Political fallout and arguments regarding the US-Israeli action against Iran 022824

319,358 Views | 3654 Replies | Last: 4 hrs ago by GAC06
FWTXAg
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Stressboy said:

FWTXAg said:

BQ78 said:

Save the world, so Democrats can finish the country off starting in January. I agree with your point but hate the consequences.


Whatever we are calling this useless action in Iran that is definitely not a war, is not anywhere close to saving the world lmao




Destroying the manufacturing base of the world's number one provider of missiles and drones to terrorist organizations and evil regimes is anything but useless.




We're doing it for money for political donors.

Has every military conflict the last 50 years not shown us that? Our Government (or any) doesn't do things for logical or valiant reasons. They do them for money.
bigtruckguy3500
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FWTXAg said:

Stressboy said:

FWTXAg said:

BQ78 said:

Save the world, so Democrats can finish the country off starting in January. I agree with your point but hate the consequences.


Whatever we are calling this useless action in Iran that is definitely not a war, is not anywhere close to saving the world lmao




Destroying the manufacturing base of the world's number one provider of missiles and drones to terrorist organizations and evil regimes is anything but useless.




We're doing it for money for political donors.

Has every military conflict the last 50 years not shown us that? Our Government (or any) doesn't do things for logical or valiant reasons. They do them for money.


Yeah, we aren't a democracy, or a constitutional Republic. We are an oligarchy.

Stressboy
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FWTXAg said:

Stressboy said:

FWTXAg said:

BQ78 said:

Save the world, so Democrats can finish the country off starting in January. I agree with your point but hate the consequences.


Whatever we are calling this useless action in Iran that is definitely not a war, is not anywhere close to saving the world lmao




Destroying the manufacturing base of the world's number one provider of missiles and drones to terrorist organizations and evil regimes is anything but useless.




We're doing it for money for political donors.

Has every military conflict the last 50 years not shown us that? Our Government (or any) doesn't do things for logical or valiant reasons. They do them for money.


Real Geopolitics are not about cronyism. The invasion of Iraq after 911 was about keeping al-qaeda from doing what Iran is trying to do now. Hold the world's oil supply hostage. Did cronyism get involved and did the idiots in bush's cabinet believe they could spread democracy? Yes. Still does not change the fact that that war was not started to line people's pockets, but to keep the oil flowing (despite the wmd bs.) it was about us getting a huge military presence in the ME to guard supplies. How did I know this to be true? The Japanese deployed their first troops out of their country since WWII into a base near ME oil fields at that time.

Of course , then shale oil happened and we didn't really need their oil but the rest of the world does and we are not yet ready to let the world fall into total chaos.

Also those above who said an FPV video of a GI getting killed is going to shake us up is very short sighted. The real threat is the cartels getting Iranian, Russian, or Ukrainian drones and using them on our passenger planes as they taxi down the runway.

Iran is the biggest supplier of these weapons to evil groups and needs to be taken out now. Getting hold of their uranium and putting a permanent military presence to guard the strait are huge needs as well.

Will china or Russia still try to get drone weapons into the hands of these people, yes but maybe this action will slow down the supply chain while we come up with real deterrents to drones.

2nd example to show your theory wrong, the Ukraine war was started by Russia because of demographic pressure and the inability to guard its huge flat borders. The war from Russia's perspective had nothing to do with cronyism or fraud, or Ukrainian nazis but Putin's understanding of the reality of Russia's indefensible position. He gambled and thankfully has lost so far.

I think we have destroyed Irans military Manufacturing base for the most part, but we need to achieve the other two objectives to make sure they can no longer be a threat.

Will it have a cost. Yes.
nai06
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Stressboy said:

Gordo14 said:

Stressboy said:

Gordo14 said:

MemphisAg1 said:

I'm embarrassed by all the handwringing I see. For crying out loud, we're in a military conflict with a dangerous foe that has been actively targeting Americans for decades and trying to get a nuclear bomb. Their crazy response to this military engagement -- attacking many other countries who aren't involved -- and their economic centers at that -- just shows how deranged they are.

We don't have to invade Iran. We just have to militarily destroy their ability to harm us and others. They are fighting back, with limited success. No surprise, it's a war. Just need to sack up, carry on, and get the job done.

Yeah, this won't be good for R's in the midterms if gas price is high and inflation takes off, but some things are more important than winning an election. This is one of them.


As long as they control the Strait of Hormuz, they arguably have won the war (as a regime, not individuals). We will not be able to open the Strait with air power alone. It's likely too dangerous to send our Navy in the Strait of Hormuz without controlling at least the islands on the north side of the strait. Invading the islands will be bloody and a disaster because it's well within FPV drone range. As it stands now, I think the progression is likely inevitable and a bigger disaster. I think it's all a pretty predictable result of a poorly planned strategy.

It's widely been known that Iran's plan for regime security was to close the strait of Hormuz. But even they were not 100% sure if they had the capability to do so. Not only have we proven that they can shut it down and hold the whole world hostage, we've proven we don't have a good option to reopen it. Do I think we could if we committed everything we had to it - absolutely. But the cost will be immense. And even if we strike some kind of deal that Iran isn't incentivized to make to reopen the strait, the whole world now knows the situation is way more fragile and the genie can't be put back in the bottle. Iran has all the leverage and the only way to unwind that leverage is US boots on the ground - which may or may not work (well?) in the era of drone warfare. If we escalate further more and more key infrastructure across the Middle East will be smashed to pieces.

Again, I want to emphasize, this was all very predictable and the most likely outcome of directly threatening Iran's regime. So it's hard to be optimistic. Winning at this point is American blood to return to February 27th.


So your answer is to let them keep controlling the most important energy route in the world because we may get bloodied.

What was that about cotton and strategy?




That's not my answer. My comment is that this was the logical outcome of our actions. That we have no good options. Maybe we should have considered this before our adventurism on February 28th. I suspect that our military correctly identified this as a risk of our action, but the action was taken nonetheless.

And now we have a series of awful options. And we still have a healthy amount of blind optimism. I'm just projecting the direction of things and wondering if we actually had a coherent strategy.



We don't have a list of awful options. We have a cost that might have to be paid to destroy a huge threat.

If we don't end the threat to the strait and end their manufacturing of drones and missiles then we will come to pay a much higher price. I am hoping those in charge understand the larger risks beyond the nukes and stake a stand. That's why I'm glad that the naysayers on this thread are not in charge.


And who is going to pay the cost? Certainly not you or I.


I'm not okay with sending more young men to die in a desert far away from home. We have left Iran with no options other that to fight to the death. They know that if they give up or capitulate the us will come in and raid their country of oil and take over the strait. All so some rich *******s can make even more money.

Hard pass.
Reno Hightower
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The political fallout of this exercise will likely be an electoral disaster in November for the R's. Better clean this up QUICK.
nortex97
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NPR tried to run a piece I guess about how Iranians oppose this war.
Quote:

It had to be a revelation to this NPR team, who opened with one regime supporter, to then find nothing but support for the US-Israeli action - admitting that 'the vast majority of Iranians did not share that first man's view.' Even more astonishing, I'm sure, were the expressed fears from those they interviewed that the US would leave the regime in place.

Fake news clowns. The propaganda press alternative-reality/narrative view of the war is somewhat breathtaking to see when I check in on it. Roger Kimball is correct:
Quote:

The online narrativeI hesitate to call it "reality"takes place not just online but in the propaganda press more generally. The dominant theme here is excited angst and handwringing, typified by a recent cover story in The Economist, "Advantage Iran." Yes, really. "A month of bombing Iran has achieved nothing. . . . For now, at least, the advantage lies with the Islamic Republic."
The painful truth is that this is essentially the same narrative being peddled by the Iranian regime itself. See, for example, the silly Lego videos the regime has been releasing. They are supposed to expose the U.S.-led anti-regime coalition to ridicule. The effect is a self-deconstructing farce. What genius, I wonder, came up with that embarrassing gambit?

Quote:

Reaching into the same lexicon that produced "quagmire," the legacy media warns about this conflict becoming an "endless war" la Iraq or Afghanistan. We're only four weeks into this campaign; almost all of Iran's leadership has been killed, its navy sunk, its air force destroyed, and its offensive capabilities largely neutralized. But the media remembers the neocons. It likes President Trump even less than it liked them, so they cast Trump in the role they both know and love to hate. The problem is, Trump is not a neocon. He did not start a war with Iran. He is ending the war against the West that Iran's mullahs started in 1979. This internet commentator is right: "The President is no neo-con; he's a calculating strategist focused on results, not rhetoric. Once American objectives are secured, he'll let the Middle East resolve itself on its own terms."

Meanwhile, as the legacy media crows that President Trump is "backtracking," "blinking," and so on because those crafty Iranians reminded him that a lot of oil moves through the Strait of Hormuzwhy hadn't he thought of that?the U.S. and Israel continue their strikes against Iranian infrastructure and regime personnel. That's the reality side of the disjunction Murtazashvili discerned. Last week, President Trump issued an ultimatum.

Open the Strait of Hormuz within 48 hours, or we will destroy your energy infrastructure. He then decided to extend the deadline. Then he extended it again. But that wasn't blinking. It was smiling. The U.S. and Israel continued to destroy military targets and eliminate key government personnel and scientists. Trump temporarily exempted Iranian Parliament Speaker Mohammad-Bagher Ghalibaf and Foreign Minister Abbas Araghchi from the coalition's kill list. Weakness? Blinking? Backtracking? I think it is searching.

Correct. And Ghalibaf should absolutely be targeted now.
BMX Bandit
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Yukon Cornelius
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This is insanely revisionist history to cope and justify something that shouldn't have happened. Alqeda was going to hold Iraq's oil hostage from Afghanistan because of 911 so we had to invade and kill a million Iraqis? You're wrong. Your position is wrong and you're coming up with absolute nonsense to justify it.

And ya when wives start getting sent Hd video of their husbands last minute of life with their body parts laying around them gasping for air it's going to mess a lot of people up. We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.
MemphisAg1
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Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.

Eliminatus
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MemphisAg1 said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.



Some of yall have absolutely lost the plot completely. Blessing in disguise to have our people, our sons and daughters, getting picked off by flying IEDs? And the rest of us are supposed to reason with this "logic"?

Nah. I think I am done here.
MemphisAg1
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Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.



Some of yall have absolutely lost the plot completely. Blessing in disguise to have our people, our sons and daughters, getting picked off by flying IEDs? And the rest of us are supposed to reason with this "logic"?

Nah. I think I am done here.

Your words, not mine. But you know that and would rather spin it for maximum drama.

The point remains it can be beneficial to be forced to deal with a shortcoming while it has less impact to you than waiting until it completely overwhelms you. Run right at your challenges, not away from them.
ReloadAg
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I voted for Trump 3 times and am beyond pissed about this war. It did not need to happen and we will end up far weaker as a result. I pray he has enough sense not to send in ground troops.

Sorry, I hate to say this, but I'm out. The Republicans and Trump deserve every ounce of electoral pain coming their way in November. F them all.
Yukon Cornelius
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So it's a blessing young boys will be torn apart and videoed and those videos sent to their families? Y'all have lost the plot.
Eliminatus
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MemphisAg1 said:

Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.



Some of yall have absolutely lost the plot completely. Blessing in disguise to have our people, our sons and daughters, getting picked off by flying IEDs? And the rest of us are supposed to reason with this "logic"?

Nah. I think I am done here.

Your words, not mine. But you know that and would rather spin it for maximum drama.

The point remains it can be beneficial to be forced to deal with a shortcoming while it has less impact to you than waiting until it completely overwhelms you. Run right at your challenges, not away from them.


I'm sorry. You are correct. Let me use your words.

"We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks."

It is worded in a more sanitized and corporate way. Best not to offend by saying the reality out loud. "Some losses" is definitely better than "getting picked off". I am taking notes btw. So I don't upset others in the future.

And run right at your challenges? WTF kind of self empowering seminar do you think Iran is going to be? We are discussing suicide drones and similar one way attack drones. There is no real learning curve for the average grunt. You don't run at them. You simply survive them and hope tech catches up with ways to deal with them. The hard lessons have already been learned in Ukraine. We can (and should have been practicing them already) learn them ourselves in training. Not on the spot. You don't sacrifice PVTs Smith and Rodriguez to go through the steps someone already has.

MemphisAg1
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Yukon Cornelius said:

So it's a blessing young boys will be torn apart and videoed and those videos sent to their families? Y'all have lost the plot.

Again, your words, not mine. And you know that.
Yukon Cornelius
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Maybe you should educate yourself on drone warfare then. Because that is 100% what happens. So some losses as you say what they are in reality is young Americans videoed as another drone hits them. Body parts flying. Mangled mess gasping for air as they die an agonizing death. Then that video gets blasted on social media and sent to the family.

You have no idea what you're talking about if your response "tHoSE are YOuR WoRdS hehe". This is reality of drone warfare not some hypothetical. We have the unfortunate fact of this reality already playing out in the world. We don't have to FA to FO as y'all like to say
Haleyscomet50
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ReloadAg said:

I voted for Trump 3 times and am beyond pissed about this war. It did not need to happen and we will end up far weaker as a result. I pray he has enough sense not to send in ground troops.

Sorry, I hate to say this, but I'm out. The Republicans and Trump deserve every ounce of electoral pain coming their way in November. F them all.

They are floating the idea of ground troops so when it happens we won't be surprised. Everyone knew it was the only way to get things done. I'm sure Trump was told the initial strike would cause the uprising and regime change. That's what Trump said but it didn't happen. Seems like we have got a lot of bad intelligence so far. Makes you wonder.

Massacred in the mid terms and they will blame Tucker book mark it.
MemphisAg1
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Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.



Some of yall have absolutely lost the plot completely. Blessing in disguise to have our people, our sons and daughters, getting picked off by flying IEDs? And the rest of us are supposed to reason with this "logic"?

Nah. I think I am done here.

Your words, not mine. But you know that and would rather spin it for maximum drama.

The point remains it can be beneficial to be forced to deal with a shortcoming while it has less impact to you than waiting until it completely overwhelms you. Run right at your challenges, not away from them.


I'm sorry. You are correct. Let me use your words.

"We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks."

It is worded in a more sanitized and corporate way. Best not to offend by saying the reality out loud. "Some losses" is definitely better than "getting picked off". I am taking notes btw. So I don't upset others in the future.

And run right at your challenges? WTF kind of self empowering seminar do you think Iran is going to be? We are discussing suicide drones and similar one way attack drones. There is no real learning curve for the average grunt. You don't run at them. You simply survive them and hope tech catches up with ways to deal with them. The hard lessons have already been learned in Ukraine. We can (and should have been practicing them already) learn them ourselves in training. Not on the spot. You don't sacrifice PVTs Smith and Rodriguez to go through the steps someone already has.

We are looking at this thru different lenses. I still remember vividly when we lost 3,000 civilians in NY when we were attacked out of the blue by terrorists. Caught completely off guard, and it resulted in the deaths of many non-combatants including women and children. I recall wishing those terrorist animals had the courage instead to take on our military directly. I certainly don't wish harm upon them either, but I would rather our honorable service men and women face our enemies than untrained, hapless civilians. Because our military is badass -- and even though not invincible -- can absolutely whip the **** out of our enemies.

So here we are, real time. Drones incoming. We need to figure out how to deal with this now and in the weeks ahead. And we will. And yes, it is still a blessing that we are learning this on the battlefield instead of the streets of Houston or in Kyle Field. God speed and protection for our troops, but go get the job done.
MemphisAg1
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Yukon Cornelius said:

Maybe you should educate yourself on drone warfare then. Because that is 100% what happens. So some losses as you say what they are in reality is young Americans videoed as another drone hits them. Body parts flying. Mangled mess gasping for air as they die an agonizing death. Then that video gets blasted on social media and sent to the family.

You have no idea what you're talking about if your response "tHoSE are YOuR WoRdS hehe". This is reality of drone warfare not some hypothetical. We have the unfortunate fact of this reality already playing out in the world. We don't have to FA to FO as y'all like to say

You've been dramatizing this to the max degree for some time now, but it hasn't approached anything resembling your doomsday scenario. There will surely be losses, regrettably, but this is a very different engagement than the one you keep advertising.
Yukon Cornelius
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I haven't dramatized anything. Do you even understand how drones work? In what way has my description been inaccurate? Have you seen the uncensored videos of Ukraine? If anything my description is underselling what is happening.

Guys missing half their body, groping for their rifle so the can shoot themselves.

Guys bleeding out for hours and hours.

Guys trying to stuff their guts back in.

Guys walking around with no faces.

All captured with HD cameras. I'm telling you the American population is not ready for that kind of war over Iran.
Eliminatus
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MemphisAg1 said:

Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Eliminatus said:

MemphisAg1 said:

Yukon Cornelius said:

We aren't prepared mentally for the absolute horror that is drone warfare.

You keep saying that as if we're going to carbon-copy the situation on the ground in the Russia/Ukraine war and have the same results.

This is vastly different. We don't have hundreds of thousands of troops trying to take and hold territory. We don't need that to accomplish our mission of sharply reducing Iran's ability to hurt us and others.

Might need some special ops, or Marines, on special temporary missions to support the overall objective, but we're not going to be in trenches in Iran for 4+ years. Ain't happening.

We are making rapid progress on destroying their military infrastructure. Still need to find a solution that makes Persian Gulf shipping manageable, but we're not in that by ourselves. Other nations need that oil -- we do not. They will help stand up solutions. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, just good enough that shipping can resume.

We will surely see more drone attacks and incur some losses, no doubt. This is actually a blessing in disguise because we need to get better at defending against those attacks. But I would rather our military deal with it straight on then to have been even more surprised a few years from now with an overwhelming disadvantage. Sometimes being forced to confront something is the first step of figuring out how to address it.



Some of yall have absolutely lost the plot completely. Blessing in disguise to have our people, our sons and daughters, getting picked off by flying IEDs? And the rest of us are supposed to reason with this "logic"?

Nah. I think I am done here.

Your words, not mine. But you know that and would rather spin it for maximum drama.

The point remains it can be beneficial to be forced to deal with a shortcoming while it has less impact to you than waiting until it completely overwhelms you. Run right at your challenges, not away from them.




We are looking at this thru different lenses. I still remember vividly when we lost 3,000 civilians in NY when we were attacked out of the blue by terrorists. Caught completely off guard, and it resulted in the deaths of many non-combatants including women and children. I recall wishing those terrorist animals had the courage instead to take on our military directly. I certainly don't wish harm upon them either, but I would rather our honorable service men and women face our enemies than untrained, hapless civilians. Because our military is badass -- and even though not invincible -- can absolutely whip the **** out of our enemies.

So here we are, real time. Drones incoming. We need to figure out how to deal with this now and in the weeks ahead. And we will. And yes, it is still a blessing that we are learning this on the battlefield instead of the streets of Houston or in Kyle Field. God speed and protection for our troops, but go get the job done.


I…I don't know how to respond to this. Kinda speechless at the total inanity of this statement. Different lenses? More like different realities tbh. You are off in your own for sure. I have no idea how you connected 9/11 into this and I stopped trying to comprehend anything else after that.
Yukon Cornelius
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Here's the longterm situation. With illegal voting and tbe 2020 census if we lose midterms republicans may never win the presidency again. And this war is going to cost the republicans the midterms. Save act isn't passed. Definitely won't get passed next year. Everything will be for naught over this war. Where our own DNI under oath said they weren't rebuilding nuclear weapons. It's Iraq 2.0 but somehow even worse.
Bayou City
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Take yalls low budget chest puffing and name calling somewhere else and stop clutter the thread with worthless banter between each other.

Hope staff comes and either cleans this up or starts giving some of yall a time out to breath.
Bayou City
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And What does That Have to do with the topic of this thread? NOTHING

PLEASE STOP.
Yukon Cornelius
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The political fallout? I'm describing it.
5Amp
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Western Hemisphere (primarily the US, Canada, Mexico, and Latin America) would suffer moderate but noticeable economic pain from a prolonged closure of the Strait of Hormuz, though far less severely than Asia or Europe. The region is a net energy exporter with strong domestic production, so it faces indirect effects through global oil price spikes rather than direct supply shortages.
Scale of the Disruption
The strait normally carries ~20 million barrels per day (b/d) of crude oil and petroleum products roughly 20% of global petroleum liquids consumption and ~25% of seaborne oil trade. It also handles a significant share of LNG (~19-20%).
Most (~80-84%) of this flow goes to Asia (China, India, Japan, South Korea). The US imported only ~0.5 million b/d from Persian Gulf sources in recent years about 2% of its total petroleum liquids consumption and a tiny fraction of its imports (which are dominated by Canada and Mexico).
In the ongoing 2026 crisis, traffic has dropped dramatically (to a trickle in many reports), triggering the largest supply shock in history per the IEA, with Gulf output cuts of ~10 million b/d and LNG flows down ~20%.

Winners Within the Region:
US, Canada, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia: As net or growing exporters, higher prices boost revenues, drilling activity, and export earnings. Canada is exploring ways to ramp up exports to Asia/Europe. US shale and SPR releases (US contributed 172 million barrels in the recent 400-million-barrel IEA-coordinated draw) add flexibility.
Broader Effects: Shipping/insurance costs rise; some supply chain disruptions for petrochemicals, medicines, or goods with energy inputs. Latin America varies exporters gain, importers feel more pain.
Mitigating Factors for the Americas
Domestic Production: The US is a top global producer; Western Hemisphere supply (US, Canada, Brazil, Guyana, etc.) has grown significantly, reducing vulnerability.
Strategic Reserves: IEA members (including US, Canada) have released record volumes; US SPR drawdowns provide a temporary bridge (though physical limits and shipping times apply).
Alternatives: Limited Gulf bypass pipelines (Saudi East-West, UAE to Fujairah) help somewhat (~a few million b/d max combined), but not enough for full replacement. Rerouting and increased Western Hemisphere output fill gaps over time.
Resilience: Modern economies are less oil-dependent per GDP unit than in the 1970s. Short closures cause volatility; prolonged ones (months) amplify inflation/recession risks but are unlikely to cause 1970s-style lines due to market adaptations.
In summary, expect higher fuel and goods prices, some inflationary pressure, and modest growth drag noticeable for consumers and energy-intensive industries, but not catastrophic. Oil-exporting parts of the region could even see net benefits. Asia bears the brunt (shortages, much higher welfare losses). Outcomes depend heavily on duration: weeks = manageable volatility; months+ = escalating pain until flows resume or alternatives scale.
The situation remains fluid with military efforts to reopen the strait and ongoing reserve releases. For the most current localized effects (e.g., gas prices in Houston), check EIA or local fuel reports.

Grok


Trump is not going to send in troops.
Queso1
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AG
But we kilt dem mooslims. Right?

Trump was pressured into this war. I'm not sure if he was blackmailed into it or what, but he was pressured. This was not anything that was necessary.
Bayou City
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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE STOP YOU 2
ReloadAg
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And sadly I don't think our leadership has learned much from the drone warfare going on in Ukraine, as evidenced by how we don't take more measures to protect our vulnerable aircraft parked on the ground.
Yukon Cornelius
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I think the reality we fundamentally cannot protect those assets. And forward troop positions are even more vulnerable. I don't think invasions will really work in the future as is being demonstrated in Ukraine.

With this war currently being so debated it's hard to imagine much support will continue after a ground invasion happens and our troops get droned. Judging by the timing of it it's perfect for the Dems in November. I can't imagine a bigger political blunder.
Eliminatus
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ReloadAg said:

I voted for Trump 3 times and am beyond pissed about this war. It did not need to happen and we will end up far weaker as a result. I pray he has enough sense not to send in ground troops.

Sorry, I hate to say this, but I'm out. The Republicans and Trump deserve every ounce of electoral pain coming their way in November. F them all.


There is ONE justification I can see being truly valid for this war. And that is a long term chess move and removing a thorn before a global hot war with China.

Sadly, I just don't truly believe that to be true in my heart of hearts. I don't fully buy in to the "Israel made us do it" either. I'll give us that much of a benefit of a doubt. So just left with good ole American ego and hubris really I guess with how this is turning out so far.

Lot of people hate us on this globe. We don't need to go to war with all of them. Even if they stir up terrorists. We tried that. For two generations. And lost.

We didn't need this and it still has a better chance of getting worse before it gets better IMHO. I am not naive enough to think we can just guarantee to not be in a war ever, but we didn't need to be in this one, now.
bobbranco
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Are troops on the ground?
Queso1
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bobbranco said:

Are troops on the ground?



This is where we are? 2 weeks ago it was "there will be no troops on the ground".
flown-the-coop
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Queso1 said:

bobbranco said:

Are troops on the ground?



This is where we are? 2 weeks ago it was "there will be no troops on the ground".

Can you define what "troops" on the ground means to you?

Until some of the UN peacekeepers here start talking in real terms, the "Trump has no plans" whilst simultaneously drawing up plans for the Iran Was Memorial in DC and helping Obama draft another global apology tour, how about you sit tight and let an adult like Trump and his team of warriors handle this.
bobbranco
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Queso1 said:

bobbranco said:

Are troops on the ground?



This is where we are? 2 weeks ago it was "there will be no troops on the ground".

No troops on the ground...
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