The USG will need to pay interest as well.

Congress should just vote to:
1. Enshrine the tariffs into law. They have been effective revenue generators without causing an undue burden on citizens.
2. Give foreign entities a choice of higher tariffs going forward in perpetuity if they want to be reimbursed, or sustain the same level if they allow us to keep what we've previously collected.

We need to change our tariff payment and collections to where the overseas EXPORTER of record pays the tariffs, not the importer of record. That would truly make the foreign goods more expensive and hurt the foreign companies directly. The way the system is implemented now raising tariffs does not truly have the intended affect, it only really works if the foreign manufacturer is importing to themselves in the US to a foreign owned dealership or distributorship.

Jarrin Jay said:

---

We need to change our tariff payment and collections to where the overseas EXPORTER of record pays the tariffs, not the importer of record. That would truly make the foreign goods more expensive and hurt the foreign companies directly. The way the system is implemented now raising tariffs does not truly have the intended affect, it only really works if the foreign manufacturer is importing to themselves in the US to a foreign owned dealership or distributorship.

---

As with the purchase price, shipping and the like, you negotiate with the seller / shipper on who pays the freights, fees and duties.

The importer pays the tariff as that is the simplest, most direct way to implement the tariff. Who bears the cost burden is separate.

Stressboy said:

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Scruffy said:

---

As I said on the previous thread where FedEx was suing,

My wife had ordered some gloves from a UK store.
They shipped and eventually we received them... we thought the tariff was included in the price.

Several weeks late we got a bill from FedEx saying they had paid the extra tariff and we owed them the cost of the tariff plus the extra processing free for them to pay it for us.
We were never told the package was waiting tariff fees, we were never given the option to pay them.

So the question becomes, who really paid the tariff?
Yes FedEx paid it initially, but they then charged us and tacked on extra.
So do they(FedEx) get a refund and get to keep the extra fee they forced us to pay, or does the refund come to us?

---

Not a lawyer so what follows seems like common sense.

Since you have a documented that they paid the tariff for you and you paid them the extra tariff costs then they should owe you the money back. Though the extra processing fee will probably be lost.

If they say they owe you nothing, consult a lawyer.

---

Right.... so maybe they give us back the extra $8, but we are still out the $24 in fees?

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

Scruffy said:

---

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

---

And lawyers.

A lawyer would demand a retainer of $4,000.

It's a feature not a bug...

Scruffy said:

---

Stressboy said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

As I said on the previous thread where FedEx was suing,

My wife had ordered some gloves from a UK store.
They shipped and eventually we received them... we thought the tariff was included in the price.

Several weeks late we got a bill from FedEx saying they had paid the extra tariff and we owed them the cost of the tariff plus the extra processing free for them to pay it for us.
We were never told the package was waiting tariff fees, we were never given the option to pay them.

So the question becomes, who really paid the tariff?
Yes FedEx paid it initially, but they then charged us and tacked on extra.
So do they(FedEx) get a refund and get to keep the extra fee they forced us to pay, or does the refund come to us?

---

Not a lawyer so what follows seems like common sense.

Since you have a documented that they paid the tariff for you and you paid them the extra tariff costs then they should owe you the money back. Though the extra processing fee will probably be lost.

If they say they owe you nothing, consult a lawyer.

---

Right.... so maybe they give us back the extra $8, but we are still out the $24 in fees?

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

---

No way. The folks like Lutnick's son and the financial wizards that advised the importers to sale their refund claims and then those that bought them for pennies on the dollar are the winners.

Importers get their quick cash and the refund claim gamblers may get paid something 6 to 7 years from now. Everyone wins!

Big mess for an amount of money that is not even rounding error for the US government.

It's time to forego the tariff nonsense except where they are truly reciprocal and cut spending. [/Wishing thinking fantastical thought that will never happen]

Ok, so whoever paid the tariff will get a refund. is that the entity that actually wrote a check to the goverment when the product crossed the border?

What about the business or consumer that paid the higher price after it entered the country and the party after that, and the party after that?

Because in the end, the price landed on consumers and i doubt we will get a refund. just the party that crossed the border and now their higher profits will be subsidized by the government.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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must begin paying out more than $130 billion in tariff refunds to US businesses

---

So businesses charge more to compensate for tariffs. Then get refunded. Good day for big business!

---

Ultimately, the end users that bought those products paid the tariffs. So,there will be suits by those people to get the refunds.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

So who actually paid the cost in the end, or is this just a windfall for the importer that will get a big rebate for costs they have already passed along as much as they are able?

---

Obviously, we're waking up the fact that the American consumers end up paying for the tariffs. That isn't news.

Whether or not an importer passes the tariff to his customers is his choice. If he makes a good choice, he stays in business. If not, his competitors do.

It's not the importers who I hold responsible, for whatever they decide to do, it's the billionaires who bought the congress to lower their income taxes. That's what the tariffs were supposed to replace. Cut the taxes for the top 1% and replace that revenue with tariffs (see BBB) that is spread out over all consumers. Yeah, they consume more, but they aren't complaining because they know how it works. They didn't do this for the standard consumer.

If the government is allowed to keep taxes they collect erroneously, you will find fewer and fewer taxpayers eager to pay taxes. They will delay, delay, delay, just to make sure they really owe, particularly if they don't get it back if they overpay. That would not be a good thing for the IRS or CBP, since it would make their jobs much harder. Everyone would delay paying.

Of course, the idea to impose the tariffs was illegal (honestly, by definition illegal). Whoever made that decision is the one to blame.

MemphisAg1 said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

---

So who actually paid the cost in the end, or is this just a windfall for the importer that will get a big rebate for costs they have already passed along as much as they are able?

---

The entity that is due the refund is the one who actually paid the tariff to the government.

Whether they explicitly passed it on to their customer and that customer is due a refund from them will depend on the commercial contract between those parties. In some cases I would bet it's clear that their customer is due a refund. In other cases, it won't be in the contract and will be subject to negotiation if the customer has commercial leverage to force the issue.

And I'd bet there will also be lawsuits for those cases where the parties don't agree.

A huge mess really.

---

In my industry, all the pricing adjustments upward were done with letters specifically citing the reason for the increase being tariffs. Based on our agreements there will be many who get money back who were not the importer of record but still impacted.

What has the government actually collected in tariffs so far? The cost to reimburse would probably be double that amount.

bobbranco said:

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Scruffy said:

---

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

---

And lawyers.

A lawyer would demand a retainer of $4,000.

It's a feature not a bug...

---

$4000!!?


Is this 1982??!?

mm98 said:

---

MemphisAg1 said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

So who actually paid the cost in the end, or is this just a windfall for the importer that will get a big rebate for costs they have already passed along as much as they are able?

---

The entity that is due the refund is the one who actually paid the tariff to the government.

Whether they explicitly passed it on to their customer and that customer is due a refund from them will depend on the commercial contract between those parties. In some cases I would bet it's clear that their customer is due a refund. In other cases, it won't be in the contract and will be subject to negotiation if the customer has commercial leverage to force the issue.

And I'd bet there will also be lawsuits for those cases where the parties don't agree.

A huge mess really.

---

In my industry, all the pricing adjustments upward were done with letters specifically citing the reason for the increase being tariffs. Based on our agreements there will be many who get money back who were not the importer of record but still impacted.

---

I suspect this is the major position of most of the companies who paid the tariffs. I suspect even the large customers of FedEx will get their money back. The small fry (like you and me) who paid a "service fee" in addition to the tariff can kiss that good-by. Use another shipper, next time if you don't like it, that's the free market.

The higher retail prices due to the tariffs are likely to stay, however, as the tariffs contribute to inflation, and inflation only goes one way. Prices go up, but rarely do they go down. Most companies just deal with a smaller volume until inflation catches up with their prices. They can do this at the retail level since there are alternatives on the shelf and they are likely not to lose market share from their customers.

Watermelon Man said:

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It's not the importers who I hold responsible, for whatever they decide to do, it's the billionaires who bought the congress to lower their income taxes. That's what the tariffs were supposed to replace. Cut the taxes for the top 1% and replace that revenue with tariffs (see BBB) that is spread out over all consumers. Yeah, they consume more, but they aren't complaining because they know how it works. They didn't do this for the standard consumer.

---

That is why I like tariffs and I'm not a billionaire. The takers - who you support - don't pay **** right now! They need skin in the game.

And it doesn't cut squat for the billionaires as it stands! There was never any deal.

BMX Bandit said:

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dvldog said:

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The SC should have addressed this in the first place. This is going to end up right back on their docket.

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There was nothing to address. The government said that people would get refunds if they lost it is part of the reason there was a stay on any injunction. The government said there would be no permanent harm.

---

The Government has said before and said in the hearing the other day in this case that "It is not our position that every single importer will get a refund. Our position is that you have to file a claim in this court."

I'm not saying the Supreme Court should have necessarily addressed the remedy/refunds or that this will necessarily end up back at the Supreme Court. I highly doubt the Supreme Court wants to have to get involved in that.

But the Government certainly intends to make it is as hard as they can for anyone to get a refund. And probably will be hoping they can eventually get the Supreme Court to say these lower courts can't issue nationwide relief on tariff refunds.

Logos Stick said:

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Watermelon Man said:

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It's not the importers who I hold responsible, for whatever they decide to do, it's the billionaires who bought the congress to lower their income taxes. That's what the tariffs were supposed to replace. Cut the taxes for the top 1% and replace that revenue with tariffs (see BBB) that is spread out over all consumers. Yeah, they consume more, but they aren't complaining because they know how it works. They didn't do this for the standard consumer.

---

That is why I like tariffs and I'm not a billionaire. The takers - who you support - don't pay **** right now! They need skin in the game.

And it doesn't cut squat for the billionaires as it stands! There was never any deal.

---

You seem to forget the only reason the billionaires have the money in the first place is that these human beings (you call them 'takers' to dehumanize them, don't deny that) are the ones who provide the billionaires with their money. They are the ones working for little or no pay, who find it hard to procure food and shelter.

Of course, with a "I got mine" attitude and total lack of compassion for other humans, I am not surprised that you like tariffs, or even the way they are being used. Cruelty is the point.

Just to be clear. I'm not saying that tariffs are good (or bad). I'm just saying that we're in this mess because Trump violated the law and did not listen to advisors who told him it was a bad idea. There are very good reasons the founding fathers didn't want a single person deciding on taxes. It not only contributes to corruption, but they were pretty adamant against any single American having that much power. They went through that with King George and wanted to make sure we did something different.

Im Gipper said:

---

bobbranco said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

---

And lawyers.

A lawyer would demand a retainer of $4,000.

It's a feature not a bug...

---

$4000!!?


Is this 1982??!?

---

2 hours of paperwork and 6 hours of research at the bar is not easy.

In the end, the Tariff "refund" will go to the lawyers. The judge clearly has a conflict of interest.

Okay, but when do we all get our $2,000 check from Trump?

Last I heard, that was still on the table.

Watermelon Man said:

---

MouthBQ98 said:

---

So who actually paid the cost in the end, or is this just a windfall for the importer that will get a big rebate for costs they have already passed along as much as they are able?

---

Obviously, we're waking up the fact that the American consumers end up paying for the tariffs. That isn't news.

Whether or not an importer passes the tariff to his customers is his choice. If he makes a good choice, he stays in business. If not, his competitors do.

It's not the importers who I hold responsible, for whatever they decide to do, it's the billionaires who bought the congress to lower their income taxes. That's what the tariffs were supposed to replace. Cut the taxes for the top 1% and replace that revenue with tariffs (see BBB) that is spread out over all consumers. Yeah, they consume more, but they aren't complaining because they know how it works. They didn't do this for the standard consumer.

If the government is allowed to keep taxes they collect erroneously, you will find fewer and fewer taxpayers eager to pay taxes. They will delay, delay, delay, just to make sure they really owe, particularly if they don't get it back if they overpay. That would not be a good thing for the IRS or CBP, since it would make their jobs much harder. Everyone would delay paying.

Of course, the idea to impose the tariffs was illegal (honestly, by definition illegal). Whoever made that decision is the one to blame.

---

Completely nonsensical gaslighting. The top 1% pay 40% of taxes. We have one of if not the most progressive tax system on the planet.

So, why are you blaming billionaires? The problem is Washington DC. They've spent us into oblivion and still refuse to cut spending. Thus, we get tariffs as a strategy to try and out revenue the spending. Which was always a failed strategy but when we decide we are not going to cut spending then there is not much else we can try, but to out gain it.

Your government is to blame. Not the rich who already carry most of the burden in this country to fund it. How in the world are there still people who have internet access still pushing this fake news talking point?

Aggie95 said:

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What has the government actually collected in tariffs so far? The cost to reimburse would probably be double that amount.

---

Roughly $300B where about $100B of that was ruled and qualified as refundable. Thus, as you can see, there is a lot of noise here with little real impact in the grand scheme of things.

Our annual deficit is ~$1.2T which tariffs were implemented to offset which was never going to happen and delusional by Trump to think it would. But, again, when everyone in DC mandates that we are not going to cut spending then you are left with practically no options to do anything about it.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

So who actually paid the cost in the end, or is this just a windfall for the importer that will get a big rebate for costs they have already passed along as much as they are able?

---

Not a chance. I'm CFO for an import company. Knowing this outcome was very likely, we invoiced tariffs separately. This also gave us a lot transparency with our customers (manufacturers here in the U.S.) which they appreciated.

That said, our phones have been ringing off the wall since the SCOTUS struck down the IEEPA and reciprocal tariffs: "Where's muh refund?"

They will get refunded when CBP returns the money to us. We'll be able to calculate their refunds (tedious but not difficult).

Also bear mind this ruling only covers IEEPA and reciprocal tariffs. The other Trump tariff increases remain in place.

SCOTUS kicked the can by not addressing the issue of refunds in their ruling. Then the Court of International Trade ruled this week that the refund process needs to start now.

Companies that simply jacked up prices to cover tariffs are going to have a far more difficult time refunding them to their customers. Their customers will be expecting them to roll back prices as well since tariffs were baked into their new pricing.

And FedEx is going to have a lot of fun calculating and refunding tariffs on air shipments.

YouBet said:

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Aggie95 said:

---

What has the government actually collected in tariffs so far? The cost to reimburse would probably be double that amount.

---

Roughly $300B where about $100B of that was ruled and qualified as refundable. Thus, as you can see, there is a lot of noise here with little real impact in the grand scheme of

---

doubledog said:

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The judge clearly has a conflict of interest.

---

Ok.

Do we as the consumer get a refund as well?

DonHenley said:

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Do we as the consumer get a refund as well?

---

Not if you voted for Trump.

You voted for it,

Likely just claim no refunds as government could have taken same amount using different route at same time so you are not entitled to any refunds. They likely under collected because they did not use this more blanketed route and used more narrowed approach with IEEPA tariffs.

flown-the-coop said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

Stressboy said:

---

Scruffy said:

---

As I said on the previous thread where FedEx was suing,

My wife had ordered some gloves from a UK store.
They shipped and eventually we received them... we thought the tariff was included in the price.

Several weeks late we got a bill from FedEx saying they had paid the extra tariff and we owed them the cost of the tariff plus the extra processing free for them to pay it for us.
We were never told the package was waiting tariff fees, we were never given the option to pay them.

So the question becomes, who really paid the tariff?
Yes FedEx paid it initially, but they then charged us and tacked on extra.
So do they(FedEx) get a refund and get to keep the extra fee they forced us to pay, or does the refund come to us?

---

Not a lawyer so what follows seems like common sense.

Since you have a documented that they paid the tariff for you and you paid them the extra tariff costs then they should owe you the money back. Though the extra processing fee will probably be lost.

If they say they owe you nothing, consult a lawyer.

---

Right.... so maybe they give us back the extra $8, but we are still out the $24 in fees?

Or we have to pay 10+ times that for a lawyer?

While the ignorant masses will think this is good for the consumers, in reality it's just import companies getting an extra payday on top of what they already charged.

---

No way. The folks like Lutnick's son and the financial wizards that advised the importers to sale their refund claims and then those that bought them for pennies on the dollar are the winners.

Importers get their quick cash and the refund claim gamblers may get paid something 6 to 7 years from now. Everyone wins!

---

If only Lutnick's son had connections to make sure his claims are paid first. This is just as bad as insider trading by Congress and the executive branch.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Aggie95 said:

---

What has the government actually collected in tariffs so far? The cost to reimburse would probably be double that amount.

---

Roughly $300B where about $100B of that was ruled and qualified as refundable. Thus, as you can see, there is a lot of noise here with little real impact in the grand scheme of

---

---

That has changed then. Reports last week were saying it was 1/3 of the total.

Teslag said:

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2026NCAggies said:

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Good luck with that. Not going to happen

Steel tariffs have cost us a lot of money and we have not gotten a dime and won't get a dime. Neither should any of yall

---

The ruling addresses those who actually sent money to the government for tariff payments. And yes they should be refunded.

---

They sent money to the government and then charged their customers more. And now they get a refund but they're not going to refund their customers.

dvldog said:

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Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was thinking back to Gorsuch's opinion where he mentioned something about the refund mess and that the court chose not to provide any guidance on that (paraphrasing). But I could have also made that up or am remembering it incorrectly...

---

I don't recall Gorsuch saying that, but could have missed it. He essentially shredded several of the justices for ignoring their past decisions (even those that ruled with him here) in this case.

I get it's not an easy thing to unravel, but it's crazy to me to think people that were overtaxed should not get a refund. Not putting you in that camp, but some posters seem to think that.

Jeeper79 said:

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Teslag said:

---

2026NCAggies said:

---

Good luck with that. Not going to happen

Steel tariffs have cost us a lot of money and we have not gotten a dime and won't get a dime. Neither should any of yall

---

The ruling addresses those who actually sent money to the government for tariff payments. And yes they should be refunded.

---

They sent money to the government and then charged their customers more. And now they get a refund but they're not going to refund their customers.

---

Those customers are also free to seek a judicial ruling in their favor.

BMX Bandit said:

---

dvldog said:

---

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was thinking back to Gorsuch's opinion where he mentioned something about the refund mess and that the court chose not to provide any guidance on that (paraphrasing). But I could have also made that up or am remembering it incorrectly...

---

I don't recall Gorsuch saying that, but could have missed it. He essentially shredded several of the justices for ignoring their past decisions (even those that ruled with him here) in this case.

I get it's not an easy thing to unravel, but it's crazy to me to think people that were overtaxed should not get a refund. Not putting you in that camp, but some posters seem to think that.

---

Just to close the loop on this (if for nothing more than me wanting to correct what I said earlier), it was actually in Kavanaugh's dissent:

Quote:

---

One issue will be refunds. Refunds of billions of dollars would have significant consequences for the U. S. Treasury. The Court says nothing today about whether, and if so how, the Government should go about returning the billions of dollars that it has collected from importers. But that process is likely to be a "mess," as was acknowledged at oral argument.

---