American Hardwood said:

---

I'm Catholic and I don't see a problem with this assuming the pursuits of these 'scholars' are genuine.

---

They won't be even if they say they are, these are vile liars and thieves.

Quote:

---

these are vile liars and thieves.

---

Isn't that the target market?

AGROAg88 said:

---

Hold your breath and run to look for the Christian prayer room in Mecca, or Medina. Or anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

---

We don't need a special room to talk to God

Islam: convert or die!

Pope Wokeist Marxist: welcome to the Vatican, here is your own prayer room.

FarmerJohn said:

---

Quote:

---

Allowing the practice of a false religion at your church is not "being respectful."

---

To my understanding, the whole of the Vatican isn't a church. I'm not Catholic, so I can't speak for their priorities. But if one of those priorities is to convince others of their beliefs, it's a lot easier to do that and have those conversations at your place than to have to go to their place to do so.

---

Wow….ever heard of missionaries??

Logos Stick said:

---

Islam: convert or die!

Pope Wokeist Marxist: welcome to the Vatican, here is your own prayer room.

---

The Quran states, "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256).

Pew research states that only 8% of Muslims believe violence in the name of religion is "sometimes or often justified". Of note, about one-quarter (27%) decline to offer an opinion. Still too many, but not close to a majority.

I couldn't find a study that is only about Christians; most lump Christians in with Christian Nationalists, which definitely skews the percentage.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/12/17/little-support-for-terrorism-among-muslim-americans/

/not a Muslim apologist, just trying to learn and be open-minded.

AGROAg88 said:

---

Hold your breath and run to look for the Christian prayer room in Mecca, or Medina. Or anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

---

Uh, don't do that unless you want to be beheaded by the religion of peace

Qurn 9:29 - ""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

Qur'an 4:89 - "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

Qur'an 47:4 - "[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, 'I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.'"

Logos Stick said:

---

Qurn 9:29 - ""Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

Qur'an 4:89 - "They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."

Qur'an 47:4 - "[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, 'I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip.'"

---

Thank you for the content to research. This subject becomes tricky to research because of the context of the events during the time period when the quran originated.

In refutation of the first quote, the verse goes on to state that if non-muslims pay the Jizya (muslim state tax of the time), then no violence will be used. It's not a blank check to commit indiscriminate violence.

2nd verse was written in a time of extreme war. The next verse goes on to clarify that "But if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah does not grant you permission to fight them.".

3rd was also written in a time of war, specifically the Battle of Badr. It addressed muslims about the ethics of war, not advocating violence against peaceful nonbelievers.

Essentially it'd be like taking verses like this out of context:
Numbers 31:1718:
"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
Deuteronomy 20:1617:
"But of the cities of these people...thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: But thou shalt utterly destroy them...
1 Samuel 15:3:
"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Again, thanks for debating in earnest. I've learned much today.

Jason C. said:

---

This is probably just one dumb person's decision at one place. The "Vatican" is a vast bureaucratic complex like DC, except the government it runs is ten times older. Hard to hold "the Vatican" responsible for some librarian's policy. It'd be like a librarian in DC having a trans teen book and calling it "US government wants to trans kids." Usually news stories like this are great because really stupid stuff gets killed when light is shone upon it. Hopefully that's what happens here.

---

You can say that, but at the end of the day the whole point of office of The Pope is that there is no greater authority than him. Nothing is stopping him from ending the practice today. Its not a bureaucratic oversite. Nothing happens without the Pope's approval.

Dude can reach down in the east texas and defrock a priest who says things about globalism.
Dude can pull a parish out of any archdiocese and put it under his own cathedra.
Dude can change anything about catholic liturgics or catholic church catechesis.

If there is a muslim praying in his tiny nation state its because he condones it.

The reason he doesn't is because A) Catholicism has already come out and said that muslims, jews, and christians all worship the same God. And B) Catholicism loves loves loves to point out similar, surface level, beliefs in other religions as bridges to catholicism. The idea of truth is universal and other religions have bits of truth (fine) has led to immensely bad christian actions.

So yes, part of this is that he wants to prop up catholicism by allowing this. Show his tolerance. Show his academic prowess by having the scholars of the world come there.

The only accolade I will grant the pope here is by doing this, by the head of the catholic church allowing a muslim have open prayer access on his grounds, he highlights the hypocrisy of the islamic nations. But the islamic nations don't care about the Pope levying weak complaints about hypocrisy.

Quote:

---

In refutation of the first quote, the verse goes on to state that if non-muslims pay the Jizya (muslim state tax of the time), then no violence will be used. It's not a blank check to commit indiscriminate violence.

---

So pay them money or get beheaded. Thanks for clearing that up.

Logos Stick said:

---

Quote:

---

In refutation of the first quote, the verse goes on to state that if non-muslims pay the Jizya (muslim state tax of the time), then no violence will be used. It's not a blank check to commit indiscriminate violence.

---

So pay them money or get beheaded. Thanks for clearing that up.

---

It was more about enforcing state law (instead of using attorneys, laws and the death penalty, using religious justification to punish people who don't pay the state tax). Extreme by our modern standards, sure, but back in 600 CE they probably thought it was justified to build a stable civilization. FWIW, Jizya hasn't been used since the 1880s.

"So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth"

Quote:

---

The Quran states, "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256).

---

This does not mean what you think it does.

It means that one who has come to believe in Islam is a true believer from the heart and has become a Muslim without any outside influence. Even if there are outside forces, if one comes to believe it was not because of those forces. It does not preclude outside pressure at all. Many Muslims believe in "forced" conversion.

In many Islamic states it is a crime to turn away from Islam and punishable by death. Thus, at the very least, that verse is not universally interpreted as you claim.

Vepp said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Islam: convert or die!

Pope Wokeist Marxist: welcome to the Vatican, here is your own prayer room.

---

The Quran states, "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256).

Pew research states that only 8% of Muslims believe violence in the name of religion is "sometimes or often justified". Of note, about one-quarter (27%) decline to offer an opinion. Still too many, but not close to a majority.

I couldn't find a study that is only about Christians; most lump Christians in with Christian Nationalists, which definitely skews the percentage.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/12/17/little-support-for-terrorism-among-muslim-americans/

/not a Muslim apologist, just trying to learn and be open-minded.

---

They will say that, but only when they are ion the minority. Once they have numbers, the script flips quickly.

Does the Vatican provide them mass transit?

Why isn't this on the Religion board?

I just think it's funny how several devout Catholic white nationalists on here love to constantly crap all over protestantism, when their church is constantly engaging in progressive anti-Christian crap like this.

It's always "My church would never xxxx like the protestants"

Brah, your church is run by progressive social justice warrior popes and clergy and I would not be surprised if at least 40-50% of all priests were closeted homosexuals (I do not condemn them for this if they don't act on it...just sayin).

Tex117 said:

---

Why isn't this on the Religion board?

---

Because it is a political stunt

Muhammad was a genocidal maniac who raped and pillaged and forced a SIX YEAR OLD GIRL to be his bride/sex slave.

The Vatican might as well bend over backwards to accommodate Nazis and Adolf Hitler enthusiasts. Although one could easily argue that Hitler was more morally upright and righteous than Muhammad, given Hitler never raped little children (that we know of).

This is just a small symptom of the problem that is as old as time. Muslims believe in the total destruction of everything and everyone in the world that isn't Muslim. That is the real bottom line problem that never changes or improves. It is the overriding problem in Gaza and the reason an ultimate resolution is probably not going to happen.

Vepp said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

zephyr88 said:

---

Quote:

---

Muslim scholars visiting the Vatican Apostolic Library ...

---

Wht about the Catholic scholars visiting Mecca - what do they get?

---

Why would catholic scholars visit Mecca? It holds no Christian significance.

---

Exactly. The Vatican library houses some of the world's oldest Qurans and vast Arabic, Islamic, and other religious manuscripts. Mecca holds ZERO significance to Christians.

This is about giving other humans access to historical records. If Mecca has a vast historical library, then we'd be comparing apples to apples.

---

Giving access to historical records and setting up a prayer room are two different things.

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

I just think it's funny how several devout Catholic white nationalists on here love to constantly crap all over protestantism, when their church is constantly engaging in progressive anti-Christian crap like this.

It's always "My church would never xxxx like the protestants"

Brah, your church is run by progressive social justice warrior popes and clergy and I would not be surprised if at least 40-50% of all priests were closeted homosexuals (I do not condemn them for this if they don't act on it...just sayin).

---

It's actually about 95%:5% Protestants bashing Catholics on this board. And disgusting overgeneralizations and falsehoods like what is bolded is the norm.

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

I just think it's funny how several devout Catholic white nationalists on here love to constantly crap all over protestantism, when their church is constantly engaging in progressive anti-Christian crap like this.

It's always "My church would never xxxx like the protestants"

Brah, your church is run by progressive social justice warrior popes and clergy and I would not be surprised if at least 40-50% of all priests were closeted homosexuals (I do not condemn them for this if they don't act on it...just sayin).

---

OK, I would say that 40-50% TV evangelist are con men... Just sayin.

doubledog said:

---

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

I just think it's funny how several devout Catholic white nationalists on here love to constantly crap all over protestantism, when their church is constantly engaging in progressive anti-Christian crap like this.

It's always "My church would never xxxx like the protestants"

Brah, your church is run by progressive social justice warrior popes and clergy and I would not be surprised if at least 40-50% of all priests were closeted homosexuals (I do not condemn them for this if they don't act on it...just sayin).

---

OK, I would say that 40-50% TV evangelist are con men... Just sayin.

---

Agreed...we don't claim them. At all.

We both worship the same God.

PabloSerna said:

---

We both worship the same God.

---

We do not. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God.

Kashchei said:

---

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

I just think it's funny how several devout Catholic white nationalists on here love to constantly crap all over protestantism, when their church is constantly engaging in progressive anti-Christian crap like this.

It's always "My church would never xxxx like the protestants"

Brah, your church is run by progressive social justice warrior popes and clergy and I would not be surprised if at least 40-50% of all priests were closeted homosexuals (I do not condemn them for this if they don't act on it...just sayin).

---

It's actually about 95%:5% Protestants bashing Catholics on this board. And disgusting overgeneralizations and falsehoods like what is bolded is the norm.

---

Respectfully, if I were a Catholic, I would be pleading for them to do away with the celibacy requirement. It has no biblical basis and just invites the sexually deviant types, who, to be fair, are doing what they truly believe is the noble and righteous thing. And I do believe that the vast majority can control their desires, no diff than the hetero priests. Let's be honest...there are very few masculine.manly priests who you would look at and think "that guy's got healthy testosterone levels".

I am rooting for the Catholic church to change. They could be so great with some true fundamental transformation back towards the bible.

PabloSerna said:

---

We both worship the same God.

---

We both believe in an all powerful creator, I'll acknowledge that...but the founder of their religion was a psychopathic mass murder and rapist who also liked to have sex with kindergarten aged children.

Your above statement is no different than someone saying "Hitler/Pol Pot/Stalin believed in a creator" IMO. Actually it is a little different, as I do not think these men were into raping six year olds.

PabloSerna said:

---

We both worship the same God.

---

NO! This is an evil lie. Where do you go to church?

• This is in a library, it was a nice accommodation to make for them. Might even go as far to say "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you"
• I know that some people are so completely team republican that they are willing to ignore what Christ taught, but the hyperbole on this thread about the Pope is insane
• About the counterpoint of "Well they wouldn't do it for us!" - already said by others but we have no interest nor need to learn and study their religion. Also, see point above treating others how you'd want to be treated. Doesn't matter if you'd be given anything in return.
• Someone above said the Catholic Church was declining but the numbers and reporting I have seen is it is seeing a resurgence among Gen Z

Probably deserves its own thread or discussion (this one is polluted) but there is a definitely a recent up tick of right wing pundits becoming Catholic or prominent republicans who are Catholic and I wonder what Protestants and Evangelicals think about that.

So, the Catholic church wants to be tolerant and permissive with Muslims......because that has a history of working ???????

I’m gonna try to do this as quick as possible in the knowledge that some people just need to be offended and indignant.
The Vatican library is a building within Vatican City.
In that library there are all kinds of texts, both ancient and more modern. You simply would not believe…

— Fr. Joseph Krupp (@Joeinblack) October 16, 2025

Quote:

---

The Vatican library is a building within Vatican City.

In that library there are all kinds of texts, both ancient and more modern. You simply would not believe the incredible things in there. The world's smallest Quran and the world's largest Quran are in there. One of the only books of Muslim poetry that survived the Mongol invasion are in there.

To get in is a very involved process, only between two and 3000 humans a year are allowed in. Going in and out of the library, even after having been accepted is quite the process. They do this to protect the building and the things in it. Many parts of the Vatican library are sealed because even air can corrupt these texts.

Muslim scholars have gone there to study for a very long time. Devout Muslims scholars are required to pray five times a day at fairly specific times. Each time, they would need to leave & go through all of the process of departing the building to do the 5 to 7 minute prayer that they are required to do and then go through the process of re-entering. The process for getting in and out is longer than the prayer time their faith requires them to have At some point, someone opened a small room and told them they could pray in there. It is basic good hospitality.

I'm going to be blunt here: many of you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. People have got you all fired up and jacked up over something because neither they nor you understand what the Vatican Library is or how it works.

---

TexasAggie81 said:

---

This does surprise me at all. The Catholic Church has been in a biblical tailspin for years. Now, it has the second heretical, apostate pope in a row. It invited its own downfall, and many devout people have ditched the church in response. This incident just confirms what many have known for a long while.

---

I have heard of missionaries. Unless you are asking about any in the highlighted countries, in which case I haven't.