Came here for the Covid.

Burrus86 said:

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It's California! What did you expect!

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For it to be painted in rainbow colors?

Aside from that, it's not really a surprise. I mean, Texas is working on getting one from Houston to Dallas made in the future, so a blue state doing one is more on par than Texas's one.

High-speed trains between cities work, if and only if there are 4 conditions:

1.) Rock sold public transit systems to solve the last mile problem.
2.) Dense urban cores
3.) Small distances between cities
4.) Taxpayers who want to pay through the nose to subsidize the whole mess.

With respect to condition 3, the Dallas-Houston distance is at the maximum for which the idea works well for business travel. It's effectively the same as the Brussels-London trip. The difference, of course, is that Dallas and Houston lack the public transit in the last mile, the dense urban cores, and the taxpayers who want to pay through the nose to subsidize the whole mess.

I say this as someone who has enjoyed extremely positive rail travel experiences in the UK, Italy, France, Belgium, and Germany. I've even used the Acela and the Hiawatha on work trips. The only place in America where the math (sort of) works is the Boston-DC corridor.

I just want a little slice like $50 million of the grift and I'll be set.

annie88 said:

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Mega Lops said:

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It's insane people in Texas actually wanted to do something like this.

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The idea of being able to get between Houston and Dallas quickly is very appealing, can't remember if it included San Antonio, but what you have to do to get it done is not. Both financially and morally.

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This. The high speed trains in Germany were a great way to get around but it's just not practical today in Texas to implement, especially as massive government eminent domain has to be used and I'm not a fan of that of that just to avoid the hassle of the airport to get to Houston quickly when I have to

Even in the Bay Area, the last-mile problem makes an inter-city train pretty useless. God save you in LA.

Vestal_Flame said:

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High-speed trains between cities work, if and only if there are 4 conditions:

1.) Rock sold public transit systems to solve the last mile problem.
2.) Dense urban cores
3.) Small distances between cities
4.) Taxpayers who want to pay through the nose to subsidize the whole mess.

With respect to condition 3, the Dallas-Houston distance is at the maximum for which the idea works well for business travel. It's effectively the same as the Brussels-London trip. The difference, of course, is that Dallas and Houston lack the public transit in the last mile, the dense urban cores, and the taxpayers who want to pay through the nose to subsidize the whole mess.

I say this as someone who has enjoyed extremely positive rail travel experiences in the UK, Italy, France, Belgium, and Germany. I've even used the Acela and the Hiawatha on work trips. The only place in America where the math (sort of) works is the Boston-DC corridor.

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It only works Houston to Dallas if commuters can park their cars on a flat bed rail car and ferry it along with them.

Yup. That's the last-mile problem defeating the dream.

Don't get me wrong. I am profoundly pro-train. Where trains work (e.g., Europe), I use the hell out of them. They just won't work here. Trains in Texas and California are no more practical than canal boats, which also play a big role in Europe.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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They started this mess in 2008,

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I thought this high rail stuff in CA started much earlier than that. Is that the year they started buying up the ROW?

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You're correct. I worked for a research company from 2005-2014. This project was in our database when I started in 2005 and was a few years old even then.

I used to laugh when people would ask for this record with intents to pursue contractor business

One might see some comparisons between California and Springfield.

annie88 said:

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Mega Lops said:

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It's insane people in Texas actually wanted to do something like this.

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The idea of being able to get between Houston and Dallas quickly is very appealing, can't remember if it included San Antonio, but what you have to do to get it done is not. Both financially and morally.

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Why would anyone from Dallas want to go to Houston?!

Logos Stick said:

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annie88 said:

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Mega Lops said:

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It's insane people in Texas actually wanted to do something like this.

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The idea of being able to get between Houston and Dallas quickly is very appealing, can't remember if it included San Antonio, but what you have to do to get it done is not. Both financially and morally.

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Why would anyone from Dallas want to go to Houston?!

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Better BBQ .... ; )

Correct. Especially the last mile. It works in Europe because they have that issue solved. That's why I use trains in Europe to travel between countries/cities. Once I get to my destination, the taxi and mass transit system is ubiquitous and high quality.

It's a huge boondoggle to be sure but in terms of all of the other boondoggles and fraud going on it's just another one on a long, long list. In terms of damage done it pales in comparison to Covid and collective voter fraud imo.

annie88 said:

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Mega Lops said:

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It's insane people in Texas actually wanted to do something like this.

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The idea of being able to get between Houston and Dallas quickly is very appealing, can't remember if it included San Antonio, but what you have to do to get it done is not. Both financially and morally.

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They're tearing down the NW Mall in Houston as this is where the future station will be. However, the line ends outside of the 610 loop. Additionally the rail to get to the NW center are pre-existing and not rated for speed nor are they isolated from local cross traffic.

So even IF this is built the train will have to slow down outside of Houston and slowly come in and THEN there isnt any other transportation into downtown. Probably a shuttle bus to the NW bus transit center.

I do not believe they'll have light rail from the HSR to downtown because acquiring the ROW will be extremely expensive.

Deerdude said:

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Harder to skim funds if project is completed. Why would they ever want to finish?

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You wouldn't believe how skimable maintenance contracts can be.

They'll " solve"that with driverless rideshare . 90 mins Dallas to Houston, another 90 from the station to your ultimate destination… if your'e lucky.

Tons of people fly across the state every day for work etc and all seem to make it work with uber etc. it could absolutely work here (just like it has in Florida) with competent leadership. If the state doubles in population in the next 50 years we're going to need more and better ways to move people between the cities. 45 & 35 can't just be 12 lanes wide the whole way

You know how big of a cluster this high speed rail it?

Even the most ardent commies on Texags can't defend it, and they've defended a lot of asinine positions.
Everyone of them was for it back in 2008, and almost every Republican called it as a boondoggle.

A quarter of a trillion just to build it, then how much additional loss will come for not being able to cover operational costs?

Who am I kidding, we'll never know cause it won't ever actually get built.

Quote:

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There's nothing wrong with high speed rail, *IF* you can make it commercially viable.

Want high speed rail, and you think you can make it commercially viable?
Go for it.

But no taxpayer money.

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So a line from fantasyland to Narnia?

Posts like this perpetuate the outrage addiction cycle, but provide no solutions.

What is the problem they are attempting to solve?

What is a viable solution to fix it?

Switch the mindset and bring solutions to the table. Real, actionable, data driven solutions.

By the time this project is complete, it will be obsolete.

I took a high speed train in Europe and it was awesome! I wish we had that here. I've heard Amtrak is terrible, but I've reverted tried it.

Logos Stick said:

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Correct. Especially the last mile. It works in Europe because they have that issue solved. That's why I use trains in Europe to travel between countries/cities. Once I get to my destination, the taxi and mass transit system is ubiquitous and high quality.

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You may thank the Marshal plan (in Western Europe).

SigAg6 said:

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I took a high speed train in Europe and it was awesome! I wish we had that here. I've heard Amtrak is terrible, but I've reverted tried it.

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I agree.

I travelled on one out of Madrid.

By far the highest velocity I have experienced without being airborne.

Every single mass transit system on the planet bleeds money, except Japan. China always brags, and their Western-based useful idiots always talk about how China leads the world in high-speed rail and we should have that. China State Railways is losing BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars a month, not to mention the 1 TRILLION debt they have to service for creating the financial disaster. People think CA. High-speed trains are expensive now; just wait till they work!!

IIIHorn said:

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SigAg6 said:

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I took a high speed train in Europe and it was awesome! I wish we had that here. I've heard Amtrak is terrible, but I've reverted tried it.

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I agree.

I travelled on one out of Madrid.

By far the highest velocity I have experienced without being airborne.

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The one I took was Lisbon to Porto. It didn't feel super fast, but it was on time, clean, and relatively easy. My "first class" ticket was maybe 30 dollars. I think they are going to buld one that is faster. As far as it being profitable or a burden on taxpayers there, I have no clue. They are a poor country, but it was a good experience. Less stressful than flying.

IIIHorn said:

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By the time this project is complete, it will be obsolete.

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You see, that's the sheer genius of this project. As long as it's not completed, it can not be obsolete.

Nah, this is a rounding error compared to what they've done with the climate change bull*****

There are a lot of creeps in politics, but Gavin Newsom is one of the worst. The guy isn't just all hat, no cattle. He's no hat.

I mean, constantly contradicts himself, constantly lies, constantly thinks he's being clever like Trump, which never works and has completely ruined his state. And his wife is even more of a freaking, racist lunatic. Their children must be absolute morons.

And I'm pretty sure his wife is the one that slept with Harvey Weinstein, and tried to downplay some of the actresses that wanted to come forward. Apparently Gavin slept with her best friend or something, too. I know that's more personal stuff, but they are very strange couple

He is the typical cartoonish version of the baby-kissing politician.

SigAg6 said:

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IIIHorn said:

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SigAg6 said:

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I took a high speed train in Europe and it was awesome! I wish we had that here. I've heard Amtrak is terrible, but I've reverted tried it.

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I agree.

I travelled on one out of Madrid.

By far the highest velocity I have experienced without being airborne.

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The one I took was Lisbon to Porto. It didn't feel super fast, but it was on time, clean, and relatively easy. My "first class" ticket was maybe 30 dollars. I think they are going to buld one that is faster. As far as it being profitable or a burden on taxpayers there, I have no clue. They are a poor country, but it was a good experience. Less stressful than flying.

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My trip was Madrid to Seville. First Class, max speed 300 km/hr (187 mph), inexpensive tickets and terminals that are much easier to deal with than airports.