Kansas Kid said:

---

AggieChemE09 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Slightly safer, not cheaper.

Only other factor I can think of is building on an underused port could have some benefits of adding refining capacity without increase ship traffic.

---

I seriously doubt this refinery gets built. There is a reason we haven't built a new refinery in the US in 50 years and meantime we have closed almost half of the refineries we had in 1982. We have plenty of capacity already as refineries are great at debottlenecking and the economics don't come close to justifying a new build.

As for safer, maybe a touch but it won't be a lot given the safety rates of US refineries is already unbelievably good these days.

---

I new refinery geared to using straight Eagle Ford oil instead of importing heavy oil and blending it for refining would sure offer some advantages.

Gilligan said:

---

The Fall Guy said:

---

HumbleAg04 said:

---

Light sweet small refinery run by the Indians. I question if it will even get built or be profitable once it does.

---

Called the America First refinery run by Indians.

---

Dot or feather?

---

Dot or feather?
Motel or casino?

And now...


Gas or smoke?

B-1 83 said:

---

I wonder where that "20 year" life expectancy comes from? I can assure you with no hesitation that the Valero, Citgo,and Flint Hills refineries have been along the CC ship channel a lot longer than that.

---

From the article:

"The project includes a 20-year agreement to purchase and process 1.2 billion barrels"

I worked in the O&G business and BTW since you mentioned it a lot of O&G projects use 20 years to run their economics.

carl spacklers hat said:

---

RGV AG said:

---

Dis gonna be good. The port director of the Port of Brownsville is the grandson of Juan N. Guerra, the founder of the Gulf Cartel (also in a runoff for Dem candidate for Cameron County judge). A true American success story.

---

Please check your facts as there is plenty of misinformation already on this thread. The Port Director is William Dietrich, a Seattle native, Army veteran and former Brownsville PD Commander. You are conflating Port Director with BND commissioners.

---

My apologies, you are right he isn't the Port Director, but is member of the Board of Commisioners as you correctly mention. When this was shared with me it was represented as him having big influence at the port. Which I believe is correct if look at some of the recent events that have gone on there. I will fix the post.

B-1 83 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

AggieChemE09 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Slightly safer, not cheaper.

Only other factor I can think of is building on an underused port could have some benefits of adding refining capacity without increase ship traffic.

---

I seriously doubt this refinery gets built. There is a reason we haven't built a new refinery in the US in 50 years and meantime we have closed almost half of the refineries we had in 1982. We have plenty of capacity already as refineries are great at debottlenecking and the economics don't come close to justifying a new build.

As for safer, maybe a touch but it won't be a lot given the safety rates of US refineries is already unbelievably good these days.

---

I new refinery geared to using straight Eagle Ford oil instead of importing heavy oil and blending it for refining would sure offer some advantages.

---

Not really. Volume swell isn't great so can't run a complex facility off of just shale crude so it will be pretty basic. As part of an integrated petrochemical facility economics get better.

I know of at least two capital expansions being planned / considered on the gulf coast with similar feed diet that dwarf this and would actually get built.

BDUB95 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Ehhh, CDUB is in a temporary, err, ummm, timeout.

That being said, generally no.

All of the large refiners have spent significant amounts of money upgrading safety systems and control systems throughout their plants. Even less sophisticated refiners are being forced to update. While there still is variance, the entire industry is much safer and more efficient than it was even just 25 years ago. Between OSHA regulations, environmental regulations, injury lawsuits, and rebuilding costs, the industry finally figured out that it was MUCH cheaper to spend capital money which can be depreciated than spending it on fines, settlements, and rebuilds.

Also, while no new refineries have been built, many refineries have expanded operations within their existing property lines and tagged onto existing air and other environmental permits. So, in reality, refining capacity has kept up with demand.

---

Confusing. You answer no but then give all reasons why it's actually yes.

YouBet said:

---

BDUB95 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Ehhh, CDUB is in a temporary, err, ummm, timeout.

That being said, generally no.

All of the large refiners have spent significant amounts of money upgrading safety systems and control systems throughout their plants. Even less sophisticated refiners are being forced to update. While there still is variance, the entire industry is much safer and more efficient than it was even just 25 years ago. Between OSHA regulations, environmental regulations, injury lawsuits, and rebuilding costs, the industry finally figured out that it was MUCH cheaper to spend capital money which can be depreciated than spending it on fines, settlements, and rebuilds.

Also, while no new refineries have been built, many refineries have expanded operations within their existing property lines and tagged onto existing air and other environmental permits. So, in reality, refining capacity has kept up with demand.

---

Confusing. You answer no but then give all reasons why it's actually yes.

---

He's old. Give him a break, or an Ensure. Your pick.

YouBet said:

---

BDUB95 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Ehhh, CDUB is in a temporary, err, ummm, timeout.

That being said, generally no.

All of the large refiners have spent significant amounts of money upgrading safety systems and control systems throughout their plants. Even less sophisticated refiners are being forced to update. While there still is variance, the entire industry is much safer and more efficient than it was even just 25 years ago. Between OSHA regulations, environmental regulations, injury lawsuits, and rebuilding costs, the industry finally figured out that it was MUCH cheaper to spend capital money which can be depreciated than spending it on fines, settlements, and rebuilds.

Also, while no new refineries have been built, many refineries have expanded operations within their existing property lines and tagged onto existing air and other environmental permits. So, in reality, refining capacity has kept up with demand.

---

Confusing. You answer no but then give all reasons why it's actually yes.

---

HA!

Yeah, that didn't come across well.

What I was trying to convey is that the older refineries have been updated/upgraded so much, that, from a safety and efficiency standpoint, they are the same due to the upgrades. Not really a difference except how shiny the insulation cover is and how nice the paint looks.

Jason C. said:

---

Anything in Brownsville is supply the export market anyway. So it will certainly make some investors in America very great indeed. Not nearly enough demand in South Texas to make that worthwhile, nor in the cross-border or barges to Northern Mexico market.

This all just sounds like creative marketing to get some federal money.

---

Interesting take. From what I understand the Brownsville POE's exported close to $3 billion in petroleum products to Mex per year last couple of years. And that doesn't include the other nearby POE's that were moving some of the same.

If you add the population of both the US and Mex side of the Valley, there are 300K more people there than San Antonio. Couple that with the economic development of the Monterrey and Saltillo areas I would think that there is fairly decent demand in the proximity.

That being said the only big time "pie in the sky" development that has come to fruition in the RGV, out of many touted, has been SpaceX. I look at this deal a little askance, but maybe it does have legs as it is in an area that can be developed, has lower wages than most of the US and is near an already existing export hub. Now, the Mexicans are feverishly trying to develop the Port in Matamoros as well, the blurbs I have seen about it is that they want to be able to service that large offshore discovery that is south of Perdido, I forget the name. Could that have anything to do with all of this?

Tailgate88 said:

---

The Sun said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

Get down Pasadena and No Name BBQ.

---

Pasa-get down-dena

---

Am I listening to Moby in the Morning on 97 Rock?

---

techno-ag said:

---

Tailgate88 said:

---

The Sun said:

---

flown-the-coop said:

---

Get down Pasadena and No Name BBQ.

---

Pasa-get down-dena

---

Am I listening to Moby in the Morning on 97 Rock?

---

---

Git yer lazy ass outta bed

Always on the edge of what the FCC would allow, in the 1980s.

I would add the Next Decade LNG terminal currently under construction to the SpaceX development. The LNG terminal is an $18 billion project being run by Bechtel and there will be a second terminal breaking ground once the first one wraps up. It should be similar in size so anywhere from $15-20 billion, which isn't chump change. The port is being deepened or already has been, from 42 feet to 52 feet, to accommodate larger vessels. Throw a new refinery in the mix and you have 4 serious projects getting off the ground in/around the port since 2014ish. See my comment earlier regarding acreage available - currently roughly 49,000 acres. There are a LOT of things moving in eastern Cameron County and the Port of Brownsville (previously led by Eddie Campirano) has done a very good job promoting the area for growth.

Yes, you are right the LNG deal is pretty impressive. Sooner or later something had to work out for the Port.

I bet this means no more easy mangrove snapper and frequent snook under those north west side docks. I say the previous, but the truth is I haven't fished the ship channel in about 20 years, but boy in the 80s and 90s we would catch some fish down in there.

Jason C. said:

---

Anything in Brownsville is supply the export market anyway. So it will certainly make some investors in America very great indeed. Not nearly enough demand in South Texas to make that worthwhile, nor in the cross-border or barges to Northern Mexico market.

This all just sounds like creative marketing to get some federal money.

---

From the article it sounds like it will be for domestic consumption.

https://myrgv.com/local-news/2026/03/11/new-oil-refinery-would-bring-300-jobs-3b-construction-to-port-of-brownsville/

The port hasn't been as accessible as the "old days" really since post-9/11 unless you know where you are going. I had an absolutely stellar day a few years back up one of the fingers just south of the Amfels site (had to push under an old bridge to access it) where we caught 30 snook in an hour and a half, plus several big jacks.

Good. More H1Bs. This time in O&G.
The olds here were laughing at us in tech having to put up with H1Bs, now they have to do the same.

I worked on the Motiva CEP (Crude Expansion Project) at the Port Arthur refinery from February of 07 to March of 09 from the Phase 2 through Phase 4 detailed engineering completion. The cost of that project, which added 300k/day+ of capacity to the site, went from around $1.5 billion in the "back of the napkin" stage before any engineering began to over $10 billion by the end of construction. I don't know how much more was added during construction, but I was told it got over $12 billion. I have no idea how much it would cost for a new green-field refinery to be built today, but it would have to be around 12 billion, IMO.

BDUB95 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

BDUB95 said:

---

WestAustinAg said:

---

Question for the oil patch experts: Is a new refinery much improved via new technology or computers to provide a safer, more efficient or less expensive alternative to the old refineries we have in SE Texas?

Have 5 decades improved what we can expect from a new gen refinery?

---

Ehhh, CDUB is in a temporary, err, ummm, timeout.

That being said, generally no.

All of the large refiners have spent significant amounts of money upgrading safety systems and control systems throughout their plants. Even less sophisticated refiners are being forced to update. While there still is variance, the entire industry is much safer and more efficient than it was even just 25 years ago. Between OSHA regulations, environmental regulations, injury lawsuits, and rebuilding costs, the industry finally figured out that it was MUCH cheaper to spend capital money which can be depreciated than spending it on fines, settlements, and rebuilds.

Also, while no new refineries have been built, many refineries have expanded operations within their existing property lines and tagged onto existing air and other environmental permits. So, in reality, refining capacity has kept up with demand.

---

Confusing. You answer no but then give all reasons why it's actually yes.

---

HA!

Yeah, that didn't come across well.

What I was trying to convey is that the older refineries have been updated/upgraded so much, that, from a safety and efficiency standpoint, they are the same due to the upgrades. Not really a difference except how shiny the insulation cover is and how nice the paint looks.

---

It is also a lot cheaper to debottleneck and add capacity to an existing facility than a greenfield plant.

C you soon buddy.

RGV AG said:

---

Jason C. said:

---

Anything in Brownsville is supply the export market anyway. So it will certainly make some investors in America very great indeed. Not nearly enough demand in South Texas to make that worthwhile, nor in the cross-border or barges to Northern Mexico market.

This all just sounds like creative marketing to get some federal money.

---

Interesting take. From what I understand the Brownsville POE's exported close to $3 billion in petroleum products to Mex per year last couple of years. And that doesn't include the other nearby POE's that were moving some of the same.

---

The majority of that left the US as "fuel" and entered Mexico as some other product on paper. Tons of illegal fuel contraband imports into Mexico from Brownsville area. Major cartel money laundering scheme. Read up on huachicol if you haven't.

Ag87H2O said:

---

If you look on Google Earth it looks like the ship channel into Brownsville already has a pretty large area where there is a tank farm. I doubt it will be seen or noticed on South Padre Island.

Glad to see a refinery being built. Seems like as good a spot as any.

---

Brownsville is the largest port in North America in terms of physical size/area. They have more than enough room for this and other major projects. There is no good port of comparable capacity in northern Mexico, so Brownsville serves a lot more than just the RGV.

Quote:

---

The majority of that left the US as "fuel" and entered Mexico as some other product on paper. Tons of illegal fuel contraband imports into Mexico from Brownsville area. Major cartel money laundering scheme. Read up on huachicol if you haven't.

---

Read up on it? Hell, I have filled up on it many times. I know the game well, in terms of smuggling the best way to smuggle is to do so not by hiding, but by obfuscating and that is what was done all over Mex for Huachicol, not only via Brownsville. A lot of the fuel that guy from Utah and his family got popped for crossed through other ports as well. Brownsville has had a long history of fuel and other products going through it as it comes down the ICW via barge. I would say that the majority of the fuel that went in via BRO was likely legal, but you correctly point out that a noticeable amount was likely illegal.

Mexico can't operate without imported fuel, even the Dos Bocas deal, if it ever gets running, will still have Mex at a gasoline deficit. Gas and Diesel prices in Mex are sky high and that has only really been a recent thing, historically, for about the last 20-25 years when the governments had to tap domestic fuel consumption as a form of veiled taxation and the consumption fast outpaced supply Prior to that Mexican gas, and especially diesel, was cheaper than the US.

The "cartels" have involvement in the retailing and ground level distribution of Huachicol, but the major players are in the government (which is the original cartel mind you). They just popped several Mexican generals and upper level defense folks for their involvement. To fix the Mexican import process, something I know all too well, there has to be upper level control and manipulation as since 2019 local administrators and authorities no longer can approve or jack with imports unless CDMX dictates, all directions come via a supposedly automated portal out of CDMX. The inspection process is dictated out of CDMX and the locals can do nothing more than watch, the shipments that were getting across with misclassified documentation were protected from the highest level. But low level flunkies and the gringos stupid enough to trust a/the Mexican(s) will take the fall.

No matter, that demand will still be there and is likely growing.

Yes it's sarcasm. One of my finer attributes. The facility was expanded and has a fair amount of rig traffic. It had been an eyesore for many years. Glad to see it booming.


Blue Dolphin Energy Company operates two business segments "Refinery Operations" and "Tolling and Terminaling", both of which are conducted at our Nixon, Texas facility. The Nixon facility is situated near the border of Gonzalez and Wilson Counties, which lies in the heart of the Eagle Ford Shale and is within close proximity to some of the highest producing wells drilled in the Eagle Ford Shale thus far.

Lazarus Energy, LLC (LE) Refinery Operations
LE's primary operating asset is the 15,000 barrel per day Nixon refinery. As a "topping unit," the Nixon refinery is primarily comprised of a crude oil distillation tower/unit the first stage of the crude oil refining process. The refinery separates crude oil and condensate into a single finished product jet fuel and several intermediate products, including naphtha, heavy oil mud blendstock, and atmospheric gas oil.

Nixon Product Storage, LLC (NPS) and Lazarus Refining & Marketing, LLC (LRM) Tolling and Terminaling Operations
The Nixon facility has a tank farm providing approximately 1.2 million barrels of petroleum storage tank capacity, about half of which is used for tolling and terminaling storage. Tolling and terminaling operations also consist of loading and unloading facilities.

The Fall Guy said:

---

https://www.valleycentral.com/news/local-news/president-donald-trump-announces-300b-oil-refinery-coming-to-port-of-brownsville/

Dont know how I like that with South Padre.

---

We have closed at least 7 refineries in the US since 2019 so I'm not sure how exciting this really is?

A $300 billion oil refinery coming to the Port of Brownsville is good news because we need more capacity.

lurker76 said:

---

I worked on the Motiva CEP (Crude Expansion Project) at the Port Arthur refinery from February of 07 to March of 09 from the Phase 2 through Phase 4 detailed engineering completion. The cost of that project, which added 300k/day+ of capacity to the site, went from around $1.5 billion in the "back of the napkin" stage before any engineering began to over $10 billion by the end of construction. I don't know how much more was added during construction, but I was told it got over $12 billion. I have no idea how much it would cost for a new green-field refinery to be built today, but it would have to be around 12 billion, IMO.

---

To be fair, a hurricane rolling through while most of the pumps were sitting on the ground waiting for install (which then required bearing changeouts for ALL of them) did not do any favors there...

If memory serves, there was quite a bit of "on the spot engineering" due to some things not working out the way they had intended (I was working for a contractor there from 09-12).

A simplified 180 MBPD refinery processing light shale oil crude to make gasoline, jet and diesel will cost much less than a 300 MBPD refinery built for heavy crude oil, to Motiva specs. $4 billion is possible.

Good! Build more oil refineries and shut down all wind and solar bull*****

ts5641 said:

---

Good! Build more oil refineries and shut down all wind and solar bull*****

---

If it drives prices of oil and gas pump price down, build, baby, build.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

A $300 billion oil refinery coming to the Port of Brownsville is good news because we need more capacity.

---

Actually, we don't.

The US has had plenty of supply for a long time. If you're thinking more supply will make the price go down, it won't. Refiners are near minimum margins already, and I promise, they will shut down operations before going negative.

The only benefit to more production is export. ExxonMobil's BLADE expansion in Beaumont a few years back was specifically built for export of diesel products, as an example.

Quote:

---

To be fair, a hurricane rolling through while most of the pumps were sitting on the ground waiting for install (which then required bearing changeouts for ALL of them) did not do any favors there...

If memory serves, there was quite a bit of "on the spot engineering" due to some things not working out the way they had intended (I was working for a contractor there from 09-12).

---

It wasn't just pumps, it was large pumps and also giant turbines. It was a major blunder.

But that's not the only reason the price skyrocketed. Bechtel was one of the main contractors as well, and they are notorious for underquoting and change ordering their customer to death.

JamesE4 said:

---

A simplified 180 MBPD refinery processing light shale oil crude to make gasoline, jet and diesel will cost much less than a 300 MBPD refinery built for heavy crude oil, to Motiva specs. $4 billion is possible.

---

The $300B is an lifetime economic activity generation number.

This is a brand new facility from the ground up, so if we are to include dock facilities as well, I'm guessing this will land in the $5-7B range TIC.

RGV AG said:

---

Dis gonna be good. A Board of Directors of the Port of Brownsville/Navigation District is the grandson of Juan N. Guerra, the founder of the Gulf Cartel (also in a runoff for Dem candidate for Cameron County judge). A true American success story.

---

This is a sign that one of his opponents, or somebody affiliated with his opponents, had at various spots around the county prior to the primary.

[url=https://ibb.co/hFq470NM][/url]

IIRC, it was more than just mechanical equipment. I think some Remote Instrument Enclosures (RIEs) were also flooded and the equipment needed to be replaced. The company I worked for had subbed the engineering work from Bechtel, which accounted for about 45% of the overall scope. And yes, Bechtel was is/was a master of hard-money bids and change orders to inflate the cost of a project.