I knap as a hobby and it takes about 30-90 minutes depending on size, detail, etc. I've only been doing it about 2-3 years in my downtime (not every day for survival) and ive got hundreds sitting on my desk in a bucket. When you think about the fact that every person on the continent was doing this daily for ~15,000 years it really puts it into perspective how many are out there.Mr. Frodo said:
Anyone have an idea of how long it took for these things to be made … originally? Was an arrowhead hours, days, weeks or months of work? This was rock on rock chipping correct? Amazing stuff.
arrowheads
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Last: 3 days ago by MouthBQ98
Wow! That is way faster than expected.
Yeah, these aren't some sacred items or anything. They're like disposable razor blades or spent bullets. They work for a purpose. I'm surprised sometimes they wouldn't try to recover or re-use them but if you can knap a new one out in 5-10 mins that sure isn't worth the lost time and effort to look for a missing arrow or dart or dig a head out of the nasty guts of a killed and butchered carcass.
They were commonly buried with the relics. Time shouldn't matter when it comes to graves.
That would be the same as someone going to a cemetery, digging in a grave and taking jewelry and gold teeth. Just my .02
That would be the same as someone going to a cemetery, digging in a grave and taking jewelry and gold teeth. Just my .02
Just to reiterate what was touched on earlier in the thread. Digging middens is like digging in their trash pits. It is in no way connected to grave digging or even slightly associated.Doc Hayworth said:
They were commonly buried with the relics. Time shouldn't matter when it comes to graves.
That would be the same as someone going to a cemetery, digging in a grave and taking jewelry and gold teeth. Just my .02
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/bowie/middenwhat.html
For anyone interested in learning more about middens.
For anyone interested in learning more about middens.
These are definitely not burial mounds, if you read and understand what he's saying, the midden mounds have "cubic shaped rocks", these rocks break at almost perfect cubes when heated to high temperatures (like in a fire or oven), when you spot these "cubed rocks" you then know this was once some type of kitchen or oven for cooking and heating things…. They find the arrow heads / points in these cubed rocks with all the left over cooking ash (from burning wood). They are not finding "human remains" where these "cubic rocks" are being found …. Basically they have found an Indian tribes kitchen…. It's not normal to bury peepaw or granny sitting squaw in the oven…LolDoc Hayworth said:
I'm not saying what to do or not do, but for me personally, I would not dig into a burial mound and take anything. I've been around many mounds in west Texas where you could see arrowheads and other tools used, and even the rancher advised against taking anything. IMO, it's the same as grave digging. Just my .02
Mr. Frodo said:
Anyone have an idea of how long it took for these things to be made … originally? Was an arrowhead hours, days, weeks or months of work? This was rock on rock chipping correct? Amazing stuff.
I bet a real pro arrowhead maker could make a "good enough" one in less than 15 minutes if he was motivated.
We have a five acre pasture on our place next to a major creek. Almost the entire thing is a former campground of many different cultures. I have never dug there but pick up perfect points as surface finds fairly often. Every time it rains I look in the run off area from our barn and usually find an eroded point. Latest last week was a perfect San Patrice point that archeologists say is from a culture 8,000 to 10,000 years before present. Sometimes I stand out in that field and marvel at the idea of the thousands upon thousands of people who were there before me. What were their hopes and dreams, how did they live their lives? How different were they from us? Fun to contemplate.
So three conspiracy theorists walk into a bar.................You can't convince me that's a coincidence.
Sounds like you have a great place to dig. Think like an Indian (food, water, shelter). When done correctly your property will stay looking good. Ideally, you start a hole and run material through screens. When your hole is large enough, you start backfilling with the sifted dirt and smooth it back out. With a little rainfall it will appear like the land was never disturbed.
Changing gears a bit. It sounds like you have a genuine interest in the artifacts. Do yourself a favor and attend one of the artifact shows that occur in Texas. The Temple show was last weekend and is probably the best. There will be 3 shows a year in Fredricksburg (2 in the spring, 1 in the fall). The artifact community is really not that large. Network a little. Most of the people there are very friendly and have a lot of knowledge.
Changing gears a bit. It sounds like you have a genuine interest in the artifacts. Do yourself a favor and attend one of the artifact shows that occur in Texas. The Temple show was last weekend and is probably the best. There will be 3 shows a year in Fredricksburg (2 in the spring, 1 in the fall). The artifact community is really not that large. Network a little. Most of the people there are very friendly and have a lot of knowledge.
If anyone has a place to dig and needs help, I'd love to do it just to say I've found one. I've looked in river beds, surface hunting around new braunfels/San Antonio area for years and never found one. Just to be clear-not asking to keep anything I just think it would be really cool to see one of these mounds and help out.
My folks have a place near Brenham. Guy came out one time saying there was a large civil war era camp nearby. Found some really cool stuff, one was like a harness for a drummer and a bunch of musket rounds.
My folks have a place near Brenham. Guy came out one time saying there was a large civil war era camp nearby. Found some really cool stuff, one was like a harness for a drummer and a bunch of musket rounds.
Good advice. The only thing I'd add is somehow find those you can trust. The artifact world is filled with some of the best people you could meet and some of the worst. When money is involved, it brings out the scum and they are more than ready to take your cash. Fakes are all over the place and they are very good and takes a very experienced person to know the difference.bigF said:
Sounds like you have a great place to dig. Think like an Indian (food, water, shelter). When done correctly your property will stay looking good. Ideally, you start a hole and run material through screens. When your hole is large enough, you start backfilling with the sifted dirt and smooth it back out. With a little rainfall it will appear like the land was never disturbed.
Changing gears a bit. It sounds like you have a genuine interest in the artifacts. Do yourself a favor and attend one of the artifact shows that occur in Texas. The Temple show was last weekend and is probably the best. There will be 3 shows a year in Fredricksburg (2 in the spring, 1 in the fall). The artifact community is really not that large. Network a little. Most of the people there are very friendly and have a lot of knowledge.
Again, some of the best folks you could ever meet are in this and they are more than happy to help you.
Tyler Childers done drank too much moonshine and smoke too much peyote weed up there in the foothills of Bluegrass land …..
That's one of my favorites that Tyler Childers sings. The lyrics are very vivid.
Class of '93 - proud Dad of a '22 grad and a '26 student!
Any thoughts on this? Found in SW Colorado (Creede area) on the surface in a draw I've walked up many times. I'm not familiar with points. Picked it up because it didn't look like any rock I'd ever seen in the area. Interesting tiny hole in the thick part of the (maybe) broken point. The thin edge seems to be knapped. Is it a point (part of one)?
Found two last weekend.
This is my collection after camping with and raising 5 kids. Most of which were found on upper Brazos river bluffs. The bone was passed down several generations to my dad and then to me before he died. It was a leather punch used by a lady who ended up on a reservation in OK.
Motot said:
Any thoughts on this? Found in SW Colorado (Creede area) on the surface in a draw I've walked up many times. I'm not familiar with points. Picked it up because it didn't look like any rock I'd ever seen in the area. Interesting tiny hole in the thick part of the (maybe) broken point. The thin edge seems to be knapped. Is it a point (part of one)?
Years ago o knapped quite a bit. One year my daughter's school asked me to be Squanto for the Thanksgiving festivities. I knapped out a bunch of arrowheads and gave them to my daughter's class (5th grade). Outside I had made a plexiglass shield and they could come and go during the day to watch me Knapp them out and give them away. Had a blast.
Just had a pool put in on the NW side of Georgetown. No where near any creeks or anything and didn't think this would be a place to find artifacts. Didn't check any of the spoils before the hauled it off and am kicking myself now because I found these two points today.
Since I found the two points above, I've looked a little closer now. Keep in mind, I've lived in this house for 5 years. It's a subdivision with 1 acre lots. Flat back yard with no anomalies until I opened my eyes a little more. One side of my yard is limestone, but that seam dives and the other side is all black dirt, only a difference of 100 yds or so. On the side without rock I noticed an area that's probably 15'x30' that has a bunch of the broken rock like middens described above. I've mowed over this area for years and it has never stood out. I built a crude screen and decided to dig it, and lo and behold I found another broken point in my first attempt at sifting. I suspect this may a midden. The wife isn't too thrilled about me digging up the yard, but she will have to get over it. I have since found another broken point after today's rain in some of the spoils that didn't get hauled off from my pool build. Still mad I didn't check the rest of it before they hauled it off.
Wow super cool!
Dad just bought a place on the Coleman/Brown/San Saba county area. Apparently there have been lots of heads found on the ranch and I now have the itch. What's my best bet to find them. The place has a large hill with tons of sandstone rock, but the other half had clay soils and a creek. Where is the best place to start looking. Think the "mountain" area with sandstone is best?
My old man and I used to hunt for arrowheads when I was a kid. We found all of these in Howard County, just West of Big Spring. Our place was on a hill above the salt/fresh lakes just off the interstate. I remember finding mortar and pestles too.
Need to get these rematted and put glass on the frame. There are probably 100 more arrowheads/old bullets/pottery in old coffee or snuff cans somewhere around my Mom's house.
Need to get these rematted and put glass on the frame. There are probably 100 more arrowheads/old bullets/pottery in old coffee or snuff cans somewhere around my Mom's house.
I'll play. This is our collection here at the house. Most came from the same area near where I grew up. There's several artifacts comprised of arrowheads, scraping tools, drills, weights, grinding stones, and more. No idea how many are in there, and thats not all of them.
The Comanches loved the Howard County area. Good water source and good flint.lp01 said:
My old man and I used to hunt for arrowheads when I was a kid. We found all of these in Howard County, just West of Big Spring. Our place was on a hill above the salt/fresh lakes just off the interstate. I remember finding mortar and pestles too.
Need to get these remarried and out glass on the frame. There are probably 100 more arrowheads/old bullets/pottery in old coffee or snuff cans somewhere around my Mom's house.
jpb1999 said:
What does a mound look like?
I have never seen the digging sifting process so can't picture it, but could probably figure it out if I knew where to dig…
Midden is a refuse dump
Think of a campsite for a few thousand years - fire ring moving - tipi wikiup shelter shifting - left over bones and shells - a gut dump over here one decade, over there the next - depending on where and who the occupant / tenant a seasonal migrant location - near a hunting or fishing spot - one of most common finds resulting residual evidence of human occupancy are the flakes and breaks of flint knapping
The one I had seen that was labeled "pre-Columbian midden" was an area of about 1/2 of a football field of about 1-2 foot higher than the land outside of the midden - not something you can really see until you dig and find something
my family has cotton fields out in Elbow. We have found hundreds of arrowheads over the years. I grew up closer to Forsan. Our property had a dry creek, and we found dozens of old musket balls.
You even go up on Scenic Mountain and see the Eagle that was carved in the flatrock? That eagle was pointing straight towards the spring in which Big Spring was named.
You even go up on Scenic Mountain and see the Eagle that was carved in the flatrock? That eagle was pointing straight towards the spring in which Big Spring was named.
We farmed some land out by Lomax. My dad would let me drive from Lomax to Elbow when I was a little kid.MCPO_Aggie said:
my family has cotton fields out in Elbow. We have found hundreds of arrowheads over the years. I grew up closer to Forsan. Our property had a dry creek, and we found dozens of old musket balls.
You even go up on Scenic Mountain and see the Eagle that was carved in the flatrock? That eagle was pointing straight towards the spring in which Big Spring was named.
I attended Elbow and Forsan in the 80s and early 90s. I have never heard of the eagle on Scenic Mountain. Please give some more details on the location. I still go to Big Spring a few times each year and would love to see it.
I had an uncle who lived close to the breaks at the Dawson/Borden County line, about 5 miles north of Howard County.Quote:
The Comanches loved the Howard County area. Good water source and good flint.
He had a crap ton of arrowheads.
He also got us access to the Indian Canyon Ranch near Lamsa, owned by the Dean family. We walked a creek there that had rocks blackened by camp fires all over the place. They allowed us to dig out a mammoth (or mastodon) tooth in that same creek. The tusk was exposed and crumbling.
I graduated from Forsan in 1992! Looks like what I was told as a child was wrong. The eagle was probably carved in 1857 by a CCC trooper. The pamphlet below does have information about other carvings that were done either by the Comanches or Apache's.
Big Spring State Park: Guide to Historic Rock Carvings on Scenic Mountain - Page 26 - The Portal to Texas History
Big Spring State Park on Route of Old Comanche War Trail Historical Marker
Big Spring State Park: Guide to Historic Rock Carvings on Scenic Mountain - Page 26 - The Portal to Texas History
Big Spring State Park on Route of Old Comanche War Trail Historical Marker
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