B-1 83 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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This Israeli company is going to build one somewhere in the RGV also. (Presumably, if it's desalinization near Corpus.)

An Israeli company will build a desalination plant in Texas to provide clean and cheap water to Texas residents.

It uses leading Israeli technology to convert sea water to drinkable water. pic.twitter.com/t0WMdFPqwH

— Eyal Yakoby (@EYakoby) April 25, 2026

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I saw the city manager of Corpus last night talking about how this has been an issue they've been working on for years now, not wanting to affect the industry (I take it, "the companies are giving the city and state money") side of things while trying to make sure locals weren't affected.

There were people in Corpus whom they interviewed, one who was talking about not wanting to have to deal with water restrictions that they didn't cause. She said they were told that only being able to bathe every other day might be required. That's bizarre.

It makes one wonder if the people who brought the ExxonMobil and SABIC joint venture for Abbott to approve didn't do their due diligence to make sure the water needs wouldn't be a problem. That, or even if they did bring up the potential problems, it was far in the future and the money was more immediate and more important.

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That's a common practice in water shortages though. Just a next step in managing water. Whole host of other practices in addition to that. We haven't been able to water our lawns, wash cars, or fill pools since 2024, already. Granted, some people still do so but will likely get fined for it.

We had the city call us once and threaten us with a $500 fine because our sprinklers were running early in the morning one day a week. I had turned them on to test something and forgot to turn them back off. That was a few months ago now. I still see dumbasses watering their lawns mid-day down here. They should get fined for not only breaking the restrictions but also for just being stupid to run sprinklers mid-day regardless of water shortages.

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I'm with you on the fining of idiots who think they can skirt things.

I just feel for them because this shortage could have been averted, or at least wouldn't have happened, had the companies not come in. At least that's what I've seen/heard from people in the know down there.

Good luck to all in the area. I hope this is fixed sooner rather than later.

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I "skirt" their rules by using a drip hose AND TIMER on my foundation. We can water flowerbeds and our foundations on our garbage pickup day every other week, and I can guarantee I'm more efficient than standing there with a spray nozzle squirting my foundation like the city specifies. If they go one more step in restrictions, I may have to pull all of that up so I don't get accused.

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Good man. I'd be doing the same.

No help to L. Corpus or Choke from yesterday's rains. Some slight elevations upstream but not gonna move the needle at the lakes much, if at all

We'll see what happens the rest of the week

schmellba99 said:

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Ag87H2O said:

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American Hardwood said:

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schmellba99 said:

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Lola68 said:

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I'm referring to all of the protests to the selling of groundwater to Corpus. There was unsubstantiated allegations made by the proponents of dsal that has been picked up by the surrounding towns (Sinton) that somehow Corpus' use of groundwater would harm other users. This is not what the actual evidence suggests.

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Ehh, it depends on what you call harm, the volume of water, etc.

Subsidence is a real thing, and along the coast when the land subsides it doesn't come back up. We don't have rock formations that support the land like the hill country does, so when the aquifer is drawn down the land actually sinks and once that happens, it's a done deal.

Now, the speed of the subsidence can be controlled if the aquifer isn't pumped faster than it can recharge. You can also end up with a subsidence district, which is just another level of government to deal with.

I think Houston is the fastest sinking city right now. Keep in mind that is a relative term. I can tell you that it is a real problem in the Phoenix region. Luke AFB has sank over 20 feet since it first started operations back in the early 1900's. That's a lot.

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Lola68 is exactly correct in the description of the campaigning against groundwater.

Subsidence was a problem in Houston because of unregulated pumping and wellfield density. The Evangeline well field is significantly much less dense.

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Exactly right. Subsidence in Harris and Galveston Counties was a huge problem from the 1940s to the early 1980s. The City of Houston water supply was almost entirely from groundwater, and there were a massive number of large wells along the ship channel and in the refineries that pumped 24/7. The Subsidence District was formed in the mid 70s to deal with the problem and now the city water supply is primarily treated surface water, and most of the big industrial wells along the ship channel have either been abandoned and plugged, or are heavily restricted as to how much can be pumped out of the ground. Water levels have actually come back up in some areas of central Harris County and areas east of town, but the land elevation never recovers.

Now the larger areas of concern are in west and northwest Harris County, and northern Fort Bend County where the rapid growth has occurred over the past 20 years.

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Exactly what I said - it doesn't recover because the subsurface geology doesn't have the rigid support formations that you find as you approach the hill country.

The Evangeline Aquifer is part of the overall Gulf Coast Aquifer, without regulated groundwater pumping and good management, subsidence will happen. It will likely happen regardless, but the Evangeline is mostly confined sands and has better bearing capacity than the Chicote above it does.

Harris, Galveston, Wharton, etc. mostly pull from the Chicote aquifer, which is unconfined clays for the most part - pull the water out, the land sinks, sometimes fast.

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Ahh yes, remember the Brownwood subdivision in Baytown

Affluent waterfront subdivision built in the 1940s

Sank into the bay. Literally.

Recent rain has caught Lake Corpus Christi up to about this point last year giving the infrastructure projects some breathing room:

https://waterdatafortexas.org/reservoirs/individual/corpus-christi

Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

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Good idea. Somervillle has rarely been stressed historically. Plenty of water. About 40" of rain per year in the watershed

Direct Pipeline route would be straight shot and all rural

Downhill flow

That idea is so crazy it just might work

sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

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So, the Mary Rhodes pipeline from Texanna to Corpus was in 2 phases, one in the mid 1990's, and one in 2025. Capable of delivering about 70-100 million gallons to Corpus per day. Total cost about $280 million. Today that would be what, about $500 million?

Given those numbers, I wonder what a pipeline from Somerville to Corpus would cost?

And how would that compare to a desal plant cost? And how much water could that desal plant deliver?

Captain Pablo said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

So, the Mary Rhodes pipeline from Texanna to Corpus was in 2 phases, one in the mid 1990's, and one in 2025. Capable of delivering about 70-100 million gallons to Corpus per day. Total cost about $280 million. Today that would be what, about $500 million?

Given those numbers, I wonder what a pipeline from Somerville to Corpus would cost?

And how would that compare to a desal plant cost? And how much water could that desal plant deliver?

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The Inner Harbor Desal Plant was being designed for a 30 MGD output. USACE reportedly manages Somerville to have about 45,000 acre feet per year available. So you would need about 75% of the available water from Somerville to match the output of the planned desal plant.

txags92 said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

So, the Mary Rhodes pipeline from Texanna to Corpus was in 2 phases, one in the mid 1990's, and one in 2025. Capable of delivering about 70-100 million gallons to Corpus per day. Total cost about $280 million. Today that would be what, about $500 million?

Given those numbers, I wonder what a pipeline from Somerville to Corpus would cost?

And how would that compare to a desal plant cost? And how much water could that desal plant deliver?

---

The Inner Harbor Desal Plant was being designed for a 30 MGD output. USACE reportedly manages Somerville to have about 45,000 acre feet per year available. So you would need about 75% of the available water from Somerville to match the output of the planned desal plant.

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What is the price tag on that desal plant?

Are all plans for a desal plant dead, now that Lake Corpus is at a whopping 26% full?

Captain Pablo said:

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txags92 said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

So, the Mary Rhodes pipeline from Texanna to Corpus was in 2 phases, one in the mid 1990's, and one in 2025. Capable of delivering about 70-100 million gallons to Corpus per day. Total cost about $280 million. Today that would be what, about $500 million?

Given those numbers, I wonder what a pipeline from Somerville to Corpus would cost?

And how would that compare to a desal plant cost? And how much water could that desal plant deliver?

---

The Inner Harbor Desal Plant was being designed for a 30 MGD output. USACE reportedly manages Somerville to have about 45,000 acre feet per year available. So you would need about 75% of the available water from Somerville to match the output of the planned desal plant.

---

What is the price tag on that desal plant?

Are all plans for a desal plant dead, now that Lake Corpus is at a whopping 26% full?

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There are other desal plants in the area that are still moving forward, but the City of CC Inner Harbor project is going nowhere until at least September since they postponed the vote to proceed to a 60% design. Last numbers from the old contractors were on the order of $1.2B for that project, but I thought the new design firm was estimating something less than a billion.

San Diego Plant is making the Colorado water situation a little bit better per this article (it's quoting NYT and I refuse to link them).

For reference, that plant cost around 1 billion. In California. Land of inefficiency and cost overruns.

sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

schmellba99 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

---

I think if you go back and re-read my post above then you would see that I am saying that when Sommerville is full and the overflow is being discharged as part of flood control, that you could redirect that flow to Choke Canyon to help fill up.

It isn't a daily pumping of water or a pipeline to supply direct to Corpus, just a way to capture excess runoff from the Brazos watershed and send to the Frio watershed, which has historically been unable to keep that lake full given the small watershed size, high evaporation rates of the lake during summer, and lack of flow from upstream that goes into various aquifers before the river runs south of HWY 90.

Also, the cost would be much less than what you are thinking, as it is a gravity fed aqueduct versus a dedicated pipeline with pumping stations that is pulling water daily from the lake and the distance from Sommerville to Three Rivers is not as far.

I do also agree that Corpus needs a desal plant as part of the longer-term solution to couple with the current options. This is just another more cost-effective solution to help fill up what is basically a secondary reservoir to Lake Mathis and maybe help keep the overall cost of water for South Texas a little more affordable.

sloppyjoe said:

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schmellba99 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

---

I think if you go back and re-read my post above then you would see that I am saying that when Sommerville is full and the overflow is being discharged as part of flood control, that you could redirect that flow to Choke Canyon to help fill up.

It isn't a daily pumping of water or a pipeline to supply direct to Corpus, just a way to capture excess runoff from the Brazos watershed and send to the Frio watershed, which has historically been unable to keep that lake full given the small watershed size, high evaporation rates of the lake during summer, and lack of flow from upstream that goes into various aquifers before the river runs south of HWY 90.

Also, the cost would be much less than what you are thinking, as it is a gravity fed aqueduct versus a dedicated pipeline with pumping stations that is pulling water daily from the lake and the distance from Sommerville to Three Rivers is not as far.

I do also agree that Corpus needs a desal plant as part of the longer-term solution to couple with the current options. This is just another more cost-effective solution to help fill up what is basically a secondary reservoir to Lake Mathis and maybe help keep the overall cost of water for South Texas a little more affordable.

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Flow in the Brazos river is for the most part fully appropriated to existing water users. So there is very little, if any, that Corpus could get permission to fill Choke Canyon without buying out rights from other water users. If they were going to do that, there are a lot of easier ways to get water from the Brazos to Corpus than running it from Somerville to Choke.

txags92 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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schmellba99 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

---

I think if you go back and re-read my post above then you would see that I am saying that when Sommerville is full and the overflow is being discharged as part of flood control, that you could redirect that flow to Choke Canyon to help fill up.

It isn't a daily pumping of water or a pipeline to supply direct to Corpus, just a way to capture excess runoff from the Brazos watershed and send to the Frio watershed, which has historically been unable to keep that lake full given the small watershed size, high evaporation rates of the lake during summer, and lack of flow from upstream that goes into various aquifers before the river runs south of HWY 90.

Also, the cost would be much less than what you are thinking, as it is a gravity fed aqueduct versus a dedicated pipeline with pumping stations that is pulling water daily from the lake and the distance from Sommerville to Three Rivers is not as far.

I do also agree that Corpus needs a desal plant as part of the longer-term solution to couple with the current options. This is just another more cost-effective solution to help fill up what is basically a secondary reservoir to Lake Mathis and maybe help keep the overall cost of water for South Texas a little more affordable.

---

Flow in the Brazos river is for the most part fully appropriated to existing water users. So there is very little, if any, that Corpus could get permission to fill Choke Canyon without buying out rights from other water users. If they were going to do that, there are a lot of easier ways to get water from the Brazos to Corpus than running it from Somerville to Choke.

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You do know that the lake doesn't fill from the brazos and that the AC of Engineers owns it and gives very little of it to the surrounding area?

Yegua Creek!

A Brazos tributary, but not the Brazos proper

sloppyjoe said:

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txags92 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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schmellba99 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

---

It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

---

I think if you go back and re-read my post above then you would see that I am saying that when Sommerville is full and the overflow is being discharged as part of flood control, that you could redirect that flow to Choke Canyon to help fill up.

It isn't a daily pumping of water or a pipeline to supply direct to Corpus, just a way to capture excess runoff from the Brazos watershed and send to the Frio watershed, which has historically been unable to keep that lake full given the small watershed size, high evaporation rates of the lake during summer, and lack of flow from upstream that goes into various aquifers before the river runs south of HWY 90.

Also, the cost would be much less than what you are thinking, as it is a gravity fed aqueduct versus a dedicated pipeline with pumping stations that is pulling water daily from the lake and the distance from Sommerville to Three Rivers is not as far.

I do also agree that Corpus needs a desal plant as part of the longer-term solution to couple with the current options. This is just another more cost-effective solution to help fill up what is basically a secondary reservoir to Lake Mathis and maybe help keep the overall cost of water for South Texas a little more affordable.

---

Flow in the Brazos river is for the most part fully appropriated to existing water users. So there is very little, if any, that Corpus could get permission to fill Choke Canyon without buying out rights from other water users. If they were going to do that, there are a lot of easier ways to get water from the Brazos to Corpus than running it from Somerville to Choke.

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You do know that the lake doesn't fill from the brazos and that the AC of Engineers owns it and gives very little of it to the surrounding area?

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It is a tributary to the Brazos, so the water rights in it are controlled by the Brazos river watershed and its watermaster at TCEQ. Just because the Corps owns the dam and operates the reservoir doesn't mean it can hand it out to who they want. They reportedly try to release about 45,000 acre-feet per year, but that is likely because that water is owed to downstream water rights holders, as well as to maintain instream flows.

txags92 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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txags92 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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schmellba99 said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Has anyone proposed a pipeline from Lake Sommerville to Choke Canyon? Sommerville is primarily a flood control lake that supplies water to surrounding towns but generally is not relied upon as a municipal water source. US Army Corp of Engineers controls it.

Right now, it is completely full with the recent rains, and any additional water that flows in is headed for the Gulf of America.

Elevation of the dam at Sommerville is a little higher than Choke Canyon and it wouldn't take much energy to make flow happen. Could construct large underground concrete ducts to transport at a fraction of the cost of a desalination plant and fill up Choke Canyon, using existing right of ways for pipelines to lessen the cost.

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It's hardly a "straight shot". And even if it were, it's about 190 miles from the lake to Corpus. Throw in another 30-35% to account for the fact that it isn't a straight shot and you are up to around 250-ish miles. For comparison, Texana to Corpus in a straight shot is about 90 miles.

Multiple river and creek crossings, couldn't count how many railroad and major highway/road crossings. Don't even want to think about how many pipeline crossings there are. Then as you approach Corpus you get to deal with the bays. Fun times.

Somerville dead pool is 206'. So any outfall would have to be above that, and you want enough head above that outfall to provide some positive pressure. So that would raise effective dead pool of the lake to about 225', give or take. Corpus averages around 25' of elevation or so, depending on where the pipeline would end at. That doesn't leave much elevation change over 250 miles - less than 1' per mile. That's less than sewer pipe grades. So you'd have to have pump stations just to get any water from point at to point b. And that doesn't account for friction loss in the pipe either.

There is no scenario where a pipeline from Somerville (which does have recent historical issues of water levels approaching dead pool level) to Corpus doesn't cost in a number that is comparable to a desal plant on the bay with an endless supply of water available. Costs would run into the billions, probably 2-3 billion after you account for studies, design, easement and ROW acquisition and construction costs depending on pipe size and materials.

And Somerville in all likely hood doesn't have enough inflow to match the outflow it would take to fill and maintain a pipeline that would need to provide ~75mgd per day to corpus. Somerville capacity is about 150k acre feet. 75mgd is about 230 acre feet. It doesn't have the volume nor the inflow to meet demand and within about 3-4 years it would be drained dry.

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I think if you go back and re-read my post above then you would see that I am saying that when Sommerville is full and the overflow is being discharged as part of flood control, that you could redirect that flow to Choke Canyon to help fill up.

It isn't a daily pumping of water or a pipeline to supply direct to Corpus, just a way to capture excess runoff from the Brazos watershed and send to the Frio watershed, which has historically been unable to keep that lake full given the small watershed size, high evaporation rates of the lake during summer, and lack of flow from upstream that goes into various aquifers before the river runs south of HWY 90.

Also, the cost would be much less than what you are thinking, as it is a gravity fed aqueduct versus a dedicated pipeline with pumping stations that is pulling water daily from the lake and the distance from Sommerville to Three Rivers is not as far.

I do also agree that Corpus needs a desal plant as part of the longer-term solution to couple with the current options. This is just another more cost-effective solution to help fill up what is basically a secondary reservoir to Lake Mathis and maybe help keep the overall cost of water for South Texas a little more affordable.

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Flow in the Brazos river is for the most part fully appropriated to existing water users. So there is very little, if any, that Corpus could get permission to fill Choke Canyon without buying out rights from other water users. If they were going to do that, there are a lot of easier ways to get water from the Brazos to Corpus than running it from Somerville to Choke.

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You do know that the lake doesn't fill from the brazos and that the AC of Engineers owns it and gives very little of it to the surrounding area?

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It is a tributary to the Brazos, so the water rights in it are controlled by the Brazos river watershed and its watermaster at TCEQ. Just because the Corps owns the dam and operates the reservoir doesn't mean it can hand it out to who they want. They reportedly try to release about 45,000 acre-feet per year, but that is likely because that water is owed to downstream water rights holders, as well as to maintain instream flows.

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You are correct on the water not being owned/controlled by the feds. The State of Texas actually owns the water and gives some of it the Brazos River Authority each year to distribute as you have stated above.

The water that would be available to go to Choke Canyon goes to gulf during excessive rain events. The water that goes to BVRA customers is not the water I am talking about sending to Choke Canyon.

If you diverted the overflow to an aqueduct system from Sommerville to Choke Canyon that is gravity fed, you could build this relatively cheap and without need for having a pumping infrastructure to move it. Not sure if the cost of building this versus the amount of water you get is worth the price, but something to look at.

A desalination plant needs to be built, but the majority of the local residents don't want to pay for it and the politicians that represent them will not vote for any infrastructure improvements. That has been the issue with Corpus Christi since the late 1980's and why that town is gone to hell.

All you need to do is drive down the crosstown expressway and look at the yards of the houses. Even when you could water your lawn those residents didn't have grass in their front yards. Too much work to mow, especially if you have to mow around the car sitting on blocks in your front yard.

Corpus water problems are solved. Somehow choke canyon doesn't catch any run off. Just stays at 8% full.

Corpus up to 28%, Texana full, Choke just sitting at barely over 8% though. Choke seems to have gotten very unlucky with the rain I guess.

itsyourboypookie said:

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Corpus water problems are solved. Somehow choke canyon doesn't catch any run off. Just stays at 8% full.

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Problems are nowhere near solved. They just kicked the can a little further down the road by about 6 months or so. They have more industrial users coming on line and will still need more water than their current sources are providing reliably.

knoxtom said:

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UAS Ag said:

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YouBet said:

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Z3phyr said:

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I believe your math is if the lake has no grading. The top layer is going to have the most area. This website is easier to see how bad it is: https://waterdatafortexas.org/reservoirs/individual/corpus-christi

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Thanks. Interpreting this to mean a loss of ~20 more feet and you are at dead pool. Dead pool is 55.50 feet.

Conservation Pool is 94 feet which I assume means a minimum level for "sustainability".

Guessing based on context though.

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Meh...

My Dad's lake is down 87 feet. It's 3.9% full.

There is no lake that is worse in TX...

Medina Lake Canyon...

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When Medina Lake gets over 1064.5 feet it goes over the spillway and fills Mexican Creek below, which is far and away the best whitewater kayaking in the state. Its a hoot. Back in 2005 and 2006 that run went for months. I heard it ran briefly in 2016 or thereabouts. Used to paddle across the lake, climb down the spillway, then run laps on it. You had to walk back up on the side of the cliff holding your boat and gear so that you didn't have to drive back up and paddle the lake again. Such a great time.

I doubt that lake will ever fill again

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I was there in 2002 when it they were worried it would go over the top of the dam, Got within about 18 inches...I think it was something like 15 above the spillway. You could hear the roar by the county park.

txags92 said:

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itsyourboypookie said:

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Corpus water problems are solved. Somehow choke canyon doesn't catch any run off. Just stays at 8% full.

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Problems are nowhere near solved. They just kicked the can a little further down the road by about 6 months or so. They have more industrial users coming on line and will still need more water than their current sources are providing reliably.

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We have a super El Niño.

Problem solved. God is good. Water your grass, wash your cars, just like the stock market can only go up, no town in Texas can ever run out of water.