By the way, I ran some quick math on the expected family contribution for a family of 4 with one kid attending college making 95k/year with no assets. The parent contribution is $26k. Yet, A&M will cover tuition for this individual.

This is stupid and shouldn't exist.

We need more merit based assistance.

I don't care who benefits more or utilizes it etc etc. this isn't a damn free lunch program. It's an education. If you want one you should earn it or pay for it. They already have plenty of scholarships that exclude people based on race, finances, gender, you name it.

This is just more budgetary shenanigans to squeeze the taxpayers harder and get more public money into a University swimming with cash and DEI make-work jobs like the Liberal Arts department.

Who voted for this?

What are the residency requirements around this? TX resident for a year? 2?

Maybe I'll move back to TX, quit work, let my kids go to college for free...then go back to work when they graduate. As a Mexican, no way they can tell me no!

AustinAg2K said:

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There's no reason any Texas resident should pay any tuition for A&M or Texas. They also shouldn't receive any taxes. Both school systems have more than enough money in their endowments to fully cover tuition for all their students.

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this how Ga operates using lottery money to fund it. Any student who has a B average has free tuition to any state school they are admitted to.

shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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Well, luckily for us SCOTUS killed disparate impact when it comes to race-based things, so this issue is supposed to be dead.

And, I like it that way.

But, it is pretty plain to see that this will favor minorities. But it will also favor poor white people just as much. In that case, this policy is color blind, in that it is a simple formula with no individual discretion, and treats all races the same.

But, I don't see anywhere on this page where anyone has made a claim about racial stuff until this specific post.

Why does everything have to be about race when it comes to these arguments?

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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Muy said:

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People who get things for free tend to expect things for free and are the first to cause problems because they don't appreciate what they were given.

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Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I know a number of people who grew up on government assistance as children and now own their own businesses. These people understand that they don't want to be poor and found a way to change the family tree. Of course, that is anecdotal, and you did say they tend to but there are times when it works.

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Unfortunately they are statistically unusual. All you have to do is look at the Great Society programs and how virtually all of them made the problems they were designed to solve worse because they create dependence. It's really hard to walk away from free stuff even if you want to. Of course they tried programs like tax credits for working and such but the reality is when you can basically live about the same and not work most people won't work or take risks. As it becomes a multi generational issue or you have single parent households it becomes even harder to break that pattern. You also encourage cash businesses or illegal activity or any other ways to hide income so you can still keep getting the free stuff.

Some people absolutely do it and that's awesome but realistically most do not.

Ghost91 said:

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Work hard, be disciplined, live within your means, and save so you can have nice things.

Or be lazy and reckless and get just about everything for free.

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Yep...

Everywhere I look, people/institutions are determined to punish success instead of rewarding it.

The Chicken Ranch said:

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I agree with OP. Don't charge tuition for anyone that is from Texas that can get in. It's not as if A&M's endowment can't support this.

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You think administrative bloat and gold plated facilities pay for themselves? Endowment and PUF are still not enough. We need another monument to interdisciplinary sciences and a 4th senior director of recruiting Vietnamese kids in South Houston. I would strongly support any politician who promises to DOGE the hell out of TAMU and other public universities.

I didn't think you were and apologies if it seem like I implied that. I've got some family members on government assistance and they are the most "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" type of people and yet never seem to be able to.

Isn't this "socialism"?

I was expecting all the hard core capitalists here to be up in arms shouting this plan down.

Typically the way it works is capitalism for everyone else, socialism for oneself.

The Collective said:

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Well, it covers assets too. Going to get sunk by those 529 balances. Guess I won't get divorced.

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One of the things I resented the most was filling out my FAFSA for my son and seeing that my 529 I invested in to save for their college was being used against me. That's how the system works, it penalizes the responsible.

So is this based on MAGI or assets like FASPA?

infinity ag said:

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Isn't this "socialism"?

I was expecting all the hard core capitalists here to be up in arms shouting this plan down.

Typically the way it works is capitalism for everyone else, socialism for oneself.

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What do you mean? 90% of the posters on this thread are against the move...

shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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Why bring race into it? That's inherently racist, in and of itself.


Stop punishing successful people. Our society continues to remove the incentives, which spur greatness...and then wonder why we're falling behind.

aggie93 said:

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The Collective said:

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Well, it covers assets too. Going to get sunk by those 529 balances. Guess I won't get divorced.

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One of the things I resented the most was filling out my FAFSA for my son and seeing that my 529 I invested in to save for their college was being used against me. That's how the system works, it penalizes the responsible.

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If the 529 account was for your son, isn't the purpose of it to pay for his college?

Muy said:

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People who get things for free tend to expect things for free and are the first to cause problems because they don't appreciate what they were given.

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Agree. Everyone needs to have some skin in the game.

Also, before long this will be expected and then expanded. And once it is for everyone, we know where the money will come from.

I care more about not having them go through liberal indoctrination. In my experience, some of the best Ags come from this income strata, so there are worse things than incentivizing them to come here. That being said, principally, I'm not a fan of the policy.

aggie93 said:

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The Collective said:

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Well, it covers assets too. Going to get sunk by those 529 balances. Guess I won't get divorced.

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One of the things I resented the most was filling out my FAFSA for my son and seeing that my 529 I invested in to save for their college was being used against me. That's how the system works, it penalizes the responsible.

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Same here. I am a frugal person, have sacrificed vacations and fancy cars for the last 25 years and have come up to the point where I am financially very strong with no debt. But the system penalizes me for it! While the poor financial managers receive "need based" money from colleges, my kids got none because daddy managed his money well.

My daughter's "Student Aid Index" is too high, and none of it was any inheritance money or any freebies I received from anyone - all my own earning.

Teslag said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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Reading up on this more, the $100k is for income and assets.

So living off your investment income isn't going to work

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Do the assets count your home?

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From GPT on assets considered for FASFA:

Quote:

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Assets to Include:

• Cash, Savings, and Checking: All bank account balances.
• Investments: Real estate (rental property, second homes), trust funds, UGMA/UTMA accounts, money market funds, mutual funds, certificates of deposit (CDs), stocks, stock options, bonds, commodities, and other securities.
• College Savings: Qualified education benefits or education savings accounts (e.g., 529 plans, Coverdell savings accounts).
• Business/Farm Value: Net worth of businesses and/or investment farms, including those with fewer than 100 employees.
  

Assets to Exclude (Do Not Report):

• Primary Residence: The home you live in.
• Retirement Plans: 401(k) plans, pension funds, annuities, non-education IRAs, and Keogh plans.
• Life Insurance: The cash value of life insurance policies.
• Personal Items: Cars, furniture, and clothing.
• ABLE Accounts: Accounts for individuals with disabilities.

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So, don't include your retirement accounts or your primary residence. Do include your investment R/E, vacation homes, and the valuation of your privately held businesses.

Privately held business valuations are very conservative due to the discounts for lack of marketability and, sometimes, discounts for lack of control. I have performed valuations of privately held businesses for FASFA before. If you understand valuation well, it's not hard to do, but make sure you include a discount for lack of marketability, and, potentially, as discount for lack of control if you own the firm 50/50 with your spouse (in that your spouse needs 50% of the voting power of the company based on formation documents).

I am toying around with getting Claude to do these types of valuations for me at the touch of a button.

one safe place said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Collective said:

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Well, it covers assets too. Going to get sunk by those 529 balances. Guess I won't get divorced.

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One of the things I resented the most was filling out my FAFSA for my son and seeing that my 529 I invested in to save for their college was being used against me. That's how the system works, it penalizes the responsible.

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If the 529 account was for your son, isn't the purpose of it to pay for his college?

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So if he's responsible, and sacrificed for his son...his reward is having to spend his own money.

If he's not responsible, and didn't sacrifice for his kids....it gets paid for him through assistance.

Seems fair?

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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SociallyConditionedAg said:

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So, if you make $99,000, your tuition is $0. If you're at $101,000, it's $35k per year. I completely agree with OP, just lower it for everyone.

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Yes. It also encourages parents to divorce, to hide real income etc. Whenever the government makes something 'free' my bs radar goes off.

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It's based on a FAFSA, it would count incomes of both parents regardless of marital status.

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This is no longer true, starting last year. From FASFA: https://studentaid.gov/apply-for-aid/fafsa/filling-out/parent-info

shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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The soft racism of liberal Democrats is disgusting.

Vessel said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Vessel said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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"Disparate impact is bad when it hurts minorities and it's good when it helps minorities and hurts white people."

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But if white people make less than 100k, they too would get in for free, just like the minorities.

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It's about proportionality.

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That's just demographics at that point though, isn't it?

Vepp said:

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Catag94 said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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Does that mean that any admission-qualified person can quit their job (thus having no income) and go to college for free?

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It should mean any adult student making under 100K. But, the system automatically ties that adult's parents' income into the mix.

We help our kids (one of whom is a current Zip) financially, but we teach them that the university is a place that offer adults education. We don't owe them that and if they want it, they need to invest in it.
It only makes sense that the adult enrolling is the income that matters.
Yet our society likes to treat adults in their 20s like children still.

Of course tuition is only a portion of the cost. There is house and nutrition. The university should consider that to be where family may assist.

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And parents like you treat this like the 90s where rent and food were negligible costs compared to today. Parents with the means should be paying for university for their children, instead of being selfish.

You are supposed to nurture the next generation by providing a full education, anything less is just you making excuses to keep more money for yourself instead of investing in the future.

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Ok. I bet my kids out produce those being more "Nurtured".
They know how to fish rather than simply sit at the table and wait to be served fish.
As I said, a current Zip (if you know what that's) with zero student loan debt (or any other), involved heavily in his outfit, president of another large well know student organization, and an on time graduation.
The youngest, 1 year ahead for graduation and also zero debt.
But, you do you!

AgGrad99 said:

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one safe place said:

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aggie93 said:

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The Collective said:

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Well, it covers assets too. Going to get sunk by those 529 balances. Guess I won't get divorced.

---

One of the things I resented the most was filling out my FAFSA for my son and seeing that my 529 I invested in to save for their college was being used against me. That's how the system works, it penalizes the responsible.

---

If the 529 account was for your son, isn't the purpose of it to pay for his college?

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So if he's responsible, and sacrificed for his son...his reward is having to spend his own money.

If he's not responsible, and didn't sacrifice for his kids....it gets paid for him through assistance.

Seems fair?

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No, I don't favor any giveaway program funded by others. I am ok with loans being available to anyone but should be subject to garnishment of wages and liens on assets to be sure they are repaid.

JB!98 said:

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Damn, I guess I will drop the bomb on my wife that we are getting a divorce. Stinks, because I am kind of fond of the old gal, but free tuition is free tuition! I wonder if that would work?

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Just do what any good Dem would do:

1) Find a foreign Chinese student of the opposite gender of your child.
2) Get your Chinese student to agree to pay for a 2 bedroom apartment for your child until they both graduate where they will live together as roommates.
3) Get your child to marry the Chinese student, which will give the Chinese person residency.
4) Your child can divorce after they graduate.


Now, the Chinese student gets to stay in the US, the only income that is relevant to FASFA for your child is the income of your child and their spouse, and your child gets a free place to live while they are in college.

Everybody in your family wins, and the United States loses.

If you look at this and say: "that's really unfair to all the taxpaying citizens in the US," you probably shouldn't do what I posted above, because you are not a Democrat, and may have trouble sleeping. Or, if you do identify as a Democrat, and you think that this might impact your conscious, you are just living in denial of your true self. I recommend WWII documentaries to cure that.

Vessel said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Vessel said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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"Disparate impact is bad when it hurts minorities and it's good when it helps minorities and hurts white people."

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But if white people make less than 100k, they too would get in for free, just like the minorities.

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It's about proportionality.

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SCOTUS said we don't get to consider proportionality anymore. If we can do that across the board, that would make us a better country.

infinity ag said:

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Isn't this "socialism"?

I was expecting all the hard core capitalists here to be up in arms shouting this plan down.

Typically the way it works is capitalism for everyone else, socialism for oneself.

---

Virtually every response in this thread is negative about the program.

This is one of the reasons I stopped giving to the AFS, the money is going to programs like this instead of to merit. Everything is focused on means tested scholarships even though most outside scholarships are also means tested and you have a ton of government programs that are means tested. I realized I was paying all these taxes, then giving on top of that, and then tuition for my kids was artificially higher so that I could still pay for other kids tuition.

Have a friend who gave a scholarship to A&M just trying to be a good Ag as they were very successful. A&M always gave the scholarship as a means tested one. In well over a decade they only had 1 kid who was able to keep the scholarship for 4 years, all the rest lost it due to grades or failing out completely. It was very discouraging for them. They had them change the requirements but it still never went to the type of kids they wanted it to. They tried to make A&M give them a refund but they refused. So dumb because if A&M just gave it to kids that were merit oriented and middle class like they wanted they likely would have given more scholarships but instead they stopped giving entirely to A&M.

BusterAg said:

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Vessel said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Vessel said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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"Disparate impact is bad when it hurts minorities and it's good when it helps minorities and hurts white people."

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But if white people make less than 100k, they too would get in for free, just like the minorities.

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It's about proportionality.

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SCOTUS said we don't get to consider proportionality anymore. If we can do that across the board, that would make us a better country.

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That would be great, but for some reason I'm having to explain basic proportionality concepts to the people I was responding to.

Either they don't understand that, or they're for disparate impact law when it helps minorities and against it when it hurts them.

The Collective said:

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By the way, I ran some quick math on the expected family contribution for a family of 4 with one kid attending college making 95k/year with no assets. The parent contribution is $26k. Yet, A&M will cover tuition for this individual.

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that is one screwed up calculation if I'm interpreting that correct. No way a family of 4 making $99k has 26k after taxes available for college.

BusterAg said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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some of you are not happy that because this helps out poorer families, that racial-minority families might be helped out in greater proportion than white families?

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Well, luckily for us SCOTUS killed disparate impact when it comes to race-based things, so this issue is supposed to be dead.

And, I like it that way.

But, it is pretty plain to see that this will favor minorities. But it will also favor poor white people just as much. In that case, this policy is color blind, in that it is a simple formula with no individual discretion, and treats all races the same.

But, I don't see anywhere on this page where anyone has made a claim about racial stuff until this specific post.

Why does everything have to be about race when it comes to these arguments?

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Because that poster is a clown

aggie93 said:

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infinity ag said:

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Isn't this "socialism"?

I was expecting all the hard core capitalists here to be up in arms shouting this plan down.

Typically the way it works is capitalism for everyone else, socialism for oneself.

---

Virtually every response in this thread is negative about the program.

This is one of the reasons I stopped giving to the AFS, the money is going to programs like this instead of to merit. Everything is focused on means tested scholarships even though most outside scholarships are also means tested and you have a ton of government programs that are means tested. I realized I was paying all these taxes, then giving on top of that, and then tuition for my kids was artificially higher so that I could still pay for other kids tuition.

Have a friend who gave a scholarship to A&M just trying to be a good Ag as they were very successful. A&M always gave the scholarship as a means tested one. In well over a decade they only had 1 kid who was able to keep the scholarship for 4 years, all the rest lost it due to grades or failing out completely. It was very discouraging for them. They had them change the requirements but it still never went to the type of kids they wanted it to. They tried to make A&M give them a refund but they refused. So dumb because if A&M just gave it to kids that were merit oriented and middle class like they wanted they likely would have given more scholarships but instead they stopped giving entirely to A&M.

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Yeah, I remember a few years back some rep from one of those A&M entities came on here crowing about how great it is to award scholarships based on means, and why people should embrace raising tuition on others to fund it

Yeah, that one went over real well

Next time, I get a donation call from A&M…

I'll let them know since we are over $100K income, it'll be necessary to hold back donations and save for my own kids as it's unknown how much tuition will be raised to fund this new initiative.

As long as the grade based admission still drives the selection and not some "feels" about the poor kid...

A&M billing has two tuition charges. One rate is set by the state of Texas, and the other is what Texas A&M charges. EVERY student is paying into this, and this money is set aside for "Scholarships."

• State-rate Tuition: 20% of your bill is set aside to award grants and scholarships
• TAMU-rate Tuition: 15% of your bill is set aside to award grants and scholarships

So technically, every student is funding this, and this new policy primarily benefits first-generation students. The thing is, TAMU has no desire to increase its merit-based funding because it has so many families willing to pay the full freight of the costs and do not care about retaining top-end talent in Texas.