And without the 400 that Hyperscalers want to build in everyone's backyard.

500,000ags said:

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What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

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Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

500,000ags said:

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And without the 400 that Hyperscalers want to build in everyone's backyard.

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This is something we agree on. Never build next to a community or good farm land.

Urban Country Boy said:

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500,000ags said:

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What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

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Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

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You quite literally have offered nothing of substance and just yell at other people how they don't know what they are talking about and that they should get off the internet if they don't want to "listen to Urban Country Boy, he is the only one allowed to speak on data centers".

Plenty of open debates, discussions you could address. Quit yelling at people to "shush or GTFO".

flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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500,000ags said:

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What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

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Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

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You quite literally have offered nothing of substance and just yell at other people how they don't know what they are talking about and that they should get off the internet if they don't want to "listen to Urban Country Boy, he is the only one allowed to speak on data centers".

Plenty of open debates, discussions you could address. Quit yelling at people to "shush or GTFO".

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Yes sir Mr. Accountant. I will keep my 35 years with data centers to myself.

The Chinese government is actively aligned and subsidizing Chinese tech. They are building their electrical grid to be 7x what ours is. Their government has invested trillions into this.

Even if I take that as true, the US solution is to have a hodge podge of buildout driven by PE-backed companies that then partner with random city councils and municipalities? If that's the case, we're already screwed.

People will lose, corporations will win.

Hence I invest, as i make money through scammy corporations. That is the only way.

CEO's thank you

flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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500,000ags said:

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What do you think has changed about the internet and cloud usage that requires a sudden $Tn investment? I'll give you a hint: nothing. Nothing has changed. Regularly scheduled infrastructure is a big ol' nothing burger. Nobody cares. Put them under another Utah mountain or out in the wild.

Data centers are being built at this scale, with this hardware, for hyperscalers to provide AI compute. Has literally nothing to do with your constant argument of internet and cloud usage. What you're saying makes zero sense.

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Stop posting and get off the Internet. Until then you have no standing.

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You quite literally have offered nothing of substance and just yell at other people how they don't know what they are talking about and that they should get off the internet if they don't want to "listen to Urban Country Boy, he is the only one allowed to speak on data centers".

Plenty of open debates, discussions you could address. Quit yelling at people to "shush or GTFO".

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That's the standard comeback from people (especially the olds) who hate it when you are right and can't say something logical or sensible.

This is my last comment on this.

First, the commenters against data centers are using them daily. If you really want them down, turn everything off. Advances are being made that reduces water to almost nothing. Power is also being reduced or sites building their own plants.

We have been building data centers for 50 years (Before me). When you went to the ATM where did you think that went? Gas station, same.

We can stop building data centers. But can you live without them? No more Tiktok for you.

DCs will be in space in less than 5 years...

Urban Country Boy said:

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Anyone here that makes a comment about how they hate data centers are hypocrites. You really want to protest? Shut everything you do down. No Cell phone. No debit or credit card transactions. Walk into a bank for your balance. Only write checks. Dial from you home land line. Play games on your Atari.

And shut off your comments on a data center run site.

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Utterly irrelevant. We are all aware data centers have been around for years. You are conflating DCs for normal tech/comms vs the absolute hyper scaling demand by Big Tech to build out for AI.

Two totally different purposes. The demand for DC scaling for AI is such that it killed the climate change movement. Think about that for a minute and how incredible that is. Almost overnight Bill Gates abandoned his personal climate change movement for AI.

We can maintain all of the tech we've already had for decades without hyper scaling DCs to handle my Grok question. You would be better off taking the angle that we have to keep up with China rather than impacting what we already have available to us. That would at least be a plausible take.

All these words brought to you, by a datacenter

500,000ags said:

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And without the 400 that Hyperscalers want to build in everyone's backyard.

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Is that like having your own Bitcoin miner? Offload some of the data center AI work onto your own computer, make a few pennies a day?

It literally makes no sense that he keeps saying it. But, I created a Facebook for the first time a few months ago, and that is what all the pro-Data Center old people keep saying over, and over, and over. They literally have no clue what they are talking about...and it's also completely illogical as an argument. Don't want data centers, turn off your electricity. Yeah, okay, good one.

Wow, you may be the source of all misinformation. Unreal that you hsve been doing this all day, try enjoying a Saturday buddy.

Urban Country Boy said:

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500,000ags said:

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And without the 400 that Hyperscalers want to build in everyone's backyard.

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This is something we agree on. Never build next to a community or good farm land.

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Of the "farms" I have seen purchased and converted to data centers....

One is a former turf grass farm

Two were a ranches with poorly maintained fences and only occasionally had cattle

One was a neighboring ranch owned by a lawyer who raised enough hell that another data center bought him out

One was a ranch that had already been sold to a different developer with plans to put single-family homes on it.


I will say it again. Small farms have been declining since before Rick Perry was Ag Commissioner, and people somehow now decide data centers are the cause? Spare me the drama.

AxelFoley85 said:

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The Chinese government is actively aligned and subsidizing Chinese tech. They are building their electrical grid to be 7x what ours is. Their government has invested trillions into this.

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couldnt care less what China does.

For some, typing is not that hard. This is not something I will be letting go of because the moment this became political, you can see all the usuals spouting their over-confident nonsense. A guy two blocks over made a sign that said no to data centers. A week later I could see the political messaging come in. Within a week, he takes down the first sign and is now very pro-Data Center. It's absolute brainwashing on a subject that is hyper-local and should be non-political. I am not even anti- AI Data Center in general. I don't know what is being proposed in all locales, or what their resources look like. How anyone could see what's going on in El Paso or Corpus and just be yeah, that's all good, I cannot understand. Transparency and common sense should prevail for resources, not fear mongering of China's AI, the fact that AOC says whatever, or the fact that (for some inexplicable reason) being anti-new-age AI Data Center equivocates to anti-internet/cloud.

Buildings are being built, they have compute, you are obviously in the right to hate it, protest it, complain about it, what the hell ever.

But this has been going on for decades, and will continue to do so. Not trying to be a jerk, but you aren't stopping or slowing this down. Best thing to do is buy stock and make money.

This hardware has not been going up for decades at all. You don't even know what you are in favor of / indifferent to, which is fine, but also wild.

HTownAg98 said:

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You have to have reliable power and water infrastructure nearby. Hence why not every piece of dirt is suitable for a data center.

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So let the googles of the world build/finance a co located solar farm, wind farm, and battery storage to power it. They pay for it. The land is there. Done.

500,000ags said:

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This hardware has not been going up for decades at all. You don't even know what you are in favor of / indifferent to, which is fine, but also wild.

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You may need help, read what I wrote.

Coates said:

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Buildings are being built, they have compute, you are obviously in the right to hate it, protest it, complain about it, what the hell ever.

But this has been going on for decades, and will continue to do so. Not trying to be a jerk, but you aren't stopping or slowing this down. Best thing to do is buy stock and make money.

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And not live in those areas.

They're like refineries in a sense. They provide a resource for everyone, make money for many that are part of it, and are only a nuisance to those living near them.

Not living near them and they become nothing more than just another thing to talk about with others like any other topic of the moment.

Coates said:

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Buildings are being built, they have compute, you are obviously in the right to hate it, protest it, complain about it, what the hell ever.

But this has been going on for decades, and will continue to do so. Not trying to be a jerk, but you aren't stopping or slowing this down. Best thing to do is buy stock and make money.

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You are clearly paying zero attention to reality and are conflating historical requirements with an entirely different set of requirements we have now. I've already stated this once.

AI and the hyper scaling of data centers and their impact have been the #1 topic on CNBC for months. Aside from last 1-2 weeks I watch it every morning and have it on in the background. It's all they've been talking about. I've watched dozens of interviews with CEO's, analysts, etc on this topic and they all pretty much say the same thing. CNBC's emphasis on it is mostly from an investment standpoint and the impact on the markets with a secondary analysis on real world impacts and politics.

As a scale example, we weren't having conversations of Big Tech buying moth balled nuclear sites to power AI data farms before this massive change in the tech landscape. This is not business as usual in the DC world. It's a whole sale change in infrastructure and what is needed to power what all these people are telling us what has to happen to continue scaling.

Another one: consumer chips and other resources have gone up in price and shortages have increased all due solely to AI hyper scaling. This is common knowledge and fact. I had zero issue buying my custom PC rig 1+ year ago. It would be an issue now because of AI scaling; not because of historical DC compute building.

This is not even debatable and continuing to push a false narrative that "it's always been this way and this is just what compute is" is wrong.

We can have a separate debate on if what the "experts" are telling us is actually necessary and/or true, but there is no debate on the "why" of what's happening.

We should all be able to agree on that reality.

How do the physical space, power and cooling requirements compare for quantum computing?

Whilst I think the data center building is likely being overdone at the moment, the concerns and outrage against seem even more overdone as do the reactions to the outrage. Folks need to slow down and calm the **** down.

What if these data centers power AI solutions that improve farming and water purification / desalination. In theory they could be responsible for finding solutions to the concerns posted on this thread.

Is that rainbows and unicorn farts? May seem like it but having massive computing resources to pursue whatever thought comes mind is the promise of AI. Not replacing human thought and ingenuity, it enhances in much the same manner that the internet and the mass increase in digital content has enhanced availability of information and "knowledge" to varying degrees.

Tl;dr quit ****ting yourselves over AI is going to kill us all and snuff out remaining farmland as we lose to China and figure out how to use it and participate in a life with AI in it.

Quote:

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Whilst I think the data center building is likely being overdone at the moment, the concerns and outrage against seem even more overdone as do the reactions to the outrage. Folks need to slow down and calm the **** down.

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This is why I've asked a few times in this thread what the water and power requirements are for these new AI DC's. And have asked people who seem to be experts in the field to educate the rest of us on it.

This thread has a lot of bull**** in it.

Some pro DC people: "It's always been this way. Quit crying and buy all the land around you if you don't like it". Absurd take.
Some anti DC people: "AI is going to kill us all and we should stop all DC's". Not realistic.

I completely empathize with people who do not want a DC near them. I would not either. It would make me insane. My wife and I have the means to buffer ourselves from that (by buying house/land in an environment where a DC can't operate), but most people do not. As a staunch property rights advocate, I'm not sure what the answer is here. Do owners get the right to sell their land however they see fit? Or can they only sell their land with certain covenants? Some areas already have the latter in place.

I read it, it doesn't make sense. You are thinking of things as abstract because I guess these are not going up in your community. "So buy stock." But these are going up in communities, here in Texas, in some cases with no transparency and no disclosure of impact on resources. I mean opinions galore here, and I don't think most even know the difference between a CPU and GPU, that's wild.

Truth. We cannot even get answers on heat exchange methodology without someone spinning out thinking their livelihood is being hunted by angry villagers with pitchfork.

I can emit that open loop using evaporative cooling maybe uses less power and does not focus on water use and conservation as a primary objective.

Closed loops come in all sorts of varieties. Some of those, maybe most, focus on chilling the data center air chilling with is going to be somewhat inefficient. Immersion is more efficient from a heat exchange perspective (one time there was an epic thread on this website about icing down coolers and kegs). But since I have an accounting degree I was not welcome to discuss such things.

I think the question on the impact of quantum computing developments are having, will have and would rather maybe see direct opinions here versus Grok.

Hopefully some can put their dip****tedness aside and discuss. But this being f16 it's a tall order.

My point was there are thousands of data centers all over the country, no location is spared, and that most pople had no idea how many and the scale of what has already been built. And it seems odd for all of the pushback now, when the US already has thousands of data centers, consuming billions of gallons of water, and using dozens of GW of power.

And no one is disputing the growth, its insane and the industry cannot keep up. But to me they are basically warehouses and the only reason I wouldn't want one literally in my backyard is because they are ugly, again just my opinion.

Urban Country Boy said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Urban Country Boy said:

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Let's see. Yes, 35 years in data center design. We have come a long way. Did you really think all I know is from when I graduated? Who do you think helped progress the design? It was not an accountant that read a few articles.
You have zero knowledge in data center design and construction and it shows.

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Then how is it you are so uninformed on this? You keep up your vague attacks but do nothing to refute, explain, clarify, or anything.

What else would I reference other than the degree and year you graduated? If you were being sincere in discussion, you would have led with "I've been building data centers for 35 years" but instead you demanded to know my degree and year of graduation.

And now you have ignored two articles showing how you are representing your knowledge on the subject is not reflective of reality.

You may be hung up on some sort of semantical anomaly, but take a moment and gather your consider comments like you being unable to recover evaporated water vapor as fantastically… wrong.

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You have no idea how engineering works.

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If I had a dollar for every time I've had to say that to an accountant I'd never need an accountant.

Coates said:

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My point was there are thousands of data centers all over the country, no location is spared, and that most pople had no idea how many and the scale of what has already been built. And it seems odd for all of the pushback now, when the US already has thousands of data centers, consuming billions of gallons of water, and using dozens of GW of power.

And no one is disputing the growth, its insane and the industry cannot keep up. But to me they are basically warehouses and the only reason I wouldn't want one literally in my backyard is because they are ugly, again just my opinion.

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Because we were already facing critical water shortages and our energy infrastructure hasn't been upgraded in decades.

Water tidbits:

- More than 60% of the entire country is in drought conditions right now.

- Read the article I posted earlier on the disaster that is the CO River which 7 states depend on for water. The two backup reservoirs on that river have depleted by more than 75%.

- Corpus Christi and all of the communities tied into their water infrastructure are looking at actual dead pool outcomes if they can't figure out how to get more water online. And the only real solution for that is 4-5 years away without a hurricane parking over the coast. All the while Corpus announces two weeks ago that a new DC is being built. Any load whatsoever on their already catastrophically low water supply is about the worst optics you can have.

Energy tidbits:

- We've removed mainline production over the years and added unreliable green energy while ignoring nuclear energy.

- Most of the new DCs being built are being put in a handful of states with the infrastructure to actually support them so factor the massive increased density and centralization of all of these DC's being built in the same few states.

Public Awareness:

- Now factor all of the talk in the media over the past 1-2 years over AI which has driven every online and print news organization on almost a daily basis for that time period and you will see why so many people are pushing back now when they did not in the past. There is some level of self-fulfilling prophecy here that all of this exciting AI talk by Big Tech has subsequently rallied people against their cause because our underlying ability to support it is shaky as hell.

What's being built, where they're being built, the purpose of why they're being built, who is suddenly approving what's being built, the scale of funding for what's being built, and the pace of build out has all materially changed over the last 18 months. How does that not process that maybe the situation with legacy data centers are different and why no one gave a crap previously?

The new thing to be a victim about. Low iq

The water nonsense is especially amusing. You've got to be on the extreme wrong side of the bell curve