 per month from the exchange. Unfortunately I work for a very small employer, so there is no employee/retiree health coverage - even if I pay the full cost myself.

Looks like I'll be working a little longer than I would like!

Maybe some of the cost increases but not nearly to the degree of someone self funding the entire premium. They have also not likely had to search for new plans every year or two because the exchange drops their current plan as an option. They also likely haven't had to find a plan that all their family members pcp, their specialist and nearest hospital accept which for the most part doesn't happen. Therefore those on OC have to compromise and someone in the family has to change at least one of their doctors every few years. I'm not trying to be combative but I'm curious if you have had to use Obamacare?

Ag98and03 said:

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Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Good
Fast
Cheap

You can only choose 2. I don't know about you but I choose good and fast.

87IE said:

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Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

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For the same reason the Saudi and other Middle East Uber wealthy do. They want the best medical care.

Logos Stick said:

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Obama refused to implement major parts of the law from the get-go and it's still a disaster, e.g. he refused to penalize individuals who refused to buy HS insurance.

Dems said it would bend the cost curve down. It did not such thing! They said it would end ER use for primary care. ER usage has gone through the roof!

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Hmmmm..."bending...curve down"...is that like flattening a curve?

Heard that somewhere before.

Remember, insurance back in the 80's and early 90's did not typically cover doctor visits...that was insurance. The advent of HMO's introduced "Healthcare" to the paradigm. Along with that they introduced "co-pays".

Insurance is for Health Risk...catastrophic type stuff. What risk is there in visiting a doctor? It is also why the cost of a visit went through the roof.

Tom Fox said:

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Ag98and03 said:

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Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

Good
Fast
Cheap

You can only choose 2. I don't know about you but I choose good and fast.

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I like how you put it. Makes sense.

My choices are the same.

I have never had trouble finding a good doctor (I very very rarely need one, thank God).

My relatives in Canada have to wait days and weeks for an appointment for simple stuff.

CowboyGirl said:

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As part of my pre-retirement fantasy planning, I priced the BCBS PPO Platinum plan just for me - husband is already on Medicare. The premium alone would be $2000 per month from the exchange. Unfortunately I work for a very small employer, so there is no employee/retiree health coverage - even if I pay the full cost myself.

Looks like I'll be working a little longer than I would like!

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That's awful! Sorry to hear.

Obama really screwed it up for a lot of people. You should be able to buy a catastrophic plan on the open market that protects you from an unexpected big issue and keeps your premiums low.

So many of these Obamacare plans have huge premiums, huge deductibles, and huge out of pockets. That's of course if you work hard to make an income above their cutoff. Below that, the government (you and I) pay for those who don't work for it.

First, im not arguing Canada or any other country has better healthcare than the US but getting an appointment in this country for simple stuff ain't so simple either. My wife had all the symptoms of strep throat a few months ago. The soonest appointment to see her doctor was several weeks out which required her to go to urgent care. No big deal except the urgent care she had gone to a few times over the previous few years decided they no longer accepted her Obamacare policy. In the middle of the year mind you because she had been earlier in the year for some other minor stuff. That's the FUBAR our insurance industry is in.

Mas89 said:

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87IE said:

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Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

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For the same reason the Saudi and other Middle East Uber wealthy do. They want the best medical care.

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Yet she seemed to be touting universal coverage .

Somehow I don't think I'll get an answer from her...

That's the problem, in Texas to qualify for a catastrophic plan you must be under 30 or have an exemption like domestic violence, homelessness and some others. Obama killed these plans for most.

Edit. Wow I just saw they extended the catastrophic plans to those that don't qualify for tax credits.

Superfreak said:

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First, im not arguing Canada or any other country has better healthcare than the US but getting an appointment in this country for simple stuff ain't so simple either. My wife had all the symptoms of strep throat a few months ago. The soonest appointment to see her doctor was several weeks out which required her to go to urgent care. No big deal except the urgent care she had gone to a few times over the previous few years decided they no longer accepted her Obamacare policy. In the middle of the year mind you because she had been earlier in the year for some other minor stuff. That's the FUBAR our insurance industry is in.

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Your issue is you have Obamacare. It's trash insurance at a stupidly high cost, all courtesy of Barack Obama and his fellow Democrats. That's the hard truth.

If you have insurance through an employer, it is more broadly accepted by healthcare providers and you have more options to a wide array of providers instead of the narrow Obamacare network.

The net result is you pay less to see better doctors quicker with private insurance, and pay more to wait forever to see crappy doctors with Obamacare.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Superfreak said:

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Edit. Wow I just saw they extended the catastrophic plans to those that don't qualify for tax credits.

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Where did you see this?

I personally think that is a regional issue.

I live in po-dunk USA, about 20 minutes from Knoxville. If I had strep and wanted to see my PA, I could get an appointment to see her within 24 hours.

Now if I had a migraine and wanted to see a neurologist…that's another story.

87IE said:

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Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

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Because the term "universal" does not mean everyone gets the kind of access to healthcare they require at the time they need it.

If the American left wishes the Federal Government to run American healthcare, then perhaps they should prove the healthcare the Feds currently administer (the IHS and VA) is equal in speed and quality to that on offer in the private sector.

Given the examples within our country, it is little wonder the Democrats never use government-run healthcare operations within this country to advance the argument we should have a state-run system.

I grew up in socialized healthcare.

It's an evil taint on humanity akin to slavery and genocide.

BBRex said:

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Superfreak said:

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I think the major issue is the people forced to the exchange like self-employed are the only people truly seeing the damage Obamacare has caused. Those on employer plans or true group plans have not seen what's behind the curtain and then you have the individuals, the majority on Obamacare, that receive large subsidies on Obamacare that of course love it. If we as a country decide to go universal healthcare the individuals on employer plans will be crying the most.

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This depends on how long you have been in the workforce. If you have worked at a job with health benefits for 10 years or more, you have most likely felt it.

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Everyone felt it/is feeling it. It was a horrible solution to a problem CAUSED by government.

Henriques said:

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87IE said:

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Quote:

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Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

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Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

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Because the term "universal" does not mean everyone gets the kind of access to healthcare they require at the time they need it.

If the American left wishes the Federal Government to run American healthcare, then perhaps they should prove the healthcare the Feds currently administer (the IHS and VA) is equal in speed and quality to that on offer in the private sector.

Given the examples within our country, it is little wonder the Democrats never use government-run healthcare operations within this country to advance the argument we should have a state-run system.

---

It should also be mandated that Democratic members have to use it, not anything else, so they have stake in it. Since no Republicans voted for it to ram it down on the country (even overriding hard blue Massachusetts trying to stop it), they don't have to.

https://www.hhs.gov/press-room/hhs-expands-access-affordable-catastrophic-health-coverage.html

Superfreak said:

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https://www.hhs.gov/press-room/hhs-expands-access-affordable-catastrophic-health-coverage.html

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A quick read of that makes clear that exemptions are still based on need. Poor, and for whatever reason, don't quality for tax credits or direct subsidies.

If you're middle class and above the income cutoff, you're still out of luck and have to buy the big, ugly, hairy dog of Obamacare if you're not covered by employer or group insurance.

Just like they designed... fleece the makers to give to the takers.

Generally, consumers who are newly ineligible for APTC or CSRs due to their projected annual income (below 100 percent or above 400 percent of the federal poverty level (FPL)) will be eligible for a hardship exemption and can enroll

Are you sure. A real question because I interpret it differently.

The objective was always to get people hooked on gov't assistance. From that regard, it's been a screaming success.

Superfreak said:

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Generally, consumers who are newly ineligible for APTC or CSRs due to their projected annual income (below 100 percent or above 400 percent of the federal poverty level (FPL)) will be eligible for a hardship exemption and can enroll

Are you sure. A real question because I interpret it differently.

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If they allowed middle to high income people who aren't covered by employer/group insurance to avoid the costly premiums for Obamacare, then there wouldn't be the money to pay the subsidies for the poor. That's how they designed it. They are making you -- and people like you -- pay for those subsidies through your ridiculously high premiums and deductibles.

titan said:

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Henriques said:

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87IE said:

---

Quote:

---

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

Why do Canadians come to the US for healthcare?

---

Because the term "universal" does not mean everyone gets the kind of access to healthcare they require at the time they need it.

If the American left wishes the Federal Government to run American healthcare, then perhaps they should prove the healthcare the Feds currently administer (the IHS and VA) is equal in speed and quality to that on offer in the private sector.

Given the examples within our country, it is little wonder the Democrats never use government-run healthcare operations within this country to advance the argument we should have a state-run system.

---

It should also be mandated that Democratic members have to use it, not anything else, so they have stake in it. Since no Republicans voted for it to ram it down on the country (even overriding hard blue Massachusetts trying to stop it), they don't have to.

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Apparently Congress critters have to go through a specified DC provider service within ACA in order to get employer subsidies for healthcare.

They shouldn't even get that. Those creating the ACA should have been forced to experience it without a generous subsidy in the exact same manner a regular citizen would engage with the program.

Tom Fox said:

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Ag98and03 said:

---

Insurance is unaffordable overall. On Obamacare, or elsewhere.

I pay 1000/mo for my family's insurance. No idea what my employer pays, but I would imagine it is a lot. Any way you dice it, that is expensive.

You do realize why it is expensive though? Insurance companies want profit. You are paying an upcharge on literally everything in order to give them that profit. Insurance companies don't insure out of the goodness of their hearts.

Why does every single wealthy country except the US have some sort of universal coverage?

---

Good
Fast
Cheap

You can only choose 2. I don't know about you but I choose good and fast.

---

Maybe the key word in that government garble is "newly". I don't know but I'll see next month when I try to find a new plan.

Superfreak said:

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Maybe the key word in that government garble is "newly". I don't know but I'll see next month when I try to find a new plan.

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I wish you luck! Good to anybody who can navigate that minefield and get decent insurance at a reasonable cost.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Superfreak said:

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https://www.hhs.gov/press-room/hhs-expands-access-affordable-catastrophic-health-coverage.html

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A quick read of that makes clear that exemptions are still based on need. Poor, and for whatever reason, don't quality for tax credits or direct subsidies.

If you're middle class and above the income cutoff, you're still out of luck and have to buy the big, ugly, hairy dog of Obamacare if you're not covered by employer or group insurance.

Just like they designed... fleece the makers to give to the takers.

---

Trump needs to break that in particular. Really don't care how. That can become a big problem if employer has to suspend covering.

The dems know they just have to get any entitlement program implemented and the sheeple will depend on it and vote for them. It's a strategy that's been working for them for 60 years.

RightWingConspirator said:

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The objective was always to get people hooked on gov't assistance. From that regard, it's been a screaming success.

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The objective was always to speed up the collapse of the private health insurance industry so that single payer would be welcomed with open arms as the only alternative. Everything in the ACA was written by single payer theorists and true believers. Democrats just wanted to pass something for the optics. They didn't care too much about understanding the bill that was ghost written for them by people who (1) believed completely in utopian universal healthcare and (2) knew that the only way to get Americans to want universal healthcare was to destroy private health insurance.