infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Everything I see in that policy sounds great. Getting rid of the Lottery is just so overdue and necessary for one, that alone is a monster win. The $100k fee sounds like it has some caveats and will focus on new visas which is good. Much easier to replace junior level folks than Mid/Senior for a company. This will make it so that the 5 year experienced Engineer can still work and the company needs that skillset but the new college grads on F-1 looking for an H-1 are likely going to be screwed unless they have a great skillset. That will force employers to hire Citizens to train and grow instead of foreigners.

There are some fields that are 80% plus visa and it's going to take time to settle out. Primarily that's testing, verification, etc type roles that are monotonous and less appealing. Most Citizens don't go into those fields any more. So those roles are the most likely to get offshored, I'm seeing a big boost in Canadian roles as well.

I like the bold moves mixed with some outlets for companies to adjust. You can't reverse 20 years of policy and how companies have gotten used to doing business overnight without a huge impact. This is allowing companies to make plans to adjust. For instance even if they decided they wanted to hire just citizens there simply aren't enough qualified ones in some fields right now, in part because so many people doing those jobs are on visa and have been for a while. It forces companies to prioritize who they want to give visas to and only to the most critical skillsets they can't easily replace. There will be some offshoring but I think it will be a lot less than people realize and not in the areas that matter most. That's why the merit and $100k policies are so important, it leaves a safety valve to keep the truly best and brightest. The key is it is still a massive drop down to the next country in terms of where those top engineers want to live both in terms of lifestyle and more importantly where the action is. No one else has anything to remotely compare with the Bay Area or Seattle or even Austin.

So many moving pieces with this but I am very happy with the direction we are headed, I just hope we have a couple of years to let it sort out because if we do this will fundamentally change so many things in a positive way for young people in the US going into tech.

---

I agree with everything you say.

Except one thing.
There is a section of American tech people who do go into testing and verification. Not everyone is a super smart person who can devise new AI models, there are people who just want routine no-brain testing jobs. Nothing wrong in that, to each his/her own. My wife started her tech career being a tester before she moved out into areas she enjoys. Testing is a good entry point also.

We absolutely need to keep entry level jobs in America. No offshoring there, else tax them 100%. The economy is an ecosystem and everything works with everything else. You disrupt the entry level jobs and kill them, then kids in America don't want to get into tech anymore (as they can't get jobs) and then this gives more reason to scummy US CEOs to claim there is no talent in America and offshore even more and for the wise Boomers to advise people to do HVAC and take up plumbing jobs.

So I demand 100% taxing on all outsourced entry level jobs.
Wait... maybe Trump's new plan takes care of that with his 100k fee. Dude is smart.

---

Don't disagree that Americans can and do go into those fields, I am just saying that those areas are the heaviest in H-1s. When I open a job for a junior/mid level in those fields it is just overwhelmingly H-1s or F-1/OPT hoping to get an H-1 at a rate higher than others. My point is those areas are a challenge because we simply don't have many Americans doing it now and there is a definite need. There are certainly ways to solve that.

I also agree that Testing and Verification, etc are great places to work in. Some people thrive at it. It's also a great place for a more junior person to learn and grow. Most of those areas are SDET types now as well and not doing manual testing, they are writing Python and other code to develop automated testing that is customized for the application.

My main point is we need to look at the areas most impacted and how we can resolve them. Those skillsets are also the most likely to be offshored and they are more likely to be impacted by AI as well.

There are other specialties that are really disproportionate in H-1s as well. Typically they end up being areas that are less "sexy" but not always. I am just very pleased with how Trump is approaching this, he's laying down the gauntlet and forcing major change but he also is being aware of the impacts of that change and moving too fast.

I hope this sticks and helps kill and or majorly reform this program. Time this bull**** ended.

Trump! Trump! Trump!

All these scammy immigration lawyer types are crying because of lost business.
I notice many videos popping up which try to teach people how to game the system. Don't they realize that this is what got us in this mess in the first place?

Look at how the Indian chap refers to the President - "that guy".

aggie93 said:

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infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Everything I see in that policy sounds great. Getting rid of the Lottery is just so overdue and necessary for one, that alone is a monster win. The $100k fee sounds like it has some caveats and will focus on new visas which is good. Much easier to replace junior level folks than Mid/Senior for a company. This will make it so that the 5 year experienced Engineer can still work and the company needs that skillset but the new college grads on F-1 looking for an H-1 are likely going to be screwed unless they have a great skillset. That will force employers to hire Citizens to train and grow instead of foreigners.

There are some fields that are 80% plus visa and it's going to take time to settle out. Primarily that's testing, verification, etc type roles that are monotonous and less appealing. Most Citizens don't go into those fields any more. So those roles are the most likely to get offshored, I'm seeing a big boost in Canadian roles as well.

I like the bold moves mixed with some outlets for companies to adjust. You can't reverse 20 years of policy and how companies have gotten used to doing business overnight without a huge impact. This is allowing companies to make plans to adjust. For instance even if they decided they wanted to hire just citizens there simply aren't enough qualified ones in some fields right now, in part because so many people doing those jobs are on visa and have been for a while. It forces companies to prioritize who they want to give visas to and only to the most critical skillsets they can't easily replace. There will be some offshoring but I think it will be a lot less than people realize and not in the areas that matter most. That's why the merit and $100k policies are so important, it leaves a safety valve to keep the truly best and brightest. The key is it is still a massive drop down to the next country in terms of where those top engineers want to live both in terms of lifestyle and more importantly where the action is. No one else has anything to remotely compare with the Bay Area or Seattle or even Austin.

So many moving pieces with this but I am very happy with the direction we are headed, I just hope we have a couple of years to let it sort out because if we do this will fundamentally change so many things in a positive way for young people in the US going into tech.

---

I agree with everything you say.

Except one thing.
There is a section of American tech people who do go into testing and verification. Not everyone is a super smart person who can devise new AI models, there are people who just want routine no-brain testing jobs. Nothing wrong in that, to each his/her own. My wife started her tech career being a tester before she moved out into areas she enjoys. Testing is a good entry point also.

We absolutely need to keep entry level jobs in America. No offshoring there, else tax them 100%. The economy is an ecosystem and everything works with everything else. You disrupt the entry level jobs and kill them, then kids in America don't want to get into tech anymore (as they can't get jobs) and then this gives more reason to scummy US CEOs to claim there is no talent in America and offshore even more and for the wise Boomers to advise people to do HVAC and take up plumbing jobs.

So I demand 100% taxing on all outsourced entry level jobs.
Wait... maybe Trump's new plan takes care of that with his 100k fee. Dude is smart.

---

Don't disagree that Americans can and do go into those fields, I am just saying that those areas are the heaviest in H-1s. When I open a job for a junior/mid level in those fields it is just overwhelmingly H-1s or F-1/OPT hoping to get an H-1 at a rate higher than others. My point is those areas are a challenge because we simply don't have many Americans doing it now and there is a definite need. There are certainly ways to solve that.

I also agree that Testing and Verification, etc are great places to work in. Some people thrive at it. It's also a great place for a more junior person to learn and grow. Most of those areas are SDET types now as well and not doing manual testing, they are writing Python and other code to develop automated testing that is customized for the application.

My main point is we need to look at the areas most impacted and how we can resolve them. Those skillsets are also the most likely to be offshored and they are more likely to be impacted by AI as well.

There are other specialties that are really disproportionate in H-1s as well. Typically they end up being areas that are less "sexy" but not always. I am just very pleased with how Trump is approaching this, he's laying down the gauntlet and forcing major change but he also is being aware of the impacts of that change and moving too fast.

---

Testing and verification is one of the entry points for older Americans who want to switch into tech from other fields, so this must be kept open and not sold out to H1Bs. Testing is also lower paid so I believe this will soon move away from the H1B stranglehold. I think more than H1Bs, it is under the hold of H4 spouses, the bored wives who need something to do and want some pocket money while the H1B husband works. I believe Obama opened it up, it must be closed quickly as no spouse needs to be taking jobs from Americans.

I believe OPT will be next to be hit. OPT (Optional Practical Training) is a temporary employment authorization that allows F-1international students in the United States to gain practical work experience related to their major area of study. In this period they can work for any employer for 12 months for any employers.

I read somewhere that companies do not have to pay tax while hiring OPT foreigner students. They do for a US citizen. So they save money by hiring foreigners. This must go.

Judge sides with Trump over his $100K visa fee
The decision from Judge Beryl Howell, an Obama appointee, is the first test of the White House's H-1B policy.

Thank you Judge Howell. Judges get a lot of hate but it is also important to praise the good ones.

Chief U.S. District Judge for the District of Columbia Beryl A. Howell. | Alex Wong/Getty Images

infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Everything I see in that policy sounds great. Getting rid of the Lottery is just so overdue and necessary for one, that alone is a monster win. The $100k fee sounds like it has some caveats and will focus on new visas which is good. Much easier to replace junior level folks than Mid/Senior for a company. This will make it so that the 5 year experienced Engineer can still work and the company needs that skillset but the new college grads on F-1 looking for an H-1 are likely going to be screwed unless they have a great skillset. That will force employers to hire Citizens to train and grow instead of foreigners.

There are some fields that are 80% plus visa and it's going to take time to settle out. Primarily that's testing, verification, etc type roles that are monotonous and less appealing. Most Citizens don't go into those fields any more. So those roles are the most likely to get offshored, I'm seeing a big boost in Canadian roles as well.

I like the bold moves mixed with some outlets for companies to adjust. You can't reverse 20 years of policy and how companies have gotten used to doing business overnight without a huge impact. This is allowing companies to make plans to adjust. For instance even if they decided they wanted to hire just citizens there simply aren't enough qualified ones in some fields right now, in part because so many people doing those jobs are on visa and have been for a while. It forces companies to prioritize who they want to give visas to and only to the most critical skillsets they can't easily replace. There will be some offshoring but I think it will be a lot less than people realize and not in the areas that matter most. That's why the merit and $100k policies are so important, it leaves a safety valve to keep the truly best and brightest. The key is it is still a massive drop down to the next country in terms of where those top engineers want to live both in terms of lifestyle and more importantly where the action is. No one else has anything to remotely compare with the Bay Area or Seattle or even Austin.

So many moving pieces with this but I am very happy with the direction we are headed, I just hope we have a couple of years to let it sort out because if we do this will fundamentally change so many things in a positive way for young people in the US going into tech.

---

I agree with everything you say.

Except one thing.
There is a section of American tech people who do go into testing and verification. Not everyone is a super smart person who can devise new AI models, there are people who just want routine no-brain testing jobs. Nothing wrong in that, to each his/her own. My wife started her tech career being a tester before she moved out into areas she enjoys. Testing is a good entry point also.

We absolutely need to keep entry level jobs in America. No offshoring there, else tax them 100%. The economy is an ecosystem and everything works with everything else. You disrupt the entry level jobs and kill them, then kids in America don't want to get into tech anymore (as they can't get jobs) and then this gives more reason to scummy US CEOs to claim there is no talent in America and offshore even more and for the wise Boomers to advise people to do HVAC and take up plumbing jobs.

So I demand 100% taxing on all outsourced entry level jobs.
Wait... maybe Trump's new plan takes care of that with his 100k fee. Dude is smart.

---

Don't disagree that Americans can and do go into those fields, I am just saying that those areas are the heaviest in H-1s. When I open a job for a junior/mid level in those fields it is just overwhelmingly H-1s or F-1/OPT hoping to get an H-1 at a rate higher than others. My point is those areas are a challenge because we simply don't have many Americans doing it now and there is a definite need. There are certainly ways to solve that.

I also agree that Testing and Verification, etc are great places to work in. Some people thrive at it. It's also a great place for a more junior person to learn and grow. Most of those areas are SDET types now as well and not doing manual testing, they are writing Python and other code to develop automated testing that is customized for the application.

My main point is we need to look at the areas most impacted and how we can resolve them. Those skillsets are also the most likely to be offshored and they are more likely to be impacted by AI as well.

There are other specialties that are really disproportionate in H-1s as well. Typically they end up being areas that are less "sexy" but not always. I am just very pleased with how Trump is approaching this, he's laying down the gauntlet and forcing major change but he also is being aware of the impacts of that change and moving too fast.

---

Testing and verification is one of the entry points for older Americans who want to switch into tech from other fields, so this must be kept open and not sold out to H1Bs. Testing is also lower paid so I believe this will soon move away from the H1B stranglehold. I think more than H1Bs, it is under the hold of H4 spouses, the bored wives who need something to do and want some pocket money while the H1B husband works. I believe Obama opened it up, it must be closed quickly as no spouse needs to be taking jobs from Americans.

I believe OPT will be next to be hit. OPT (Optional Practical Training) is a temporary employment authorization that allows F-1international students in the United States to gain practical work experience related to their major area of study. In this period they can work for any employer for 12 months for any employers.

I read somewhere that companies do not have to pay tax while hiring OPT foreigner students. They do for a US citizen. So they save money by hiring foreigners. This must go.

---

Once again, not disagreeing with you that we should not give this up. My point is that it is an area that is overwhelmingly H-1s so you can't just shut off the spigot without serious consequences, there simply aren't many experienced Citizens. That can and will change but it will take some time. Other areas are less impacted.

OPT is going to die because of H-1s. Companies don't want to hire someone they can't put on visa later, it essentially makes them a contractor. Those folks also will just start looking for work back home or in places like Canada. I can tell you companies already are putting serious constraints on OPT hiring. From a business perspective you would rather hire the junior level citizen and train them over the OPT because you can retain the Citizen after they get experience.

Lot so downstream consequences from each of these actions.

aggie93 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Everything I see in that policy sounds great. Getting rid of the Lottery is just so overdue and necessary for one, that alone is a monster win. The $100k fee sounds like it has some caveats and will focus on new visas which is good. Much easier to replace junior level folks than Mid/Senior for a company. This will make it so that the 5 year experienced Engineer can still work and the company needs that skillset but the new college grads on F-1 looking for an H-1 are likely going to be screwed unless they have a great skillset. That will force employers to hire Citizens to train and grow instead of foreigners.

There are some fields that are 80% plus visa and it's going to take time to settle out. Primarily that's testing, verification, etc type roles that are monotonous and less appealing. Most Citizens don't go into those fields any more. So those roles are the most likely to get offshored, I'm seeing a big boost in Canadian roles as well.

I like the bold moves mixed with some outlets for companies to adjust. You can't reverse 20 years of policy and how companies have gotten used to doing business overnight without a huge impact. This is allowing companies to make plans to adjust. For instance even if they decided they wanted to hire just citizens there simply aren't enough qualified ones in some fields right now, in part because so many people doing those jobs are on visa and have been for a while. It forces companies to prioritize who they want to give visas to and only to the most critical skillsets they can't easily replace. There will be some offshoring but I think it will be a lot less than people realize and not in the areas that matter most. That's why the merit and $100k policies are so important, it leaves a safety valve to keep the truly best and brightest. The key is it is still a massive drop down to the next country in terms of where those top engineers want to live both in terms of lifestyle and more importantly where the action is. No one else has anything to remotely compare with the Bay Area or Seattle or even Austin.

So many moving pieces with this but I am very happy with the direction we are headed, I just hope we have a couple of years to let it sort out because if we do this will fundamentally change so many things in a positive way for young people in the US going into tech.

---

I agree with everything you say.

Except one thing.
There is a section of American tech people who do go into testing and verification. Not everyone is a super smart person who can devise new AI models, there are people who just want routine no-brain testing jobs. Nothing wrong in that, to each his/her own. My wife started her tech career being a tester before she moved out into areas she enjoys. Testing is a good entry point also.

We absolutely need to keep entry level jobs in America. No offshoring there, else tax them 100%. The economy is an ecosystem and everything works with everything else. You disrupt the entry level jobs and kill them, then kids in America don't want to get into tech anymore (as they can't get jobs) and then this gives more reason to scummy US CEOs to claim there is no talent in America and offshore even more and for the wise Boomers to advise people to do HVAC and take up plumbing jobs.

So I demand 100% taxing on all outsourced entry level jobs.
Wait... maybe Trump's new plan takes care of that with his 100k fee. Dude is smart.

---

Don't disagree that Americans can and do go into those fields, I am just saying that those areas are the heaviest in H-1s. When I open a job for a junior/mid level in those fields it is just overwhelmingly H-1s or F-1/OPT hoping to get an H-1 at a rate higher than others. My point is those areas are a challenge because we simply don't have many Americans doing it now and there is a definite need. There are certainly ways to solve that.

I also agree that Testing and Verification, etc are great places to work in. Some people thrive at it. It's also a great place for a more junior person to learn and grow. Most of those areas are SDET types now as well and not doing manual testing, they are writing Python and other code to develop automated testing that is customized for the application.

My main point is we need to look at the areas most impacted and how we can resolve them. Those skillsets are also the most likely to be offshored and they are more likely to be impacted by AI as well.

There are other specialties that are really disproportionate in H-1s as well. Typically they end up being areas that are less "sexy" but not always. I am just very pleased with how Trump is approaching this, he's laying down the gauntlet and forcing major change but he also is being aware of the impacts of that change and moving too fast.

---

Testing and verification is one of the entry points for older Americans who want to switch into tech from other fields, so this must be kept open and not sold out to H1Bs. Testing is also lower paid so I believe this will soon move away from the H1B stranglehold. I think more than H1Bs, it is under the hold of H4 spouses, the bored wives who need something to do and want some pocket money while the H1B husband works. I believe Obama opened it up, it must be closed quickly as no spouse needs to be taking jobs from Americans.

I believe OPT will be next to be hit. OPT (Optional Practical Training) is a temporary employment authorization that allows F-1international students in the United States to gain practical work experience related to their major area of study. In this period they can work for any employer for 12 months for any employers.

I read somewhere that companies do not have to pay tax while hiring OPT foreigner students. They do for a US citizen. So they save money by hiring foreigners. This must go.

---

Once again, not disagreeing with you that we should not give this up. My point is that it is an area that is overwhelmingly H-1s so you can't just shut off the spigot without serious consequences, there simply aren't many experienced Citizens. That can and will change but it will take some time. Other areas are less impacted.

OPT is going to die because of H-1s. Companies don't want to hire someone they can't put on visa later, it essentially makes them a contractor. Those folks also will just start looking for work back home or in places like Canada. I can tell you companies already are putting serious constraints on OPT hiring. From a business perspective you would rather hire the junior level citizen and train them over the OPT because you can retain the Citizen after they get experience.

Lot so downstream consequences from each of these actions.

---

First part, I agree. We are so addicted to H1B that we cannot remove it without suffering the impact. It has to be done gradually. I am waiting for a time when we have entire batches of US kids in CS getting jobs, from testing to AI research. Not possible now even for the smartest kids.

I don't understand OPT too well but I am happy that you say it will die too. I don't think Canada is a good option anymore, though their PM said it, they are pushing people out. Great to hear your analysis. Looks like Trump and team thought this one through and are executing it very well.