You know the saying- those that can do, those that can't work for the …

We are so lucky to have a successful, intelligent, MAGA president. We all saw what happened under Hussein Obama and Joe Xiden. They almost intentionally destroyed this country. God sent us Trump.

I know a lot of farmers, I live in rural South Texas. I do not know a single one of them that is struggling. Maybe they are making a little less than they were a decade ago or so, but they are doing just fine.

As for ranchers, beef is at an all time high.

Mas89 said:

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You know the saying- those that can do, those that can't work for the …

We are so lucky to have a successful, intelligent, MAGA president. We all saw what happened under Hussein Obama and Joe Xiden. They almost intentionally destroyed this country. God sent us Trump.

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It appears that those that can't do (farmers) work for Trump now. Is that what you mean?

Had to address the massive trade imbalance. Tariffs were the only way. Changes are being made continuously to make it work for our country. It won't be perfect ever.
Gut government spending and our economy is gutted to some degree. Like it or not there is a reason or 37 Trillion reason for deficit spending. It has propped up our economy for many years.

The impact on the farmers is just the tip of the iceberg related to the negative economic impact of the tariffs.

But it is a wonderful playground for choosing winners and losers (i.e. grifting).

Mas89 said:

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Had to address the massive trade imbalance. Tariffs were the only way. Changes are being made continuously to make it work for our country. It won't be perfect ever.
Gut government spending and our economy is gutted to some degree. Like it or not there is a reason or 37 Trillion reason for deficit spending. It has propped up our economy for many years.

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No we really didn't and liberalism (as tariffs are) is never the answer.

Mas89 said:

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Duh… our whole economy, including those small businesses would have collapsed years ago without the government bailout. Think 1930s.

This is the part that so many otherwise intelligent, educated people just can't comprehend.

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What bailout has allowed my small business to survive? The government came close to snuffing it out in 2020 but did not bail me out.

Mas89 said:

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Obviously not. But much better off than Cuba, Haiti, Africa, and pretty much the rest of the world.
But please invest your money in the country you admire most.

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Trump has his "we are better than Biden" and you say we are better than Cuba and Africa.

I hope you have a better answer next time.

Try again.

DarkBrandon01 said:

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Any company that requires bailouts to survive should just be owned by the government.

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1) Government does something to kill a thriving industry
2) Government takes control of former thriving industry

Brilliant.

Mas89 said:

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Had to address the massive trade imbalance. Tariffs were the only way. Changes are being made continuously to make it work for our country. It won't be perfect ever.
Gut government spending and our economy is gutted to some degree. Like it or not there is a reason or 37 Trillion reason for deficit spending. It has propped up our economy for many years.

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That is the Keynesian argument but a lot of history shows ours and other countries grew much faster when government was a lot smaller. For instance, how much less is this economy producing because we give handouts to people rather than making them go out and produce? We also have a lot of people working for the governement which is in most cases not productive rather than have jobs in the private sector.

The argument the government is what has kept the economy going sounds like government officials that claim they created millions of jobs.

Kansas Kid said:

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Mas89 said:

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Had to address the massive trade imbalance. Tariffs were the only way. Changes are being made continuously to make it work for our country. It won't be perfect ever.
Gut government spending and our economy is gutted to some degree. Like it or not there is a reason or 37 Trillion reason for deficit spending. It has propped up our economy for many years.

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That is the Keynesian argument but a lot of history shows ours and other countries grew much faster when government was a lot smaller. For instance, how much less is this economy producing because we give handouts to people rather than making them go out and produce? We also have a lot of people working for the governement which is in most cases not productive rather than have jobs in the private sector.

The argument the government is what has kept the economy going sounds like government officials that claim they created millions of jobs.

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The economics term is called The Crowding Out Effect which regressive Democrats believe doesnt exist.

World debt and how/why it was "created".

Required viewing.

Agreed but let's be clear, unfortunately most Republicans also don't believe it exists which is why they are calling for this subsidy to farmers as one of many examples.

B-1 83 said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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Any company that requires bailouts to survive should just be owned by the government.

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I know you think this is some sort of intelligent quip, but it shows a total cognitive disconnect about the strategic and economic interests of this country. The current commodity situation is years in the making, and international in scope. Why are you against the preservation of family farms?

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Because it's not about family farms anymore. The small family farms have already gone out of business or will be within the next two years. What you'd consider to be large family operations are the ones that pressed it in the nineties and early 2000's and put themselves in position to be raking in $$ while the government bailouts continue and they ride off in the sunset. Most of their children want nothing to do with it, and they will disappear as soon as the dads pass way (10-20 years).

Pull your head out and see the fact the government is using the same strategy they've used in countless other areas. Squeeze until they "have to step in" then it's theirs to oversee. Not too difficult to see what's happening.

eric76 said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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Any company that requires bailouts to survive should just be owned by the government.

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We do not need to become Communist.

The fastest path to poverty is most likely to let the government control agriculture.

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See also: Stalin, Ukraine - 1933-34

Chapter 7, Sheep jumping the gun

Another enjoyable read where 49 sheep are upset about farmers getting governmental assistance before knowing what the actual assistance entails. Really, the people I want to see getting any assistance are farmers right? Heck they already get first dibs on all of the food!

Tom Fox said:

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Mas89 said:

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Duh… our whole economy, including those small businesses would have collapsed years ago without the government bailout. Think 1930s.

This is the part that so many otherwise intelligent, educated people just can't comprehend.

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What bailout has allowed my small business to survive? The government came close to snuffing it out in 2020 but did not bail me out.

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It is the Manufacturing and Production businesses that get bailed out. Other businesses in service and/ or sales benefit indirectly from this government action. Our entire economy would have collapsed during the COVID years without our government intervention/ bailouts. Yours Included.

What Product do You Manufacture or Produce?

GeorgiAg said:

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I wanted to see y'alls opinion on this. I am still not a fan of tariffs since they are a tax on US citizens and businesses, and it is having impacts like this so that we have to use taxpayer money to bail out the harm caused by tariffs. My general opinion is get rid of the tax and spend mentality, not increase it.

My understanding of tariffs is that for most goods, they are a one-time inflation shock and then everyone adapts so the inflationary shock is not an ongoing thing. But I don't think that applies to farm/agriculture when other countries are simply buying elsewhere. Plus, I wonder how much pressure this puts on this administration to cave on other things like sensitive chips to China, for example.

WE ❤️OUR FARMERS 🚜

"I'm delighted to announce this afternoon that the United States will be taking a small portion of the hundreds of billions of dollars we receive in tariffs... We're going to use that money to provide $12B in economic assistance to American farmers." @POTUS pic.twitter.com/yLDQ8DNot4

— The White House (@WhiteHouse) December 8, 2025

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I normally hate subsidies but there is always going to be one valid reason and that's national security. Believe it or not, being able to produce your own food is a massive security issue.

For sure. NOW Trump needs to step up and Require Mandatory Country of Origin Labeling on All Food Imports.

Lots of talk with no action for too long.

Corn Pop said:

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B-1 83 said:

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DarkBrandon01 said:

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Any company that requires bailouts to survive should just be owned by the government.

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I know you think this is some sort of intelligent quip, but it shows a total cognitive disconnect about the strategic and economic interests of this country. The current commodity situation is years in the making, and international in scope. Why are you against the preservation of family farms?

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Because it's not about family farms anymore. The small family farms have already gone out of business or will be within the next two years. What you'd consider to be large family operations are the ones that pressed it in the nineties and early 2000's and put themselves in position to be raking in $$ while the government bailouts continue.

Pull your head out and see the fact the government is using the same strategy they've used in countless other areas. Squeeze until they "have to step in" then it's theirs to oversee. Not too difficult to see what's happening.

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Oh really?
While it's popular and trendy to rail on "corporate farms" as if ConAgra owned millions of acres, but it's simply not true. The vast majority of farms are still family owned.
https://www.nass.usda.gov/Newsroom/2025/08-19-2025.php

Exactly. That dude has never driven from Texas to North Dakota! Unbelievable the number of small farms and communities that rely entirely on the local farm economies in rural America, including Texas.

Trump now needs to work on exports and the thing that will help most- higher commodity prices. This bailout is a small bandaid in comparison.
Our government for decades bought and donated excess farm commodities from our own country to poor countries as aid- PL480 program. Then we Foolishly started giving poor countries cash to use as they wanted…

infinity ag said:

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So much for "free markets" and "we are capitalists" and "we are conservatives".

All the while giving subsidies to farmers!

We need to quit the charade.

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Very true.

But this time it makes even more sense since Trump is said to be going on a tour soon. Doing this will give him another thing to talk about. All of this right before next year's election cycle ramps up.

He's doing as much as he can to keep the right in charge of everything after the elections next year. If only he didn't have to do things like this for it.

Very important to keep the current Midwest farm states Republican. They are the swing states on the congress and senate balance of power. The Communist/ Socialist would ruin this country soon if given the chance- see Tampon Tim and his Fuzzy Foreigners in Minnesota…
Trump playing the long, smart game once again and Owning the Libs.

Mas89 said:

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Very important to keep the current Midwest farm states Republican. They are the swing states on the congress and senate balance of power. The Communist/ Socialist would ruin this country soon if given the chance- see Tampon Tim and his Fuzzy Foreigners in Minnesota…
Trump playing the long, smart game once again and Owning the Libs.

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But those people, especially farmers never vote Democrat. Ever. So it the people already are going to vote for whoever Trump tells them to why put our country in more debt?

This was always my problem with tariffs, or any other time the government tells us they "saved" money or generated new revenue. They just find another pet project to spend the money on.

Trump talks about the national debt as a national emergency, brags about DOGE cuts and how much we are going to save, then instead of actually attacking the debt, talks about sending out checks or some other dumb way to spend it. Wash, rinse, repeat with tariffs.

I wish you were right, but sadly there are plenty of yellow dog old school Democrats up there. Soy boys exist everywhere.
And to answer your question, it's very important to protect and support All of our country's Production and Manufacturing businesses which produce a product.
Sales, Service, and Government sectors are all needed, but Production and Manufacturing are Essential.

Mas89 said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Mas89 said:

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Duh… our whole economy, including those small businesses would have collapsed years ago without the government bailout. Think 1930s.

This is the part that so many otherwise intelligent, educated people just can't comprehend.

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What bailout has allowed my small business to survive? The government came close to snuffing it out in 2020 but did not bail me out.

---

It is the Manufacturing and Production businesses that get bailed out. Other businesses in service and/ or sales benefit indirectly from this government action. Our entire economy would have collapsed during the COVID years without our government intervention/ bailouts. Yours Included.

What Product do You Manufacture or Produce?

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I provide legal services usually to the lower or lower middle class.

Quad Dog said:

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Who could have predicted this would have happened again when it happened the first Trump term when he played around with tariffs and had to bail out farmers in 2018?

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We rail against China and other countries when they tariff a good and subsidize their producers, and then we turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. This is the part of the tariff process where everyone ends up worse off.

American farmers are gonna need closer to $120 billion but $12B is a good start.

Mas89 said:

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Exactly. That dude has never driven from Texas to North Dakota! Unbelievable the number of small farms and communities that rely entirely on the local farm economies in rural America, including Texas.

Trump now needs to work on exports and the thing that will help most- higher commodity prices. This bailout is a small bandaid in comparison.
Our government for decades bought and donated excess farm commodities from our own country to poor countries as aid- PL480 program. Then we Foolishly started giving poor countries cash to use as they wanted…

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I corrected my original post. When I said small family farms I was talking about the good ol days where a family could get by on two sections. I was too broad in my statement. The real problem is going to happen in the next 10-20 years because these guys don't have children willing to come back and fight this mess.

HTownAg98 said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Who could have predicted this would have happened again when it happened the first Trump term when he played around with tariffs and had to bail out farmers in 2018?

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We rail against China and other countries when they tariff a good and subsidize their producers, and then we turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. This is the part of the tariff process where everyone ends up worse off.

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That's why ag commodities will never really 100% fit the "free market" per se, and it remains in the economic and strategic interests of the United States to maintain a viable farm economy.

B-1 83 said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Quad Dog said:

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Who could have predicted this would have happened again when it happened the first Trump term when he played around with tariffs and had to bail out farmers in 2018?

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We rail against China and other countries when they tariff a good and subsidize their producers, and then we turn around and do the EXACT SAME THING. This is the part of the tariff process where everyone ends up worse off.

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That's why ag commodities will never really 100% fit the "free market" per se, and it remains in the economic and strategic interests of the United States to maintain a viable farm economy.

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New Zealand ended virtually all subsidies in 1984 and despite the forecasts of collapse, there farmers continue to do well. Ronald Reagan said it best that the most terrifying words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"

"New Zealand's Ministry for Primary Industries detailed the many unintended consequences of insulating agriculture from market forces. Farmers misallocated resources and made decisions based off maximizing subsidy revenue instead of adjusting to consumer preferences and other market signals. Environmentally harmful practices were normalized as farmers brought highly erodible ground into production that wouldn't make sense to farm without aid programs. Subsidies were capitalized into land prices, locking out younger and beginning farmers trying to break into the industry. Productivity flatlined as farmers had no incentive to innovate."

There are also American farmers that exited the government programs to great results.

https://www.cato.org/free-society/summer-2024/freedom-farm-lessons-new-zealand

You are comparing the ag commodity power of New Zealand with the US?

Sure, it's Wiki, but I don't see New Zealand listed anywhere on the leading commodity lists other than sheep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_producing_countries_of_agricultural_commodities#Spices

NZ isn't a top country due to the size and population but it actually helps make a case for if they can do it, why can't one of the countries that is a bread basket of the world do it (that also has a massive internal market)

Australia isn't quite as low as NZ on subsidies but they are a lot lower than the US. They come in fourth for Ag exports.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/agricultural-exports-by-country

I'm work in specialty agriculture (vegetables/fruits,etc) and the relief is 100% needed if we want the non-corporate grower to survive.

The on-again, off-again tariff environment this spring/summer was devastating in specialty crops. Here's why...

Trump announced tariffs would go into effect x number of days later. As a result, every import grower loaded product into the states and flooded the market. This caused markets to crater into a PAS (price after sale) environment. When markets get to this state, farmers are lucky to get their harvest costs out of their crop. It's devastating. Add to the situation that this happened multiple times and you ended up flooding the market multiple times. This took us through most of the domestic season with heavily depressed markets. It only changed when the combination of a MX hurricane and crop-destroying rain/heat events killed a lot of already-struggling producers in the Midwest and East Coast regions

Add to that the labor crunch and things got really nasty. Labor contractors raised prices and crews were very unreliable as many, many crews decided to return to MX to avoid getting popped. Most of these crews follow regulations but will have a few folks that aren't compliant mixed in. Domestic labor is functionally unavailable and falling behind harvesting specialty crops causes returns to be further reduced as higher-return outlets do not take larger sized products. I wanted to utilize US labor well ahead of the crackdown and partnered with the local prison system to find domestic work and even the incarcerated wouldn't do the work. They'd rather be in prison without air conditioning than work harvesting crops. I got zero responses from domestic workers.

Combine those two inputs and most growers lost a fortune this year. Many are going out of business. Check out the equipment auction sites and you'll see it first-hand.