This was interesting to read about cooling towers. Explains it pretty well I thought.

https://www.cedengineering.com/userfiles/M07-001%20-%20Cooling%20Towers%20-%20US.pdf

flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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CenTrio uses it and it's not 30 years old.

Central chillers is a big deal in many places, Houston being one of if not the biggest and the first.

https://www.centrioenergy.com/case-studies/houston-ice-battery/

And yes, several systems out there to recover 10%-30% of evaporated water, which is only a very small portion of the water utilized in the cooling towers.

Keep your mind open, you will learn more.

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How do you recover evaporated water?

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Most refer to it as condensation.

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I take from this you have no idea what you are talking about. Condensation is from the cooling coils. Evaporative cooling is from cooling towers, and is not recovered.

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I take it you have never had distilled water, spirits, beer, etc. Have you ever seen it rain and are you familiar with the water cycle?

Evaporative cooling towers work the same as all other methods of heating and cooling and its driven by heat exchange. Most of the heat exchange is from evaporation but only about 1% of water is evaporated per pass and the vapor plume can be equipped to condense that vapor back to recovered water via various methods.

My degrees are in accounting and information systems. But they are decidedly irrelevant to a basic understanding of the physical states of H2O.

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You have no idea what you are talking about. This is not beer. ME '88. No, not 1 percent is evaporated. Reference my high rise example of 80 gallons a minute needed for make up.

You have no idea how cooling towers work. I do not disparage my fellow Ags but you need to sit this one out.

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Tell us how they work and cite your sources. Maybe get the slide rule out and show us the calcs.

I notice you dropped your ice battery misinformation after that was cited. I don't think I need to clutter the thread up about cooling towers and how evaporative cooling works, but to think all water is flash steamed in evaporative cooling and lost permanently to the atmosphere never to become water again is frankly bizarre, but who knows what they taught in ME back in the mid 80s.

Fact remains only ~1% of water is evaporated during each pass and 10%-30% of that can be recovered. Rather than trying to shout down at someone who may have been familiar but who went back to check the facts, and looked into any new developments (I was not aware that they have figured out an approach to "ice battery" backups and is in use and not some failed technology from 30 years ago.

https://spxcooling.com/news/how-to-conserve-water-in-evaporative-cooling-towers/

Enjoy some reading and again an open mind is needed to learn. Spouting an engineering degree from 40 years ago is not open minded.

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Let's see. Yes, 35 years in data center design. We have come a long way. Did you really think all I know is from when I graduated? Who do you think helped progress the design? It was not an accountant that read a few articles.
You have zero knowledge in data center design and construction and it shows.

Edit: Turn off your Smart Phone, iPad and any computer you have. Be a real protester for data centers. Step up.

Urban Country Boy said:

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Let's see. Yes, 35 years in data center design. We have come a long way. Did you really think all I know is from when I graduated? Who do you think helped progress the design? It was not an accountant that read a few articles.
You have zero knowledge in data center design and construction and it shows.

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Then how is it you are so uninformed on this? You keep up your vague attacks but do nothing to refute, explain, clarify, or anything.

What else would I reference other than the degree and year you graduated? If you were being sincere in discussion, you would have led with "I've been building data centers for 35 years" but instead you demanded to know my degree and year of graduation.

And now you have ignored two articles showing how you are representing your knowledge on the subject is not reflective of reality.

You may be hung up on some sort of semantical anomaly, but take a moment and gather your consider comments like you being unable to recover evaporated water vapor as fantastically… wrong.

insulator_king said:

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This was interesting to read about cooling towers. Explains it pretty well I thought.

https://www.cedengineering.com/userfiles/M07-001%20-%20Cooling%20Towers%20-%20US.pdf

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Thanks for sharing.

flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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Let's see. Yes, 35 years in data center design. We have come a long way. Did you really think all I know is from when I graduated? Who do you think helped progress the design? It was not an accountant that read a few articles.
You have zero knowledge in data center design and construction and it shows.

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Then how is it you are so uninformed on this? You keep up your vague attacks but do nothing to refute, explain, clarify, or anything.

What else would I reference other than the degree and year you graduated? If you were being sincere in discussion, you would have led with "I've been building data centers for 35 years" but instead you demanded to know my degree and year of graduation.

And now you have ignored two articles showing how you are representing your knowledge on the subject is not reflective of reality.

You may be hung up on some sort of semantical anomaly, but take a moment and gather your consider comments like you being unable to recover evaporated water vapor as fantastically… wrong.

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You have no idea how engineering works.

I have a good understanding of the water cycle and evaporative cooling.

You should probably also reflect on the fact I am not in anyway against data centers. In fact, I am showing others that their fears of vast water usage are a bit misguided as even the evaporative cooling is not as water exploitive as some indicate.

But if you want to keep telling other people they are ignorant without backing it up, have at it.

There are no regulations about having to do closed loop water system. In fact, the data center we are fighting has said they will not use closed loop. Sick of hearing about closed loop water. Its a lie in this boondoggle

You are wasting your time arguing with him. He's Mr know it all actually guy

flown-the-coop said:

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insulator_king said:

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This was interesting to read about cooling towers. Explains it pretty well I thought.

https://www.cedengineering.com/userfiles/M07-001%20-%20Cooling%20Towers%20-%20US.pdf

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Thanks for sharing.

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I made an "A" in Thermodynamics as a ME at A&M. I think I will go with me over an account degree. Just my observation.

ttu_85 said:

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BrazosDog02 said:

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Queso1 said:

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This reminds me of my law school's building. It was constructed decades ago a certain way in order to hold computers. The massive computers needed to process whatever data weighed tens of thousands of pounds. I'm now posting with a phone with exponentially more processing power.

I think these things will be obsolete in 10 years and nobody will clean them up. Just another blight on our country's landscape.

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Don't blame me. I'm unapologetically completely anti progress. If I could push a button and send my county back to 1948, ship out everyone that moved here that's not an original founding family, I'd smash that button so fast I'd probably break every bone from my fingers to my shoulder….which would be a pain since there aren't hospitals where I am in 1948. But I'd roll those dice anyway.

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Uh, relative to past years, the late 40's probably witness more societal changing tech growth than any other era. The application of nuke power, mass and personal transport, and 1st gen computers is huge by any standard.

Sorry but using 1948 for this example is a huge logic fail. However I do agree with some of your overall argument.

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I'll take 1948, 1932, 1957……any of that please. My ranch was two days ride to town. Now it's 30 minutes and I see city slickers on the way.

But you get my point. I want to go back. Way back. When people wouldn't move tot he country because it was hard.

Jbob04 said:

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You are wasting your time arguing with him. He's Mr know it all actually guy

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Seem to know more than some.

Others are just too ashamed to admit they were… wrong or at best inaccurate just because they went to college decades ago.

Okay, so then tell us how you think this works? Be specific, show your work. Because everything indicates your take is… wrong.

SunrayAg said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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TAMUallen said:

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Data centers are going to be such an issue for electricity grids

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Good. We need a real problem to galvanize us and cure our country of its NIMBY paralysis. I'm tired of watching China race ahead in functioning infrastructure because we require ten years of permitting and environmental impact studies to widen a ****ing sidewalk.

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Maybe you should move to China where there are no private property rights?

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He's NOT referring to that. He is referring to the infinite bureaucracy brought on by big govt. The people Ronald Reagan was referring to when he said "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Jbob04 said:

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There are no regulations about having to do closed loop water system. In fact, the data center we are fighting has said they will not use closed loop. Sick of hearing about closed loop water. Its a lie in this boondoggle

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No one has ever said they are all closed loop, there are thousands of data centers across the country already that are not, but all the sudden its an issue because of the vocal minority.

Aa mentioned if you want to be part of the "solution" stop using data. Or protest golf courses, high rises, farms, etc, there are a lot more water hogs than data centers, its just the shiny new thing to protest and is being funded by the chinese.

Saying something is "closed loop" still requires further details. Plenty of ways for additional water usage for hardware cooling in these systems.

Absolutely stoopid. Water is important. Transparency from local officials is important. To say otherwise is just another way of burying your head to support your side.

flown-the-coop said:

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Okay, so then tell us how you think this works? Be specific, show your work. Because everything indicates your take is… wrong.

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Accounts don't know anything about engineering. You have proved that. Would you like me to host a seminar for you and associates on engineering?

Urban Country Boy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Okay, so then tell us how you think this works? Be specific, show your work. Because everything indicates your take is… wrong.

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Accountants don't know anything about engineering. You have proved that. Would you like me to host a seminar for you and associates on engineering?

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500,000ags said:

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Absolutely stoopid. Water is important. Transparency from local officials is important. To say otherwise is just another way of burying your head to support your side.

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Really? Not sure where I said water wasn't important, but to cherry pick data centers (while griping on social media) is ridiculous.

If people are so up in arms they can stop using data, demand dries up and data centers stop being built. I get asking questions, wanting to be informed, but there is so much misinformation it's insane.

Don't use data? That's another stoopid take. People are well within their right to use the cloud and then not want multiple data centers jammed down their throat because Blackstone and Black Rock saw areas with no regulation and friendly city council members full of local business owners.

You want the benefits of data centers without data centers, that's a great take!

People are legitimately protesting data centers being built, not just in the backyard. Senators are calling for this as well, its absolutely ridiculous. But keep up with calling me "stoopid" when you are complaining about data centers on the internet, which is impossible without data centers, makes you look real intelligent.

Let's place all the high water consumption and polluting data centers where there are severe shortages of water. Effing brilliant.

How much land do you own? You live in the city?

pfo said:

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Thaddeus73 said:

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I think I agree....

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The highest, best use of land in a desert would be data centers. It's poor for agriculture, low population density so not very valuable for single family homes, low recreational value, not a lot of great scenery, little water.

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I would honestly like to know where you live and how you arrived at this 100% incorrect opinion.

Your equivocation is so dumb. Cloud storage for the internet has been fine, literally no one cared or cares. This is something so different with GPU hardware that is not needed to make the internet work. Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.

Wow, you are so uninformed, there are still countless sites being built for the cloud, even without AI the demand is still insane.

You are on the side of AOC, Bernie Sanders and China, good move.

I'm uniformed? Holy smokes. The ignorant really do talk a lot.

500,000ags said:

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I'm uniformed? Holy smokes. The ignorant really do talk a lot.

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I use AI and cloud services and I want all of the data centers to be gone. There, I said it. I don't want to live near one or see one.

If that means killing them all and going down to Kroger and getting an AOL disc for internet, so be it. I'll burn my important docs to a CD.

Crazy how this has become so political. But people cannot help themselves today.

What bothers me the most is it's city slickers telling us rural folks to get over it. We live in the country for peace and quiet. Put these ****ing centers in the middle if a *********neighborhood

Jbob04 said:

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What bothers me the most is it's city slickers telling us rural folks to get over it. We live in the country for peace and quiet. Put these ****ing centers in the middle if a *********neighborhood

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Used to have a very very noisy natgas compressor station on the ranch. I'd take a data center if theyre paying me 10's of millions

Jbob04 said:

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What bothers me the most is it's city slickers telling us rural folks to get over it. We live in the country for peace and quiet. Put these ****ing centers in the middle if a *********neighborhood

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Yep. I'm out in the country and they are bringing them so fast they can't keep up. It's easier to do these things in the country. Cheap land, ranchers wanting out of the business for big money, but mostly, very little regulation and permitting requirements so they can skirt a lot of stuff. Oh, and it's easier to prep a flat corn field than it is a city.

So much discussion on Data Centers. The press has a view. As mentioned before I am in design and construction. They are not all AI.

That being said we are working to reduce the impact on everything around us. Water has been significantly reduced.

If you have problems with data centers, shut down your phone, get rid of your computer, cut off your GPS, Netflix, YouTube, Instagram, Tiktok, everything.

Many here would turn their land and principles over in heartbeat if it meant China didn't have defense-minded AI first. Absolute joke being sold to gullible people so they support throwing out local-first beliefs.

You get paid to build these. Absolute shock that you have that stoopid take.