This problem is mostly limited to the construction tho and goes away once the center is in operation is it not? Pretty small slice of the whole life cycle .

And everything is a tradeoff. Environmentally, how many vehicle miles have have modern data services obviated?

Please describe the problems that people and pets have experienced from data centers

I know a cat that lives in a DC. It seems fine (and a constant source of "fun" for the people responsible for keeping the place clean/dust free)

I think a large part of the public view these data centers as simply the nests of the AI that is going to kill us all someday rather than as part of the whole data network that handles all of their every day data needs along with being the nests of the AI that is going to kill us all someday.

Squadron7 said:

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So with zoning restictions, regulations that would force closed loop cooling, and requirements to self supply power....how are these things any worse than a pulp mill or a refinery?

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There are very few long terms jobs created from datacenters. The boost in jobs and local economy is really only during the construction phase. Once it's built, there aren't many people that actually work there. At least with mills and refineries they bring jobs and economic activity to the town.

kb2001 said:

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Squadron7 said:

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So with zoning restictions, regulations that would force closed loop cooling, and requirements to self supply power....how are these things any worse than a pulp mill or a refinery?

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There are very few long terms jobs created from datacenters. The boost in jobs and local economy is really only during the construction phase. Once it's built, there aren't many people that actually work there. At least with mills and refineries they bring jobs and economic activity to the town.

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The same is true of power lines and pipelines. We still need what they do.

Squadron7 said:

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I think a large part of the public view these data centers as simply the nests of the AI that is going to kill us all someday rather than as part of the whole data network that handles all of their every day data needs along with being the nests of the AI that is going to kill us all someday.

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Exactly what Skynet would say.

kb2001 said:

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Squadron7 said:

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So with zoning restictions, regulations that would force closed loop cooling, and requirements to self supply power....how are these things any worse than a pulp mill or a refinery?

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There are very few long terms jobs created from datacenters. The boost in jobs and local economy is really only during the construction phase. Once it's built, there aren't many people that actually work there. At least with mills and refineries they bring jobs and economic activity to the town.

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Well, duh. Is not that the whole point of AI? Don't need people?

kb2001 said:

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Squadron7 said:

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So with zoning restictions, regulations that would force closed loop cooling, and requirements to self supply power....how are these things any worse than a pulp mill or a refinery?

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There are very few long terms jobs created from datacenters. The boost in jobs and local economy is really only during the construction phase. Once it's built, there aren't many people that actually work there. At least with mills and refineries they bring jobs and economic activity to the town.

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Assuming your local county didn't sell out completely, they bring tax money from the improvements without the service demand created by more residents.

Bondag said:

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kb2001 said:

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Thunderstruck xx said:

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The other major complaint I hear is the noise the data centers produce. Something like a constant 90 decibels even hundreds of yards away.

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I don't think it's anywhere near that high. Inside when you're on the floor it's constant and loud; outside, it's not anywhere near that loud. I can believe a constant 90 decibels when you're inside, not outside, just based on personal experience.

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A chiller plant inside is around 90 Decibels so I would think that would be the loudest element.

Even if the data center is loud inside the walls are going to be insulated so you are hearing it outside.

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Our ranch is about a mile from a new data center. I can definitely hear the chillers that are on the outside of the building. The minute they fired them up for the first time it sucked. And again a hair under 1 mile from it. It used to be quiet but you can easily hear it at night. There is a brand new housing development that is next door to it too. I can't imagine having to live within 100' of it. That's gotta suck.

But, no matter, the noise is from the outside of the building and they give zero ****s about making it environmentally friendly or being courteous to folks living there.

It an urban environmental you might not notice but in the sticks you absolutely do because it's still quiet. It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

All you can do is sell out and leave. Out in the country you don't have ordinances or anything to protect you so the data centers just do whatever the want. Reaching out to "community outreach management" just results in slow playing your compliant and always looking into it but they never actually do anything.

A simple noise curtain would suffice I'd think.

Never thought I'd prefer an old diesel ag pump running 24/7 in a rice field but here we are. lol.

There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

SunrayAg said:

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There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

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If you don't have the infrastructure in place to handle a data center, a data center will not go there.

HTownAg98 said:

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SunrayAg said:

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There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

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If you don't have the infrastructure in place to handle a data center, a data center will not go there.

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And yet they are bulldozing farms and ranches to put them in all over the state.

Guess what is there. Hint: it's electricity, and lots of it with redundancy.

HTownAg98 said:

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SunrayAg said:

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There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

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If you don't have the infrastructure in place to handle a data center, a data center will not go there.

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Urban areas are a good idea. Electricity, water, fewer residents. Urban renewal.

jja79 said:

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There's a gigantic Google facility that's been under construction for 3+ years next to a residential neighborhood in Gilbert, Arizona.

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Out of curiosity, I wanted to fact check this just because I've never ever, ever, ever seen a data center right next door to a residential neighborhood.

Obviously anything is possible and anything could happen in the right jurisdiction.

Looks like the new Google Data Center is going in at the north east corner of: Elliot and Sossaman roads in Mesa, AZ.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bcB9xtjTPjqhJ8tJ8
https://www.datacenters.com/google-mesa-campus

Looks like the closest residential is an apartment complex - 1,100 feet away.
The nearest single family homes are 1/2 mile away.

Between the homes and the Data Center are Sports fields and other industrial businesses. So, pretty much like every other data center out there.

I used to live 1/2 a block away from the Disney Studio in Burbank and about 2 blocks from a hospital.

I got tons of public notices about commercial development happening within 1,000 feet of my home. Just about every time there was an opportunity for the public to comment, the developer or business had to make concessions to the city and the existing residents.

In one case, the city successfully stopped a property re-development from an industrial use to a retail use based on fears presented by the very powerful Burbank Rancho group of horse property owners. Hopefully you appreciate the irony that the business the horse owners stopped was Whole Foods. The fear was that people going to Whole Foods were going to run over their horses.

In the case of Mesa, it looks like they're actively marketing the city to recruit new Data Centers.

Quote:

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The city has been an unquestioned leader in data center development for several years, and Google's Redhawk campus has been a flagship project.

Not including Phase III of Redhawk, DATABEX shows 19 data center projects in Mesa, all of which are located in the 85212 ZIP code, loosely bounded by Meridian/Ironwood roads in the east, Power/Recker roads in the west, Germann Road in the south and Guadalupe Road in the north.

Of those 19 projects, five have been completed and sevenincluding Redhawk Phase IIare under construction. The total 85212 data center project set has an estimated construction valuation of nearly $9.64B.

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https://azbex.com/planning-development/google-planning-next-phase-of-mesa-data-center-facility/

Burdizzo said:

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kb2001 said:

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Squadron7 said:

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So with zoning restictions, regulations that would force closed loop cooling, and requirements to self supply power....how are these things any worse than a pulp mill or a refinery?

---

There are very few long terms jobs created from datacenters. The boost in jobs and local economy is really only during the construction phase. Once it's built, there aren't many people that actually work there. At least with mills and refineries they bring jobs and economic activity to the town.

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Assuming your local county didn't sell out completely, they bring tax money from the improvements without the service demand created by more residents.

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I have been following proposed data centers in Young and Jack Counties. The heartburn for the County Commissioners is exactly what you pointed out...tax base with little additional services required from a county government. The power and water is not in their wheelhouse.

The greenies are there. Many of the outlandish "statistics" being thrown around can be traced back to them. Around here, the opposition started out from the NIMBY crowd, but the hysteria and 24/7 posting of articles from all over the country parroting the hyperbole has ramped up and entered the county politics. We now have runoff elections basically between the anti-data center candidates and the old guard. We have one candidate that only supports "organic" economic development, whatever that is.

SunrayAg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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SunrayAg said:

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There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

---

If you don't have the infrastructure in place to handle a data center, a data center will not go there.

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And yet they are bulldozing farms and ranches to put them in all over the state.

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That's because most of the really high capacity transmission lines run straight through farmland, and that's exactly what these data centers need to operate.

YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

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It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

Thunderstruck xx said:

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SunrayAg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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SunrayAg said:

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There are craptons of vacant lots and dilapidated urban decay that could be used for data centers in urban and industrial areas.

So stop f-ing up our farm and ranch land with the garbage. Put it in urban industrial areas.

---

If you don't have the infrastructure in place to handle a data center, a data center will not go there.

---

And yet they are bulldozing farms and ranches to put them in all over the state.

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That's because most of the really high capacity transmission lines run straight through farmland, and that's exactly what these data centers need to operate.

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And that doesn't make it any less of a f***ing for the small towns and rural communities that are being completely f***ed over by the monstrosities. There are plenty of power lines and water access in the urban blighted areas and industrial areas of the big cities, where you might displace a few homeless whinos instead of f***ing over rural communities.

HTownAg98 said:

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The water use thing has been overblown. The energy use is a different matter. The thing is that a lot of these data centers want to have their energy use behind the meter. But it's going to take permitting reform by Congress to get it done. And the issue with that is neither party wants to do something where if they do it, the other side comes out of it looking good as well. So everyone loses with higher utility bills. Yay Congress.

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The water usage is a major issue if you consider that its not just the direct water used by the data centers but also the water used by the electrical generation for the data center.

BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

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It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

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Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

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It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

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Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

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I just mean everything in our life revolves around cloud services and AI. And this demand is growing. Until that demand goes away, what are the alternatives?

My contention is that, like everything electronic, in 10 years, these datacenters are going to be albatrosses strapped to the land. We won't need the size, compute, electrical, water, etc to run them.

That's going to be a real pain in the ass because no one is retrofitting a 10 year old data center to be more efficeint. They'll just let that ****er run until components have to be replaced.

Where I am, a neighbor sold 200 acres for one. And that company upgraded all of the power and water lines that were not there before. So, even the powerlines near our ranch were upgraded from 3 conductors to 11. And now they are adding an additional power pole set to connect it's substation to another. So, the power lines running their property are about 200' wide, and have 20 wires combined or more. They have 3 redundant power supplies from two co-ops, plus about 40 MASSIVE diesel generators. I mean these things are larger than a semi tractor trailer rig....and there are 40. When the power went out a few weeks ago, there was an epic PLUME of black smoke as these gen set came online....it was something to see (and hear). It's 'green' as ****.

It's on the NW corner of Elliot and Sossaman and a decent golfer could hit a ball into the Morrison Ranch and Arizona Skyline neighborhoods. On the NE corner is a new facility with a lot of secrecy around it. That looks like it in the pictures in your link.

In any case, it looks like the City of Mesa is intentionally trying to attract the various Data Center operators.

In the mid-1990s when I was working for The State of Texas as an Environmental Engineer, I learned a very valuable lesson from contested permit applications..

The lesson is, if you like the area around you, if you like your view, and you want to preserve it, you need to buy it.

Otherwise, development on property you don't own, you can't do anything about it other than try to hold up developers through regulations.

Which frankly is exactly why I bought my mountain property in a rural Nevada county. So I didn't have to deal with big city regulations.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Jbob04 said:

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You must live in the city where these aren't being built. Us country folks don't want them.

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This we don't. But you also can't dictate who your neighbor sells to so that's the other side of the coin. They put these literally a few hundred feet from residential locations and full blown neighborhoods. I'm not sure if I like 1000 homes or one big data center. Both options suck a lot.

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I'm all for personal property rights. Our fight is with the county commissioners and tax abatements. These things don't get built without abatements. We've made it known that they will be voted out if they grant abatements. Our county judge just lost his reelection in March because he kept things from the community about data center projects. He's been the judge for over 25 years here.

Jbob04 said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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Jbob04 said:

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You must live in the city where these aren't being built. Us country folks don't want them.

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This we don't. But you also can't dictate who your neighbor sells to so that's the other side of the coin. They put these literally a few hundred feet from residential locations and full blown neighborhoods. I'm not sure if I like 1000 homes or one big data center. Both options suck a lot.

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I'm all for personal property rights. Our fight is with the county commissioners and tax abatements. These things don't get built without abatements. We've made it known that they will be voted out if they grant abatements. Our county judge just lost his reelection in March because he kept things from the community about data center projects. He's been the judge for over 25 years here.

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Yes, they did the same thing where we are. But the politicians are old and ready to be out of office anyway and while the data centers got huge tax breaks for 8-10 years, they paid back taxes on land that has been ag exempt since the 1800's, AND they are paying for all of the infrastructure upgrades, electric substations, water lines, gas lines, road expansions, etc, etc.. So, these small little towns get improvements that they wouldn't have been able to get otherwise.

It sucks. I hate them, but companies that have nearly 300 BILLION DOLLARS in annual revenue aren't going to be overly concerned about a tax break or whether they get it or not.

The company that is trying to come into our area has not built one where they did not receive an abatement. They are a third party builder that builds as cheap as possible and then sells to a big company.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

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It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

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Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

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You think these threads are moderated by actual humans?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA














Please don't ban me.

Jbob04 said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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Jbob04 said:

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You must live in the city where these aren't being built. Us country folks don't want them.

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This we don't. But you also can't dictate who your neighbor sells to so that's the other side of the coin. They put these literally a few hundred feet from residential locations and full blown neighborhoods. I'm not sure if I like 1000 homes or one big data center. Both options suck a lot.

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I'm all for personal property rights. Our fight is with the county commissioners and tax abatements. These things don't get built without abatements. We've made it known that they will be voted out if they grant abatements. Our county judge just lost his reelection in March because he kept things from the community about data center projects. He's been the judge for over 25 years here.

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This. No subsidies.

Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

---

It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

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Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

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Unfortunately there have been plenty of autumn Saturday afternoons over the years where TexAg's usage has gone through the roof.

Ag CPA said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

---

It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

---

Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

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Unfortunately there have been plenty of autumn Saturday afternoons over the years where TexAg's usage has gone through the roof.

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Damned right.

One early season loss to a directional school and you'll want that data center!

You'll need that data center!

Yes. It's the new NIMBY crusade for folks who haven't figured out yet that if you don't own something you don't get to tell the person who does what they can or cannot do with it.

Here in Texas it's mostly a crusade for people who moved out to the suburbs who think the "little town" they moved to within 45 minutes of DFW/Austin/San Antonio/Houston is the actual Country and was going to stay that way forever.

They want to move in but don't want anyone else to follow them. Luckily we still believe in private property rights, for now….

Squadron7 said:

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Ag CPA said:

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Concerned Moderate Ag said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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YouBet said:

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Quote:

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It's like having someone run 10 leaf blowers 10 houses away, 24/7/365.

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Hell on earth.

---

It sucks....but unless we are going to stop using Texags, and credit cards, and facebook, and have all of our storage online with cloud based stuff, this is what we are going to have to deal with.

I've listened to the karens ***** and moan about it, but they sure as hell aren't giving up Nextdoor, their credit card, or Microsoft Office.

---

Why you throwing texags under the bus? If this site uses a cumulative rack of compute I'd be shocked. Can't imagine it's ever used much.

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Unfortunately there have been plenty of autumn Saturday afternoons over the years where TexAg's usage has gone through the roof.

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Damned right.

One early season loss to a directional school and you'll want that data center!

You'll need that data center!

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I wasn't on TexAgs back then but, that 1999 Tech loss that caused the site to have a permanent reset... That game was awful.