Foamcows said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Foamcows said:

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Just throwing this out there.... Having a local dealer is nice if you need someone local to help you with issues.

A few posts up, someone suggested that you buy from the brand, and then if you have issues/recalls use the dealers? How does that work, the dealers wont survive if you go around them when you buy the car.

I have a tesla, and the biggest issue I have with the car is dealing with going to Tesla direct.

If you ever want to feel like you are nothing to a brand, buy a Tesla. Anytime you need help or have questions... you get to use the app to send a message and hope you get a reply back in a timely manner... When my battery took a crap on me and left me stranded at a charger, I had to submit a ticket for service and sort out getting a tow truck via the app.

I thing the value of the dealer is the customer support, give up the dealer and its you versus the brand, and the scale that these brands operate at, you are not worth their time.

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The manufacturers would certify independent auto shops to service their vehicles under warranty. You would not be without help.

As far as your example, how does a dealer help if my car bonks out and I need a tow?! It's not like I call a phone number and I get some white glove treatment where they dispatch a tow truck, haul my vehicle to a dealer, give me a ride home, etc.. I have to take care of all that just like Tesla owners do.

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The thing is.... im not seeing that happen with Tesla.. they seem to want to create a monopoly, even to the point you cant buy parts and DIY if you wanted to.

I would love for this to happen, it would be great and solve my biggest pain point with Tesla, but I think Tesla is more interested in selling cars than servicing existing customers. I have run into people with some of the wildest stories while waiting on my car at the Tesla service center.

For reasons I cant understand, Tesla seems to have little/no interest in allowing outside shops access to their bubble. It might be a Tesla quirk.... does anyone know if Rivian (or any other direct to consumer) has authorized 3p service centers that arent owned by Rivian? It really would be a major deciding factor in what car i buy next.

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Makes sense when you realize Tesla is a software and robotics company and not a car company. Think of them as Apple. It's a walled garden.

YouBet said:

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I wonder if we were able to bypass dealers what that would look like. Seems like the manufacturers may not actually want that because it's one more thing they have to manage, but maybe I'm wrong on that.

I would assume many existing dealers would simply just convert over and it wouldn't look all that much different going there. You are still going to need many of them for maintenance and repairs. A lot of independent auto shops can't / won't touch newer vehicles in some cases. We have a local transmission shop and the guy won't touch anything newer than about 2015.

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The old Saturn dealers were probably the best analog. They had a price sheet and a list of options available on the cars. You sat down with them and told them the model, color, engine, transmission, and options you wanted, and they figured out when they could have it built and delivered. There was no haggling on price at all. The price was the price. It was a refreshingly simple way to buy a car. Which is why the other GM divisions worked together to get it killed.

No Spin Ag said:

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Over_ed said:

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Claude! said:

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Other than protectionism for dealers, what's the justification today for not allowing manufacturers to sell directly to consumers?

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Dealers say that they protect consumers, lower costs, provide service, etc... :-)

But dealers can survive only because laws give consumers no alternative.

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Or government governs the way we live in too many ways, this, like forcing us to buy auto insurance, is one of them.

But our politicians work for us, they say.

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about half of Americans cannot afford an out of pocket $1,000 expense.

insurance would be cheaper if we didn't have lawyers suing over indemnity or for a 5mph rearend. insurance would be cheaper if hospitals didn't price gouge.

it would also be cheaper if cars were cheaper. these days, there is so many electronics susceptible to damage from minor car accidents.

I am with you - I loathe personal lines insurance companies, but the idea of not requiring auto insurance is nuts. the $30,000 minimum requirements in Texas is not enough to cover a hospital bill. A truck sent me to the hospital with a concussion and broken nose and his GL limit was gone after the CT scans. hospitals milk claims when its from an accident.

AgGrad99 said:

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The manufacturers would certify independent auto shops to service their vehicles under warranty. You would not be without help.

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Sounds good in theory, but speaking from the perspective of someone that repairs parts...that would be an absolute logistical nightmare for the vehicle manufacturers. As we all know, not all service providers are the same, and that's never more true, than with vehicle service providers.

Ever tried to get a repair done, with a 3rd party warranty? And all the parties are arguing about what needs to be done, or not done...while you wait 2 weeks without a car to get an answer? I imagine something similar.

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The auto dealers are completely independent right now - legally and operationally - from the manufacturer.

If the dealer model goes belly up, Ford (or whoever) could simply find a replacement; they would not get into the repair biz. They would require the new shop to be certified in all Ford Motor Company methods, processes, skills, technology, tools, etc... just like the current independent Ford dealer repair shop. I don't see any difference at all honestly.

You'd probably have lots of specialists and distribution of warranty work across shops. For example, if you have a transmissions shop that currently repairs every manufacturer now post warranty, they could become certified in Ford warranty work on Ford transmissions.

Logos Stick said:

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doubledog said:

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Dealers do provide mechanical service of your auto at a premium price. That is worth something.

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They charge less per hour for warranty work than for non-warranty work. That is the deal they make to get exclusive rights to provide warranty work for the manufacturer. That is why mechanics would rather do non warranty work.

Some states have been trying to make it so dealers get the same pay for warranty work as non warranty work. If they do that, then the manufacturers need to start certifying independent repair shops to do warranty work, which would save consumers money.

Dealerships need to die imo.

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I believe the mechanic is paid the same hourly rate regardless of the work he performs. I have trouble seeing any state allowing a non-exempt employee to be paid two separate hourly salaries.

agracer said:

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Logos Stick said:

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doubledog said:

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Dealers do provide mechanical service of your auto at a premium price. That is worth something.

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They charge less per hour for warranty work than for non-warranty work. That is the deal they make to get exclusive rights to provide warranty work for the manufacturer. That is why mechanics would rather do non warranty work.

Some states have been trying to make it so dealers get the same pay for warranty work as non warranty work. If they do that, then the manufacturers need to start certifying independent repair shops to do warranty work, which would save consumers money.

Dealerships need to die imo.

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I believe the mechanic is paid the same hourly rate regardless of the work he performs. I have trouble seeing any state allowing a non-exempt employee to be paid two separate hourly salaries.

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I think the mechanic gets paid the same either way. But the dealer probably has to do the warranty work with either zero or very little markup on the mechanic's rate. The markup on the non-warranty work is where they make their money, so they would rather not have the mechanic spending time on warranty work if they can avoid it, which is why you get so many "that is normal for these cars/trucks" responses when you are still under warranty.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Well I would hope it would take less time to buy a car than my last experience. Took 5 hours to get everything done.

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Yep. Bought my wife's 4Runner at a dealer, it was a all day affair.

I bought my truck online used from a dealer. Spent about 30 mins on paperwork and had it delivered to the house 2 days later. Only way to go.

Quote:

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The auto dealers are completely independent right now - legally and operationally - from the manufacturer.

If the dealer model goes belly up, Ford (or whoever) could simply find a replacement; they would not get into the repair biz. They would require the new shop to be certified in all Ford Motor Company methods, processes, skills, technology, tools, etc... just like the current independent Ford dealer repair shop. I don't see any difference at all honestly.

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I hear you...but practically it's very different having a dealership who specializes in Ford, and a service company who works on every AC ever made.

I'd think the manufacturer would much prefer things to remain as-is, rather than trying to maintain a new/adequate network of contracted service providers across the country.

As a manufacturer, and service provider...the logistics of that sound miserable to me.

agracer said:

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Logos Stick said:

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doubledog said:

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Dealers do provide mechanical service of your auto at a premium price. That is worth something.

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They charge less per hour for warranty work than for non-warranty work. That is the deal they make to get exclusive rights to provide warranty work for the manufacturer. That is why mechanics would rather do non warranty work.

Some states have been trying to make it so dealers get the same pay for warranty work as non warranty work. If they do that, then the manufacturers need to start certifying independent repair shops to do warranty work, which would save consumers money.

Dealerships need to die imo.

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I believe the mechanic is paid the same hourly rate regardless of the work he performs. I have trouble seeing any state allowing a non-exempt employee to be paid two separate hourly salaries.

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You are correct, the mechs get the same rate per hour, but for warranty work, the mfg sets max time allowed per job, which is typically lower than retail jobs, and warranty work comes with more paperwork, compliance issues, etc...

Relevant Adam Ruins Everything video: