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Texas Biathalon (Run and Gun) is outdoors

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BenderRodriguez
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Did yall know Texas/Oklahoma is the mecca of a pretty neat shooting sport?

Run and Gun is a 2 gun match (pistol/rifle) with shooting stages scattered along a distance course. Some matches have physical obstacles like walls, rope climbs, etc, some just depend on the terrain to provide physical challenges. You bring everything you're going to need for the course with you from the start (no stopping to top off with more ammo along the way). Your score is an average of your run time and your shooting time/score.

It's been on my list of "want to try" for a couple years now, and I finally ran my first one this weekend at the Old Eighteen Defense Farrell Run and Gun outside of Meridian.

It was advertised as a 10k with 7 shooting stages. Wound up being about 8 miles with 700 feet or so of elevation change. Longest rifle target was 640 yards (that stage was naturally about 6 miles into the course up the longest hill climb of the event). There were no walkthroughs, every stage was blind other than a brief picture showing number of targets that you got to examine when you arrived at the stage. No distances listed, targets were sometimes in shaded tree lines, next to no shoot targets, etc and every stage had a maximum time limit.

It was an absolutely outstanding challenge physically and mentally. Knowing your holdovers, estimating ranges, efficiency in getting in/out of positions, rifle/pistol transitions, being able to shoot while physically exhausted, being able to make accurate shots under time pressure...it was fantastic.

Cannot recommend this enough to yall. If you want to test yourself and your equipment....there's not a whole lot else out there like this (besides Cola Warrior). Plus you get to run around on rich people's 1800+ acre Texas ranches and enjoy how amazingly beautiful Texas is....and then shoot stuff. It's great.

Took this picture at sunrise before the safety brief:


Took this picture from the top of the hill before the long range stage. Red pencil is the route you ran from stage 5 up to stage 6 here. This was the only picture I took on course. Was too busy shooting or sucking wind otherwise.



My shooting gear for the match: Rifle with 1-8, Glock with RMR, Chest rig for ammo/medical/water/multitool. Was just over 25 lbs at the start line. Thankfully you can lighten the load by being a bad shot and burning through some extra ammo. I could have gamer'd it and run as light as possible (no tools, no medical, less ammo), but that's not really the point of this kind of event for me.



This was my first run and gun, but absolutely will not be my last. Learned too much, had too much fun. If yall have any questions on how to get into it, about the gear I used, whatever, let me know. I finished in the 30s out of 118 shooters, but the three guys I went with all finished in the top 15 so I have some chasing to do.
AgDad121619
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BenderRodriguez said:

Did yall know Texas/Oklahoma is the mecca of a pretty neat shooting sport?

Run and Gun is a 2 gun match (pistol/rifle) with shooting stages scattered along a distance course. Some matches have physical obstacles like walls, rope climbs, etc, some just depend on the terrain to provide physical challenges. You bring everything you're going to need for the course with you from the start (no stopping to top off with more ammo along the way). Your score is an average of your run time and your shooting time/score.

It's been on my list of "want to try" for a couple years now, and I finally ran my first one this weekend at the Old Eighteen Defense Farrell Run and Gun outside of Meridian.

It was advertised as a 10k with 7 shooting stages. Wound up being about 8 miles with 700 feet or so of elevation change. Longest rifle target was 640 yards (that stage was naturally about 6 miles into the course up the longest hill climb of the event). There were no walkthroughs, every stage was blind other than a brief picture showing number of targets that you got to examine when you arrived at the stage. No distances listed, targets were sometimes in shaded tree lines, next to no shoot targets, etc and every stage had a maximum time limit.

It was an absolutely outstanding challenge physically and mentally. Knowing your holdovers, estimating ranges, efficiency in getting in/out of positions, rifle/pistol transitions, being able to shoot while physically exhausted, being able to make accurate shots under time pressure...it was fantastic.

Cannot recommend this enough to yall. If you want to test yourself and your equipment....there's not a whole lot else out there like this (besides Cola Warrior). Plus you get to run around on rich people's 1800+ acre Texas ranches and enjoy how amazingly beautiful Texas is....and then shoot stuff. It's great.

Took this picture at sunrise before the safety brief:


Took this picture from the top of the hill before the long range stage. Red pencil is the route you ran from stage 5 up to stage 6 here. This was the only picture I took on course. Was too busy shooting or sucking wind otherwise.



My shooting gear for the match: Rifle with 1-8, Glock with RMR, Chest rig for ammo/medical/water/multitool. Was just over 25 lbs at the start line. Thankfully you can lighten the load by being a bad shot and burning through some extra ammo. I could have gamer'd it and run as light as possible (no tools, no medical, less ammo), but that's not really the point of this kind of event for me.



This was my first run and gun, but absolutely will not be my last. Learned too much, had too much fun. If yall have any questions on how to get into it, about the gear I used, whatever, let me know. I finished in the 30s out of 118 shooters, but the three guys I went with all finished in the top 15 so I have some chasing to do.

that sounds really awesome
Animal Eight 84
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AG
I'm impressed, sounds like a great sport!
Looking forward to the next post.

Just curious, why so much pistol ammo vs another rifle mag, is that a typical loadout ?
ttha_aggie_09
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Great shooting and you must be in pretty decent shape to pull that kind of a run/jog off!

Is there an organization that puts this together? Any rules to join? Sounds like it would pair well with training for a western hunt in the mountains (running with gear and shooting under duress/fatigue).
Jason C.
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May 21-22 looks like next event?

https://www.oedefense.com/series-events

This looks like the greatest thing I've ever seen. This is like my childhood except with real guns. Thanks, Bender!!!
BreNayPop
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That actually sounds awesome. It's be a good reason for me to get back into shape
Jason C.
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BenderRodriguez said:


My shooting gear for the match: Rifle with 1-8, Glock with RMR, Chest rig for ammo/medical/water/multitool. Was just over 25 lbs at the start line. Thankfully you can lighten the load by being a bad shot and burning through some extra ammo. I could have gamer'd it and run as light as possible (no tools, no medical, less ammo), but that's not really the point of this kind of event for me.




So that's six pistol magazines and four rifle? You're a pretty good shot on your other posts, so how did you feel about amount of ammo carried? What kind of chest rig is that?
BenderRodriguez
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Going to try to answer a couple common questions in one post.

Course description before the event only said 50 hits required for both rifle and pistol, targets out to 500 or 600. I haven't had a lot of range time lately, so I wanted more opportunities for make up shots. Figured nothing would be worse than running 5 miles then not being able to shoot because I didn't want to add 1 pound of extra ammo to my load. So I carried 5 30 round 5.56 magazines for 150 rounds and 6 Glock mags (3/17 and 3/24) for 123 rounds. Picture just doesn't show magazines well, I had 3 rifle in chest rig, 2 more stacked in the general purpose pouch on one side, with a 16 oz nalgene in the opposite pouch.

Here's a broken apart picture that might help explain chest rig a little more.



At its base, its a Spiritus Mk4 Microfight chest rig. The great thing about the Micro is how modular it is. It's all velcro inside and out. I can set it up for nothing but 6 AR mags on the small microfight, or a mix of AR/pistol, or even PCC magazines.

I knew it was a long enough course I would want water, and I'm out of practice enough that I wanted extra ammo. So the base Micro had room for 3 AR mags and 4 pistol mags. I put 3 pistol mags and one small bottle of lube in the pistol pouches just in case a gun started giving me issues. The piece below that is called a "thing one", also by Spiritus. It attaches to the micro and gives you two larger general purpose pouches (can hold 2 AR mags, or a radio, an IFAK, a small water bottle, etc). I used that to add 2 more AR mags and my 16 oz nalgene. Below that is a dangler pouch. I think Spiritus calls theirs the Sack, but everybody makes a version. I put my IFAK, tourniquet, and multitool in there. Always wise to carry medical and a multitool can save your butt (and I did need mine on the course to tighten down my holster hanger...It's getting locktite'd this week).

Belt is a Ferro Bison belt. It's a two piece belt, inner velcro loops through belt loops on your pants, this part velcros onto the inner belt. Holster is a safariland retention holster. I was hoping to run my CZ P-09 but I didn't get a retention holster for it in time so had to use my Glock holster. Using the ALS system so I can swap holsters easily onto a True North holster adaptor because I hate how wobbly the standard safariland belt loop set up is. You could honestly run this kind of event with just a backpack if that's all you had, but the one piece of gear you really do need is a hard shell pistol holster with active retention. You're moving around a lot and a pistol dropping on the dirt is an automatic DQ.

I have some changes I will likely make for the next one, but that's what I did this time.
raidernarizona
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Sounds awesome! I like to run but have never shot competitively and that part would definitely be my weakness. How do they weight the run time vs shooting?

How long did it take you?
BenderRodriguez
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ttha_aggie_09 said:

Great shooting and you must be in pretty decent shape to pull that kind of a run/jog off!

Is there an organization that puts this together? Any rules to join? Sounds like it would pair well with training for a western hunt in the mountains (running with gear and shooting under duress/fatigue).

I am not in shape like I should be, I just kept my feet moving even when I didn't feel like it. Your placement is a mix of your shooting time and run time and my raw run time was slow and actually closer to middle of the pack. Interestingly I actually did worse rank wise for both movement and shooting (though better in shooting than running) individually when compared to my final placement, but being "okay" at both is way better than being bad at one. I got outshot by some guys who couldn't outrun me and outrun by guys who couldn't outshoot me.

This one was put on by Old Eighteen Defense, and they run events all over Texas throughout the year. Waco Tactical Fitness also hosts a couple a year, and there are other orgs that put one or two on. There is no overaching organization that determines rules or requires membership, every place and group that hosts them does things their own way.

I think folks with experience western hunting would do great at these. One of the things I really need to improve on is target identification in sun/shade and grass/shrub mix, and my range estimation. That's something yall should already be better at than I am.
BenderRodriguez
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raidernarizona said:

Sounds awesome! I like to run but have never shot competitively and that part would definitely be my weakness. How do they weight the run time vs shooting?

How long did it take you?

60% shooting 40% run for this event, but that can also vary depending on who is hosting.

My average pace ended up being about 15 min per mile IIRC with the waiting and shooting stages taken out. That would be slow as heck on a flat course with no load, but I'm not too unhappy about that given the 25 lbs I carried and the terrain. There was a lot of hills, and some spots you just flat couldn't run on safely (a field with tall grass and a ton of hidden rocks comes to mind).
Jason C.
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What do you use for ear protection at your other events versus a running event? I dont want to buy (narrator: he does) something fancy if it's overkill.
BenderRodriguez
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Favorite stage of the match: Stage 5.

Start position was about 20 yards away from shooting position on top of a steep embankment. Run up the hill, load rifle, engage one target at 200ish yard with a no shoot right next to it with one hit. Clear and safe the rifle, engage 4 pistol targets at 25 yards, one hit each. With a cleared rifle and a holstered pistol, run/slide back down the hill, touch a sign 10 yards away, run back up the hill and using a new rifle magazine do it all again, then repeat a third time.

Required really good rifle accuracy to not smack the no shoot even after running the hill, good rifle handling to load, safe and clear it repeatedly, good pistol handling to draw/reholster repeatedly, etc and forced you to balance keeping heart rate low enough to shoot while still pushing yourself up the hill since it was a timed stage like all the others...and it was stage 5 so you'd already gone several miles and shooting stages and were tired.

ETA: someone else actually gopro'd it and it makes way more sense watching instead of reading my description so check out their run:




BenderRodriguez
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Jason C. said:

What do you use for ear protection at your other events versus a running event? I dont want to buy (narrator: he does) something fancy if it's overkill.

Glad you mentioned that, because I forgot to talk about these and I was really happy with them. I usually use cheap over ear protection like howard leights at USPSA matches, etc.

Actually got a recommendation for this event that I'm glad I followed because over ear muffs would have been really hot and uncomfortable: They're a little spendy but I'm going to use the heck out of them: Otto Noizebarriers.



They're electronic in ear hearing protection. Was still able to hear range commands, not as hot as over ear. Really neat thing is the case has a rechargeable battery, so they recharge when you put them in storage. Have the option for foam or gel inserts, foam fits my ears better. Didn't fall out in 8 miles or lose charge so they did right by me.
Jason C.
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After watching that stage it makes me realize (1) I'll need 3x the pistol ammo Bender had and (2) my goal would be to finish. Not being last would be a bonus, ha.
jabberwalkie09
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BenderRodriguez said:

Jason C. said:

What do you use for ear protection at your other events versus a running event? I dont want to buy (narrator: he does) something fancy if it's overkill.

Glad you mentioned that, because I forgot to talk about these and I was really happy with them. I usually use cheap over ear protection like howard leights at USPSA matches, etc.

I've been using some Safariland Liberators lately. I had a discount that I needed to use from Safariland (RIP to my wallet because I bought a bunch of ELS stuff too). I have found that they're definitely a step up in quality and comfort than the Howard Leights. The liberators chew through batteries though. They're not quite MSA sound fidelity though.

How much to the OTTO's run?
Jason C.
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Can't wait to see the future evolution of this sport. Will it have carts and caddies like golf?
BenderRodriguez
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jabberwalkie09 said:




How much to the OTTO's run?

Not cheap. Got mine on sale but I think retail is around $400.
Hobbes01
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May be an odd question, but what kind of footwear were most people using? Running trail shoe, lightweight hiking boot, tactical boots? Given the terrain plus distance, I could see people arriving at different decisions with good logic supporting each option.
BenderRodriguez
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Jason C. said:

Can't wait to see the future evolution of this sport. Will it have carts and caddies like golf?

Definitely not. It's a traditional biathlon. Moving while carrying your own gear will always be the core of the event.

It's funny though because I could see a lot of value in something like PRS where you will see a lot of gear carts for run and gun. Being able to read wind and make good long range shots is a great way to separate yourself from the competition, even though they are very different styles of shooting.

Speaking of that, been doing a lot of thinking about how I need to start preparing for the next one. Think there's a lot of value to be found in combining interval/cardio work with dry fire and position building for rifle shots.

Next one I really want to make it out for is a night run....can be shot with either white light or under night vision. I already have been for a couple midnight runs with a 50 lbs ruck and night vision on this year just to get a feel for it. That one could be really fun.
jabberwalkie09
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Jason C. said:

Can't wait to see the future evolution of this sport. Will it have carts and caddies like golf?
Between stages? USPSA nationals has had golf carts for a few years now when they have had their nationals events at CMP Talladega. Depending on the range, this isn't a bad idea when you're shooting over multiple days. I'm planning on renting one for Classic Nationals in May. Otherwise I'll be dragging all my stuff in my crappy Academy wagon.
BenderRodriguez
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Hobbes01 said:

May be an odd question, but what kind of footwear were most people using? Running trail shoe, lightweight hiking boot, tactical boots? Given the terrain plus distance, I could see people arriving at different decisions with good logic supporting each option.

Not an odd question at all, a very smart question.

Saw a little bit of everything you listed out there. I ran in Altra trail running shoes. Worked pretty well, but there was enough gravel road and rocky dry creek bed running on the course that I almost wish I had gone with an actual running shoe instead with a thicker cushion, I was feeling some of those small rocks the last couple miles.

A different course might mean a different shoe would have been better.

I guess the correct answer is almost always going to be whatever you've already put mileage on while carrying weight that supported your foot. I wore those Altras every time I went out running or walking with a pack on before the race so didn't have any blister or hot spot issues, just a little extra tenderness from lots of small sharp rocks.
BenderRodriguez
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Jason C. said:

After watching that stage it makes me realize (1) I'll need 3x the pistol ammo Bender had and (2) my goal would be to finish. Not being last would be a bonus, ha.

Now you can see why I brought almost 3x the amount of ammo "required". Sure it's only 50 rounds if you make all your hits.....but these guys like small targets at long distance.

Haven't checked the magazines yet so I don't know how much I shot on saturday. I had some ammo left, but I probably shot about 2/3rds of what I packed in for both rifle and pistol. Fatigue+timer+small difficult targets=plenty of missed opportunities.

I was really happy to not have any issues with the 580 and 640 yard targets. I'm not using high quality hand loaded 77gr match ammo, just 55 gr factory XM193. If it had been windier I might have had some issues, but thanks to chrono data and Strelok, I was able to make those hits pretty easily, even though I was only able to practice out to 300y before the match.
Mr. Dubi
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Were there any obstacles? Or was this simply a natural terrain course?

I have seen the WTF matches and the like, but I don't want to jeopardize my newly repaired shoulder, or the like from climbing ropes and monkey bars.
BenderRodriguez
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Mr. Dubi said:

Were there any obstacles? Or was this simply a natural terrain course?

I have seen the WTF matches and the like, but I don't want to jeopardize my newly repaired shoulder, or the like from climbing ropes and monkey bars.


Nope, the OE events all just use terrain as far as I know. It was rough terrain though.

So. Many. Hills.
O.G.
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I am definitely down to give this sport a try would need to change the optics on the AR I would use and most likely buy a different handgun than my EDC.

Running is the most expensive "free" sport there is.
TresPuertas
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Ran the Breckinridge R&G a couple of months ago and loved it.

Old Eighteen Defense is a great organization and will help you through the whole thing if you need it.

i was a little intimidated at first because i hadn't ever done anything like it but everyone on course were really helpful and patient.

with events like this I worried that this would be a total hard ass fest but it wasn't. all skill levels are welcome and just as many people hiked/rucked as did run.

about 2 years ago i decided to get my **** together and get in shape, and this was a great motivator. training is fun and is right up the alley for a lot of people on this board
texAZtea
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Putin: Should we invade Texas yet?

General: (checks the OB) No, they started running distance races and shooting things while they're running for fun.

Putin: No *****

General: (double checks) Yep, and now they're doing it with night vision gear
ttha_aggie_09
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BenderRodriguez
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TresPuertas said:


with events like this I worried that this would be a total hard ass fest but it wasn't. all skill levels are welcome and just as many people hiked/rucked as did run.


Thats a great point, thanks for sharing.

This isn't about winning. Its about seeing what you are capable of and testing your equipment.

And its an amazing opportunity. Don't wait until you're "ready". You will always have an excuse for something else you need to do first. Just go, see where you're at, and improve on it.
BenderRodriguez
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Still laughing at this. POTD
O.G.
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BenderRodriguez said:

TresPuertas said:


with events like this I worried that this would be a total hard ass fest but it wasn't. all skill levels are welcome and just as many people hiked/rucked as did run.


Thats a great point, thanks for sharing.

This isn't about winning. Its about seeing what you are capable of and testing your equipment.

And its an amazing opportunity. Don't wait until you're "ready". You will always have an excuse for something else you need to do first. Just go, see where you're at, and improve on it.
Thats going to be pretty much true of anything running related, pretty much doesn't matter what kind of a run it is.

You'll have some really top tier guys/girls participating, then you'll have some pretty good ones, then the pedestrian/hobby level people.

Someone that is/was a legit hardass may or may not be the worlds greatest runner, and the worlds greatest runner probably can't shoot.

Bender, do you mind if I PM you about this? I'm doing my 10th full marathon this year, and after that I'm probably not doing any more 26.2s unless I get into Boston/Berlin or some such....So, a change in running goals would be nice.
BenderRodriguez
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Not at all, happy to help if I can. Awesome on the marathons, I've only ever run half marathons. Coof canceled last one I was signed up for and havent managed to get motivated to train for another one which is why I liked this so event so much.
texAZtea
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BenderRodriguez said:

Still laughing at this. POTD
I'm rather proud of that one
Aggieangler93
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Heck, I would.love to learn to shoot well enough to just do that basketball drill. May have to set something like that up at mu buddy's place soon and see what happens.
Class of '93 - proud Dad of a '22 grad and a '26 student!
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