MBA Advice

33,988 Views | 110 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by jespy
ChemEAg08
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Not sure if it moves you into upper management "sooner", but gives you the credentials to be reviewed when an opportunity comes up (at least at a big company).
jamaggie06
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Thanks for the response!

Kickoff weekend is next week! Then, in two weeks, the week long "immersion." (So long vacation days...)

And you said you went to O&G, I'm assuming pre-MBA you were already working downstream and now you are working at an upstream company?
Diggity
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Shoot me an email if you want to talk about the program. I'm starting my second year in a few weeks.

scottrose@gmail.com
AggiEE
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jamaggie06 said:

Thats why I asked what your starting salary was.

WTF? I started out at $60k as a graduate engineer.

This just reinforces the troubling notion I've come to accept. Engineers are grossly underpaid.

Given the numbers your talking about, it sounds like new grads in other fields are making way more than I imagined. One of the main reasons I'm considering a career change.

On $60k a year, even if there hadnt been a great recession, theres no way I could have saved $20k a year after taxes in addition to a 401k coming out of school.

Kudos to you if a) you can or b) you're making substantially more than $60k straight out of school.

Another question, what are the benefits of an MBA for someone who already has a finance degree and is in IB already? Does it move you into upper management quicker or are you intending to change paths (entrepenuer?)?


Saving 20k per year should be easily achievable in a starting engineer's salary.

I decided against the MBA and have saved many multiples of my salary in less than a decade of work.

It depends on your goals. I wanted to stay in technical management, where an MBA is less relevant than more work experience.

Could I make more coming out of an MBA program? Certainly so if we're just comparing total comp between coveted positions like IB and consulting; however that compensation comes at the cost of the time commitment of work. For other industries/general management? Probably not.

I'd also have $270k or so more in investments by not going back full time. At a conservative 4% real return, that's equivalent to another $15K+ in passive compensation annually.

Ultimately, I wasn't sold on the consulting/IB lifestyle, and my goal was more aligned with quickly achieving financial independence, so there didn't appear to be an ROI. My goal now is to keep working but earning more money is less important once you become FI, the goal then shifts to having greater QOL (more time), while still earning enough to cover basic living expenses while your nest egg compounds, save a bit more, and have health insurance.
ChemEAg08
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Pre-MBA, I was at a standalone chemical company. Post MBA, I'm in downstream/chemicals of which many chemicals we sell back upstream. Not to confuse things...
jamaggie06
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My 22 month journey starts Friday! I'm excited!
ChemEAg08
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Congrats! I didn't the weekend MBA, and my biggest complaint was that I wish I had 4-8 hrs a week to freeze time to fully soak in all the case studies. Unfortunately, when your working and end up have 2 kids, that time gets prioritized elsewhere...

Soak it in and let us know how it's going....
jamaggie06
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Wow! So immersion week is not next week but the week after. Had no idea that it was literally going to be an all day/all night affair. I knew it was 7:30-6:30, but then you have to work witg your group to complete the assignments that night.

I'm glad I am where I am in life, bc I have no idea how the married folks with children are going to do it. I dont know if the purpose of this weekend was to make everyone worry about the time commitment required, but they sure were right in saying they it was going to make a lot of us question what we got ourselves into!

But, they were very positive, encouraging and adamant that we could all do it.

I have talked to a few people who have done professional programs, and I have heard that it can and will put a strain on your personal relationships. I have discussed all this with my wife, and she is with me, but I know I will have to work extra hard to keep our marriage strong.

Any thoufhts or opinions on this matter from those who did a professional program and were/are married?
Diggity
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I would be happy to chat or meet up with you. I'll be on campus again later in the month.
jamaggie06
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On campus... as in Rice campus? Are you a second year? And, sure, I'd love to take you up on that offer.

BTW, Aggies were the largest represented group among the MBA professionals.

Plus, the Jones School is full of Aggies! From the Dean to the student program office.
ChemEAg08
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Yes, I give a lot of credit to my wife as she had a bit of the raw deal with the MBA (we started with 0 kids and ended with 2). There were a number of nights she'd go to bed while I was going homework and for all of my professional MBA, we were in separate cities when I was in class. But after God, there were three major things: family, work and class. Unfortunately, the MBA was the one receiving less time than desired, but I still learned a lot from it and am happy with how it went.
ChemEAg08
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And as funny as it was, there were more Ag undergrads at tu's professional program in Houston than their were tu undergrads.
Diggity
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Yes sir.
TriAg2010
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Ridge14 said:

jamaggie06 said:

So, in four years of working, you're going to have 100k saved u?. In addition to retirement savings? Any current student loans?

As a fresh graduate, what kind of salary are you getting already?


Not really all that tough or unbelievable IMO.
You do realize that most people have less than $100K savings at retirement, right? Having that bankroll four years out of school is extremely impressive and not easy.
jamaggie06
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Diggity, will you be on campus this coming weekend? We have class Friday and Saturday, but I will be at PCF.
Diggity
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sorry, don't check this board very often.

I'm there Mondays and Wednesdays right now.

shoot me an email if you want to meet up before class

scottrose@gmail.com
jamaggie06
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You can drop your email now.
RightWingConspirator
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jamaggie06 said:

So you know many mid-career folks who have done what you said, or just mainly the 23-25 year old crowd?

I mean, you can use those numbers, but, if you don't pay your mortgage for two years because you have no income... it doesn't matter what the NPV is. I get that it's a fixed operating cost. My point is, somehow, you have to come up with cash to cover those fixed operating costs for two years (unfortunately, I'm not like some companies and can't just fund myself from the equity markets in perpetuity). That's a bit different than paying those fixed operating costs with actual cash flow.

But again, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match. I looked at the full time program and I don't see anyway it's possible except for those very young and with very few if any financial and or familial commitments.
I quit my job and went back to Rice for their full-time MBA program when I was 31. I had a wife and child at the time. My wife was a stay-at-home mother (still is) and stayed at home for the duration of my two-year program. We had saved all of her salary while she was still working (before we had a child) and lived off of my income alone. We lived off of that saved money and my internship money throughout the two-year program. We started out with about 30k in savings, I made about 20k over my MBA internship, and when I graduated we had about 1.5k left to our name (not including 401k, etc.) We made it work. I had to take on debt for books and tuition, but we did not take on debt for living expenses. My wife babysat another family's child and that brought in about 500-700/month which helped some.

There is an element of luck when you go back to grad school. There are some things that are completely out of your control. The economy into which you graduate? Completely out of your control. For me, going back to grad school was very beneficial. I more than doubled my $62k/year salary in my first year out of grad school. I paid off all of my undergrad and graduate student loans within 3 years of graduation. Over the course of the last 11 years, we've saved well over a million dollars and now have a net worth north of a million. We have no debt whatsoever save for my home, but we could pay that off right now if we chose to. We're not where we need to be financially just yet, but we're making very good progress.

My point is if you plan correctly and catch a little bit of luck, going back to grad school can still make plenty of good sense even for those over the age of 30, but for every success story like mine, there are more than one that didn't end as favorably; hence, the luck of which I wrote.
Token
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That's what's up
jamaggie06
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Not doubting you. Wasn't saying it couldn't be done, but you lived as a family of three for two years on a total of $50k?

I guess thats my point. If you're in your thirties and that's something your willing to do, by all means.

But I am curious, where you actually lived during those two years. I mean, there aren't many places I would feel comfortable living by myself in Houston that are less than $1000 a month in rent, yet alone a neighborhood or place I'd be comfortable living in with my wife and a child.

But, I am glad it paid off for you. But I think the calculus is different for me given that my current income was already over six figures. That's a bit harder to walk away from for two years and I absolutely w/o a doubt would in no way have been willing to do a full time program.

I appreciate your story and it does show that it can be done. As I alluded to, I doubt many thirty plus folks are taking the same route. Ten percent? Fifteen percent? I don't know. I can only speak to the people I know in the program which are all professional students.

BTW, where are you working now?
RightWingConspirator
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Believe it or not, we lived in The Woodlands the entire time I was in grad school. I purchased a townhouse when I graduated A&M and took a job in Houston. It was a brand new townhouse right off of 242 that I purchased for $100,000; hence, we lived in a very safe neighborhood and my mortgage with taxes and everything was no more than ~$1,100/month. While we weren't in the lap of luxury, our place was nice, clean, safe, and ours.

Yes, the $50,000 lasted over two years, and when I graduated, we took the $1500 and vacationed in Colorado! I took my $20,000 sign-on bonus and immediately paid off all of my private loans. It can be done, but it takes careful planning, coupon clipping, etc.

I work for a major. Don't want to be any more specific than that on a message board.

I will say the commute back and forth from Rice was a real grinder. I tried different things, but the most grueling was take my car down to the 1960 park and ride. Get off in downtown, walk over to Main Street, take the train to Rice, get off at Rice and walk clear across campus every day, and did the reverse on the way home. I did that for at least a year, but we were intent on not borrowing more than what we absolutely had to.

We made the sacrifices necessary and it paid off big for us. My job has moved us to various locations including Singapore. We also made some savvy investments and pocketed entire bonuses, relocation packages, etc. which have all helped us get to the point we're at financially.
jamaggie06
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Thats fantastic to hear! Im close by Rice currently, but there several folks coming from the Woodlands.

And when did you buy/sell in the woodlands?! Is there anything up there for $100,000 anymore? I admit, I haven't looked and I don't know much about whats there or was there except the Exxon campus and big expensive houses.

I wouldnt mind traveling, but the wife woukd not be on board. I think the only place shed be interested in is NY, and shed want to live in Manhattan...
Diggity
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you'll be closer to $200K than $100K for any newish townhome in the woodlands.
RightWingConspirator
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Yes, the days of $100k townhouses in The Woodlands are over. We purchased new back in 2001 and sold it seven years later for a modest $21,000 gain.
jamaggie06
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Uh....first semester is a beating. There's literally not enough time in the week to due everything asked. At least, not the quality I normally hold myself to.

About four weeks ago, when it really started piling up, my wife said, "you have to do homework downstairs. I don't se you at all otherwise."

And that's been the consensus among classmates as well. I don't know how those with children do it.

I'd like to think it can only get better next semester but I hear conflicting reports.

Anyway, diatribe over. I don't regret it all and i have learned a lot.
Noble07
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How much time outside of class do you average per week?
I've been thinking of applying next year but I have kids so it might not be a good idea for me.
jamaggie06
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The last six weeks it has been come home, maybe take an hour to just relax then hit the homework and assignments. Maybe get another hour to relax at the end of the night but thats it.

While the off weekends have been designated time for Wife, I still end up doing some readings or assignments those weekends.

I don't know if I said it before, but I had to stop doing schoolwork in the study; my wife said "I never see you. You leave for work before I get up and go to the study and I don't see you before bed." So, I do school work in the living/dining room now.

So, I'd estimate 20+ hours a week. If you have kids, make sure your spouse is supportive and understands the time commitment. And myself personally and my group aren't pulling out straight A's...
ChemEAg08
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Oh memories (been over 3 years since I finished)... yeah, it is a lot easier without kids, but when we had our first, it was 1. Work all day, 2. Dinner and bath/bed for the kid and 3. Study for at least 2 hours 4. Go to bed with my wife already sleeping. It helped for me because my wife ended up staying at home with our kids so more time, but less $$$ contributing the the cost.

I will say that after the 1st semester you'll get in a rhyth and it'll be easier. Keep us updated!
OldFashioned
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Diggity
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Second year is better depending on your electives.

The only annoying thing is the silly weekend "core classes" they throw in. The Ethics/Communications ILE's are useless.

Good luck!
OldFashioned
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jamaggie06
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Second semester starts in two weeks. Been enjoying the little bit of downtime we have for Christmas break. Did better than I expected this semester. Hope next semester goes as well.
jamaggie06
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Just completed the first year. About to head to Argentina for what Rice calls Global Field Experience, or GFE. Damn, it's been a ride and it has flown by. It just better be worth it...
Noble07
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Any plans for what you want to do when you graduate next year? Stay at current company? Or are you hoping to move?

What do most of your classmates plan on doing? I'm thinking about applying this year. I've wondered if a lot of people in the professional program are attending on their company's dime. If that's the case I figure there wouldn't be much recruitment for the professional MBA grads.

jamaggie06
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At Rice at least, it definitely is more "you can have access to our recruiting tools, but we're not going to actively help you like we do the full timers."

As far as what percentage are employer sponsored, ballpark guess, 50%. A decent number plan to change careers or companies and since most companies require commitments upon receipt of financial aid, that doesn't really make sense.

As for me, I am open to staying at my conpany but I am looking at my options. I plan to investigate opportunities, especially within the financial sector, far more aggressively this second year.
 
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