AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

I think they will still make DSLRs, but the focus is definitely on mirrorless. Sony does better at video than Canon or Nikon and mirrorless is made for video. Plus Nikon and Canon are hands down better for DSLRs, so Sony goes with the thing that Nikon and Canon can't compete.

---

Like 20fps and almost 1000 focus points????

And the lack of 40 year old casio watch LCD screen Canon still uses?

---

A billion focus points don't help if they aren't fast and accurate. I really only use about 15 different focus points.

The main benefit of mirrorless is that the focus points can be spread out better than in DSLRs, but DSLRs still haven't been passed on focus speed, accuracy and retaining focus on moving objects.

Agreed. Even as a Sony shooter (a7rII and a6500) I'd rather they have fewer focus points that are freaking nails than infinitythreeve focus points that don't quite get me what I need.

Then again I'm not much of a sports/wedding shooter and usually have enough time to account for the lack of AF speed.

Granted Sony lacks the professional support of Canikon and the pros shooting sports won't be jumping anytime soon if at all. But I applaud Sony's innovation. I love the eye follow focus with my a6300 and sigma art lens. My u43 does that also but not as well.

A9 I believe will give Canikon's flagship bodies a run I believe.. sure no 300mm 2.8 nor 400mm 2.8 yet but before Sony can release it, they need make sure they have a body that photogs can trust.

A9 focus seems impressive. Watch the comparison between 1DXII vs a9, starting from 3:40 minute mark. 80 good shots vs. 132 of Sony. 20 fps, 1/32,000 shutter speed, higher recording buffer, and no blackout viewfinder during shooting? Great innovations and I hope Canikon execs are scratching their heads.

3:40 mark.

bthotugigem05 said:

---

Agreed. Even as a Sony shooter (a7rII and a6500) I'd rather they have fewer focus points that are freaking nails than infinitythreeve focus points that don't quite get me what I need.

Then again I'm not much of a sports/wedding shooter and usually have enough time to account for the lack of AF speed.

---

We eagerly await your hands on experience review of a9.

dubi said:

---

Oh My!

---

Which Oh My...

I'm trying to get a press copy to review!

Another thing to consider about Sony e-mount.. is that most EF lenses work on Sony.

I'm sure Sony feels ambivalent. Yes, EF lenses work well enough to sway some Canon users to convert yet they don't want it to work too well that the Canon users don't buy Sony native lenses.

Metabones and Sigma MC-11 work fairly well but I feel like we are just a few steps away before these adapters will allow EF lenses to work almost like G-master lenses.

Sigma art with with MC-11 comes quite close.

I've used Sony with adapters and the speed and focusing isn't there.

If I was doing all landscape and/or architecture, I would probably shoot Sony mirrorless for those so I could use the Nikon 14-24 and the Canon Tilt Shifts. Plus the sensors are much better than what is available with Canon.

The Sony ergonomics just aren't there, especially on the mirrorless. Plus the ever present battery problem. Mirrorless eat batteries.

And while the size savings could be nice, you really don't gain that much over a competing DSLR.

A9+24-70 = 673g+886g

D750+24-70= 750+900g

So you save 91 grams of weight - or about 3oz. About the same weight as one of the extra batteries you will have to carry.


The main reason I wouldn't switch is the support. All the secondary brands support CaNikon first. Then you have the used equipment. Really easy to find just about any used gear or if you are in a pinch, get a battery or other accessory just about anywhere.

Then there is repairs. CaNikon have much more in place to support repairs.

I think the comparison Sony hopes people make is against the 1DXii and the D5, where the difference is almost comical size-wise.

Guitarsoup said:

---

I've used Sony with adapters and the speed and focusing isn't there.

If I was doing all landscape and/or architecture, I would probably shoot Sony mirrorless for those so I could use the Nikon 14-24 and the Canon Tilt Shifts. Plus the sensors are much better than what is available with Canon.

The Sony ergonomics just aren't there, especially on the mirrorless. Plus the ever present battery problem. Mirrorless eat batteries.

And while the size savings could be nice, you really don't gain that much over a competing DSLR.

A9+24-70 = 673g+886g

D750+24-70= 750+900g

So you save 91 grams of weight - or about 3oz. About the same weight as one of the extra batteries you will have to carry.


The main reason I wouldn't switch is the support. All the secondary brands support CaNikon first. Then you have the used equipment. Really easy to find just about any used gear or if you are in a pinch, get a battery or other accessory just about anywhere.

---

I think focusing with adapter will continuously get better.

Sony Claims a9 battery has 2.2x capacity than before whatever that means. And with a grip with 2 batteries.. 4x capacity will be nice, and it can potentially help the ergonomics.

With Sony FF, I think size benefit is negligible as native lenses are just as big as L-lenses.

No doubt Sony is expensive and the used market isn't as robust. But it's getting bigger as more older Sony bodies and lenses are showing up on FM.. POTN...etc. But this is no different than there really aren't that many used 1DXII, 200-400mm.. 400mm F2.8II on the market.

I'm not a Sony fan boy as I couldn't get rid of my A7r fast enough.

But I love what Sony is doing...and I would love to see how Canikon will respond.

With silent 20fps, blackout free viewfinder, and 1/32,000 shutter speed with better follow focus than 1DXII (if true), then you got a serious contender.

Slowly but surely Sony is starting to challenge.. and if that makes Canon better, then it's good for the consumers. When will Canon get rid of that Casio LCD screen??????

bthotugigem05 said:

---

I think the comparison Sony hopes people make is against the 1DXii and the D5, where the difference is almost comical size-wise.

---

Yeah...but with lens attached.. almost negligible.

bthotugigem05 said:

---

I think the comparison Sony hopes people make is against the 1DXii and the D5, where the difference is almost comical size-wise.

---

I'm sure Sony would like that compairson more, but you get benefit out of the additional size, too.

If you shoot a lot of vertical work, having a vertical grip helps a tremendous amount and makes the Sony even worse ergonomically.

Plus the much, much better battery. I can shoot all day for two days in a row without changing my D5 battery. 8-10k shots easy without changing batteries even though my batteries are 3-4 years old.

The Sony A9 gives you 480 shots while using the viewfinder. So you are looking at having to carry 16-20 batteries to shoot the same amount.

I also think the weight balance is awkward with the bigger lenses.

Again, there are some benefits for mirrorless, but I think the benefits aren't all that great for the pros that aren't focusing on Landscape/Architecture.

Quote:

---

No doubt Sony is expensive and the used market isn't as robust. But it's getting bigger as more older Sony bodies and lenses are showing up on FM.. POTN...etc. But this is no different than there really aren't that many used 1DXII, 200-400mm.. 400mm F2.8II on the market.

---

For Nikon, there are tons of 200-400s on the market and with Canon and Nikon, you can get previous model lenses, which is great. The newer ones pop up enough on SportsShooter that anyone that wanted one would have no problem getting it.

For Sony, you can't even get a 400 2.8, so that kind of eliminates that.

Quote:

---

But I love what Sony is doing...and I would love to see how Canikon will respond.

---

I think your main problem is that CaNikon don't want to give up their lens mount and have THREE lens mounts (Crop, FF and Mirrorless.) They want something that focuses quick that uses their current lenses. That's a physics problem.

Quote:

---

With silent 20fps, blackout free viewfinder, and 1/32,000 shutter speed with better follow focus than 1DXII (if true), then you got a serious contender.

---

1/32000 doesn't do anything for me. If i am shooting in direct sun, iso50, 1/8000th 1.4 is fine if I need to be wide open.

Canon is not who I would benchmark my follow focus on, just saying. I didn't have the 1DX2 obviously, but I could show you some embarrassing examples from the 1D2, 1D3, 1D4, 1DX and 5D3. Canon's a little better at snapping to focus (depending on lens) but generally not as good as retaining it on a moving object.

If I wanted 20fps, I would go to Video. Cinema standard is 24fps. Even on the top end cameras that do 11-16fps, I generally move them back to 10fps. Only real benefit would be with trying to get a bat on the ball in baseball. An extra frame or two could be nice there. But the more FPS you have there, the more your follow focus is going to suffer.

I don't know man... Tony Northrup gives thumbs up for capturing more action shots to 1DXII but gives slight edge to D5 for 3D focus. But he's a sip...what does he know.

I'm ready to see what a9 can do with Canon 400mm f2.8II with metabones.

So far...with a limited info, a9 fares better than 1DXII with 70-200mm f2.8, with their respective native lenses. I'm just an hobbyist and it will be 3 years from now before I pick up an a9 or 1DXII, if at all.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

I don't know man... Tony Northrup gives thumbs up for capturing more action shots to 1DXII but gives slight edge to D5 for 3D focus. But he's a sip...what does he know.

I'm ready to see what a9 can do with Canon 400mm f2.8II with metabones.

So far...with a limited info, a9 fares better than 1DXII with 70-200mm f2.8, with their respective native lenses. I'm just an hobbyist and it will be 3 years from now before I pick up an a9 or 1DXII, if at all.

---

Tony gets paid to say that.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

I don't know man... Tony Northrup gives thumbs up for capturing more action shots to 1DXII but gives slight edge to D5 for 3D focus. But he's a sip...what does he know.

I'm ready to see what a9 can do with Canon 400mm f2.8II with metabones.

So far...with a limited info, a9 fares better than 1DXII with 70-200mm f2.8, with their respective native lenses. I'm just an hobbyist and it will be 3 years from now before I pick up an a9 or 1DXII, if at all.

---

I beg to differ. You are an early adopter and I am a hobbiest with a Canon 70D (open box) and some used Canon L lenses from Guitarsoup.

The difference is I spend much less on my gear and am very slow to switch. I used my last Rebel for 9 years before switching. If I am getting the shots I want in the few hours a month i get behind the camera, I'm unwilling to spend $$$$$.

Another Sony Artisan,

Seeing some info that battery life goes beyond 1,000 shots...

dubi said:

---

I beg to differ. You are an early adopter and I am a hobbiest with a Canon 70D (open box) and some used Canon L lenses from Guitarsoup.

The difference is I spend much less on my gear and am very slow to switch. I used my last Rebel for 9 years before switching. If I am getting the shots I want in the few hours a month i get behind the camera, I'm unwilling to spend $$$$$.

---

Well... all relative...

I usually wait 3 years.. for the price to drop some.

I have a buddy who has to have the newest release.. But he eventually gave up after 1DX.

dubi said:

---

dubi said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

70-200 would be an excellent choice.

---

I borrowed Guitarsoup's 70-200 2.8 last week and have been very pleased.

---

---

Gosh Dubi...

Were you going for a blurry look????

I did notice the Sony hands on test event included mostly summer and winter Olympic sports as the sample for photographers. With the Winter Olympics in South Korea next year and then Summer Olympics in Tokyo in 2020, we will see how serious Sony is in supporting the pros.

Tony Northrup has been wanting a camera like this for years, of coarse he likes it.

tk for tu juan said:

---

I did notice the Sony hands on test event included mostly summer and winter Olympic sports as the sample for photographers. With the Winter Olympics in South Korea next year and then Summer Olympics in Tokyo in 2020, we will see how serious Sony is in supporting the pros.

Tony Northrup has been wanting a camera like this for years, of coarse he likes it.

---

Sony will definitely need low light telephoto lenses in 300 mm to 500 mm range. You make a good point about the Olympics, and I hope to see more G-Master lens release. And there's a reason why Sony has surpassed Nikon as the #2 FF camera manufacturer. Evidently they listened. Not necessarily to Northrup only, but many mirror-less users wanting FF. They delivered. We also wanted better AF tracking. Better battery life.

Imagine a Pro sports photog who can immediately deliver a 10 second clip of tack sharp sports defining moments in 20 fps images aided by the lack of viewfinder blackout unlike DSLR and its mirror blackout. It will be interesting.

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

tk for tu juan said:

---

I did notice the Sony hands on test event included mostly summer and winter Olympic sports as the sample for photographers. With the Winter Olympics in South Korea next year and then Summer Olympics in Tokyo in 2020, we will see how serious Sony is in supporting the pros.

Tony Northrup has been wanting a camera like this for years, of coarse he likes it.

---

Sony will definitely need low light telephoto lenses in 300 mm to 500 mm range. You make a good point about the Olympics, and I hope to see more G-Master lens release. And there's a reason why Sony has surpassed Nikon as the #2 FF camera manufacturer. Evidently they listened. Not necessarily to Northrup only, but many mirror-less users wanting FF. They delivered. We also wanted better AF tracking. Better battery life.

Imagine a Pro sports photog who can immediately deliver a 10 second clip of tack sharp sports defining moments in 20 fps images aided by the lack of viewfinder blackout unlike DSLR and its mirror blackout. It will be interesting.

---

Sony hasn't really overtaken Nikon on FF sales.

Mirror blackout really isn't a problem for shooting sports.

If you paid attention to the Olympics last go-round, the guys were delivering images and having them on the wire within seconds of the picture being taken.

The reason is that the 1DX2 and D5/D4 have an ethernet jack so as soon as the pic is taken, it is transmitted to the editor, who publishes it. Camera WiFi isn't fast enough or strong enough.

The a9 has the same.

But does it have a port to trigger the camera remotely? At big events like the Kentucky Derby, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, Olympics, etc the cameras are hardwired - not triggered with pocket wizards - because there is too much interference at those events. So one port coming in to trigger the camera and a separate ethernet port going out to the computer.

I think it's just one Ethernet port.

The Flagship CaNikons only have one ethernet port, but they have a separate shutter release port as well as a flash sync port and some random other things.

Just looked at my D500 since it is out. D500 = flagship crop body for sports.

On the side:

USB 3
Mic, Headphones
HDMI

On the front:
Flash Sync
10-Pin shutter release

Doesn't have ethernet, but the USB 3 can be wired to an ethernet line.

Here's the side of the a9

Pretty soon it is gonna degrade to whose wanger is bigger!

Everybody has their own dream camera!

Guitarsoup said:

---

But does it have a port to trigger the camera remotely? At big events like the Kentucky Derby, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, Olympics, etc the cameras are hardwired - not triggered with pocket wizards - because there is too much interference at those events. So one port coming in to trigger the camera and a separate ethernet port going out to the computer.

---

mmm... Sony don't need no port for that...

Sony Smart Remote Control App with Android and IOS takes care of it....

AggieDruggist89 said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

But does it have a port to trigger the camera remotely? At big events like the Kentucky Derby, Super Bowl, NBA Finals, Olympics, etc the cameras are hardwired - not triggered with pocket wizards - because there is too much interference at those events. So one port coming in to trigger the camera and a separate ethernet port going out to the computer.

---

mmm... Sony don't need no port for that...

Sony Smart Remote Control App with Android and IOS takes care of it....

---

Not going to work at big events. Canon and Nikon have similar apps, bit pros hardwire for a reason. It's a huge pain, but it is necessary.

Sony RM-VPR 1 is the hardwire remote shutter release that works with Sony A7 if you must hardwire it. So it's available if remote app is not an option. About $70.

Something like that, but the wire would be super long.

When I worked on the SI team for the Kentucky Derby, we had something like 45 cameras set up with different people triggering different ones at different times based on the location of the horses. All are on buttons. And you can't be anywhere near the cameras because it spooks the horses. Dozens if not hundreds of feet away.