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Camp LaJunta & Camp Mystic [Staff Warning on OP]

3,048,985 Views | 4203 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by Reload8098
maddiedou
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I have drowned and mine was from a water skiing accident and I will not go into details because do not want to distract from the thread

But you are correct they did not suffer nor did they think they were not going to make it and I cannot speak for them but all your thinking about is surviving and then one gulp and its over
And I was out along time no cell phones back then
And staff you can delete if this is not on topic
maddiedou
KIKIAggies859
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Great news! What a terrifying night.
Benny the Jet Rodriguez
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dermdoc said:

Stive said:

So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

Fair enough. I am done. How do you not give refunds until forced to girls that died?

Instructions from their lawyers. It is hard for moral and just people to understand things like this because our natural inclination is to do whatever we can to "make it right", but that is the way the legal system is set up. I don't like it either, but that is what it is.
txags92
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Benny the Jet Rodriguez said:

dermdoc said:

Stive said:

So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

Fair enough. I am done. How do you not give refunds until forced to girls that died?

Instructions from their lawyers. It is hard for moral and just people to understand things like this because our natural inclination is to do whatever we can to "make it right", but that is the way the legal system is set up. I don't like it either, but that is what it is.

Exactly. On the stand, that moral and decent act becomes "Why did you offer refunds to the families of the girls who died while in your care without being asked? Did you do it because you felt responsible for their deaths?" And the answers turn into 8-9 digit jury verdicts. I think those verdicts are a foregone conclusion anyways, but the difference between insurance paying the lions share or not probably falls on whether they told you not to offer the refunds unless the families asked for them.
Worlds Foremost Ag
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txags92 said:

Benny the Jet Rodriguez said:

dermdoc said:

Stive said:

So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

Fair enough. I am done. How do you not give refunds until forced to girls that died?

Instructions from their lawyers. It is hard for moral and just people to understand things like this because our natural inclination is to do whatever we can to "make it right", but that is the way the legal system is set up. I don't like it either, but that is what it is.

Exactly. On the stand, that moral and decent act becomes "Why did you offer refunds to the families of the girls who died while in your care without being asked? Did you do it because you felt responsible for their deaths?" And the answers turn into 8-9 digit jury verdicts. I think those verdicts are a foregone conclusion anyways, but the difference between insurance paying the lions share or not probably falls on whether they told you not to offer the refunds unless the families asked for them.


I certainly understand this point, but even in the hypothetical case where no deaths occurred at Mystic I think a refund would be warranted and hopefully offered preemptively. These campers were not a week into a month long stay before the camp was destroyed and the session cancelled. In this hypothetical case I would hope camp ownership would look to insurance to cover lost revenues and not the families.
txags92
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Worlds Foremost Ag said:

txags92 said:

Benny the Jet Rodriguez said:

dermdoc said:

Stive said:

So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

Fair enough. I am done. How do you not give refunds until forced to girls that died?

Instructions from their lawyers. It is hard for moral and just people to understand things like this because our natural inclination is to do whatever we can to "make it right", but that is the way the legal system is set up. I don't like it either, but that is what it is.

Exactly. On the stand, that moral and decent act becomes "Why did you offer refunds to the families of the girls who died while in your care without being asked? Did you do it because you felt responsible for their deaths?" And the answers turn into 8-9 digit jury verdicts. I think those verdicts are a foregone conclusion anyways, but the difference between insurance paying the lions share or not probably falls on whether they told you not to offer the refunds unless the families asked for them.


I certainly understand this point, but even in the hypothetical case where no deaths occurred at Mystic I think a refund would be warranted and hopefully offered preemptively. These campers were not a week into a month long stay before the camp was destroyed and the session cancelled. In this hypothetical case I would hope camp ownership would look to insurance to cover lost revenues and not the families.

I agree, but I have no idea what their refund policy was for shortened sessions and it is likely that they would be relying on insurance to pay for those kinds of refunds. Which never happens fast if you have ever dealt with liability insurance of any kind. Sending out a message saying "We are working with our insurance company to address refunds and will have more information when it available" to all campers families certainly seems like it would have been a reasonable step without running afoul of insurance, but as has been said previously, they need somebody to help with their messaging because they are not doing a good job right now.
BugDiver
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Phil the Platypus said:

I thought I'd posted here for the last time; I figured I'd shared a few words of comfort from the perspective of a distant brother in Christ, and would now step back and continue praying from afar as your community talks and grieves together. However, I now have one more thing I'd like to add (really a "correction" or "edit" of sorts to something I said five pages ago, back in mid-August). I think this will be a comfort to anyone who is afraid that the girls' final moments on earth were horrible, panic-stricken, and even painful.

In my first post here--near the top of page 113--I shared about a local man up here who lost his son last November and then had some sort of acute medical event during which he was able to see Jesus and even interact with his boy. I then remarked that it must've felt amazing for the girls to suddenly get the "everything's completely OK" feeling that he (and other people with similar experiences) described, and thought it must be one of their fondest memories.

Here's the part I missed, though, which I only found out more recently: Based on the consistent testimony of many people who have survived a near-drowning experience, while drowning, people begin to experience that feeling of peace and contentment while they're still alive! And the way they make it sound, it's not just the last few seconds either--some people say they got this experience even though they were rescued before they'd even begun to lose consciousness!

The other day, I saw one or two YouTube videos of people who had been resuscitated after drowning to within an inch of their lives, and they all talked about a feeling of peace that set in while they were under the water. What struck me about those videos, though, was the sheer volume of comments below them where people shared that they'd had very similar experiences, and had felt the same way. Here are some of the comments I saw:

"I [drowned] in a lake when I was young, 3 or 4 years old. I remember a large bubble of light above me illuminating the darkness of the deep water and I felt at peace. I wasn't struggling to [breathe] or go to the surface, I wanted to stay in that peace. There was no pain until the air hit my lungs again."

"When I was 4, I fell into the deep end of a public pool, lifeguard on duty, and sank like a rock. I remember extreme panic, then I felt warmth and peace, I remember thinking the bubbles were going into the sunlight and it was beautiful. Next thing I know, I'm throwing up beside the pool and crying. I stood up and someone said I was fine...I will never forget that peace and those beautiful bubbles."

These were just two of the numerous accounts I've seen of children who had drowning experiences that they survived; some of them said that they felt or even saw Jesus with them, while one that I can't find now mentioned that she felt this sense of peace even though she was being tossed around in very turbulent water. These stories give me hope that the girls who drowned in this flood were enveloped in peace for much of the time that they were still alive underwater, perhaps (dare I say "probably" or even "certainly"?) even to the point that they felt perfectly fine with the fact that they couldn't breathe or get to the surface.

I think I'm not the only one who had assumed that they might've felt horrible fear, panic, and discomfort all the way until the point that they died (or at least until they lost consciousness); it's such a relief to know that once they'd been underwater for a little bit, they probably felt the absence of those things for their last few minutes of not knowing what heaven looks like. It also completely changes my perception of stories like that of the Harber sisters who were found still holding hands, as I realize they probably finished out

I know this post is meant to bring comfort, but I think it risks distracting us from the reality of what happened. What's wrong with saying that the girls suffered? We need to honor their lives, not just make ourselves feel better as a Christian society.

It may feel easier to imagine they slipped away peacefully, but I think it's okay, and necessary, to admit the ugly, heartbreaking truth: they were scared, cold, and probably crying for their mothers. It makes me cry to say that, but I believe it honors them more to tell the truth than to soften it.

Personally, I believe with better safety measures and faster action, they could have been saved. I will believe that for the rest of my life -- that this was preventable. If we blur the harsh truth and self-soothe with happier thoughts, we risk turning away from the accountability and change needed to prevent this from ever happening again.
maddiedou
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I agree with your statement I was not trying to minimize their tragic death whatsoever just explaining the experience in a brief sentence

maddiedou
Allen Aggie
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maddiedou said:

I agree with your statement I was not trying to minimize their tragic death whatsoever just explaining the experience in a brief sentence



We know you weren't.
culdeus
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dermdoc said:

Stonegateag85 said:

Can't say I disagree. Bills won't pay themselves, legal ones included.

They were getting 14 mill a year. Got to have a lot of bills to go through that. And it just seems they could have waited three more months and not make it so obvious.


These camps are not a free cash flow machine. They are barely able to pay the staff. From knowing Jane they might have years they run in the red at best they clear 10-15%. Lonehollow couldn't make it, etc. LH closing was a tough moment. To me signalled the multi week camp model was in trouble. Yeah it sold, but to a short turn camp. Mystic rode a middle ground of some two week terms and now W is doing a second short term.

Small sample size but the big four camp kids I know at our school and their families 1/4 are a for sure yes to go back. I don't see the line forming to the left from here but who knows.
TexasAg95
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culdeus said:

dermdoc said:

Stonegateag85 said:

Can't say I disagree. Bills won't pay themselves, legal ones included.

They were getting 14 mill a year. Got to have a lot of bills to go through that. And it just seems they could have waited three more months and not make it so obvious.


These camps are not a free cash flow machine. They are barely able to pay the staff. From knowing Jane they might have years they run in the red at best they clear 10-15%. Lonehollow couldn't make it, etc. LH closing was a tough moment. To me signalled the multi week camp model was in trouble. Yeah it sold, but to a short turn camp. Mystic rode a middle ground of some two week terms and now W is doing a second short term.

Small sample size but the big four camp kids I know at our school and their families 1/4 are a for sure yes to go back. I don't see the line forming to the left from here but who knows.

yup, it's just a different time with kids and their summers. So much other stuff, sports, everything else. When I went to Stewart in 79 through 82, they had two big five week sessions. That was it. Now all the camps are doing more smaller sessions.
Independence H-D
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I was there 79-87.
lexofer
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Stopped by Camp Stewart yesterday to say hi to Kathy when I was in town. She's doing well considering everything.

Back when I was working there in the office I overheard all their discussions about adding a 2 week term after the two long terms. They really think the shorter terms don't give you a true "camp experience" but they reluctantly added it and of course it filled up quick.

My daughter wanted to go to a traditional summer camp this year, but we couldn't even find a 2 week stretch we didn't have plans to get her into one. With all the other crap my kids do the only way we even got a family vacation was to piggyback it onto a volleyball tournament.
TexasAg95
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lexofer said:

Stopped by Camp Stewart yesterday to say hi to Kathy when I was in town. She's doing well considering everything.

Back when I was working there in the office I overheard all their discussions about adding a 2 week term after the two long terms. They really think the shorter terms don't give you a true "camp experience" but they reluctantly added it and of course it filled up quick.

My daughter wanted to go to a traditional summer camp this year, but we couldn't even find a 2 week stretch we didn't have plans to get her into one. With all the other crap my kids do the only way we even got a family vacation was to piggyback it onto a volleyball tournament.

I was down in the area a couple years ago. Emailed camp and asked if I could come walk around. Got to visit with Kathy in her living room for over an hour. She totally remembered me , my family, etc. Keep in mind I was a camper freaking 45 years ago. Unreal.

It was really magical to walk around camp.

I'm still amazed my parents sent me away for 5 weeks when I was 6,7,8,9 years old. But it was awesome. Saddle a horse, shoot guns and bows...all if it.
mwm
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I'm still praying for the families directly affected by the events of July 4.
spud1910
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Me too. Since that day nothing else has gotten as much of my prayers.
Mark Fairchild
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Leaving for Mass this morning, my wife looking at the pink ribbons on the trees, said, "These ribbons are such reminders of Heaven's 27. All the "firsts" of this year for all those families are so hard, and they need our prayers." The pink ribbons and the prayers continue for all impacted by the July 4th. flood!
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
Touchless
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Anyone want to fill me in on what all was just deleted? Simply asking what a post was in reference to isn't exactly a derail in my opinion. Said there were 4 new replies on the thread.
txags92
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Touchless said:

Anyone want to fill me in on what all was just deleted? Simply asking what a post was in reference to isn't exactly a derail in my opinion. Said there were 4 new replies on the thread.

It was a bot account farming post count by reposting posts that were made on the first page of various threads. Common tactic scammers use to make their accounts look reputable before trying to sell tickets. The account had 31 posts and every one I looked at was a repost of text somebody else posted earlier in the thread, typically about a month after the initial post was made.
Anti-taxxer
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That's happened several time on this thread. The bookmark will say 8-9 new replies, but there's only one.
Touchless
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txags92 said:

Touchless said:

Anyone want to fill me in on what all was just deleted? Simply asking what a post was in reference to isn't exactly a derail in my opinion. Said there were 4 new replies on the thread.

It was a bot account farming post count by reposting posts that were made on the first page of various threads. Common tactic scammers use to make their accounts look reputable before trying to sell tickets. The account had 31 posts and every one I looked at was a repost of text somebody else posted earlier in the thread, typically about a month after the initial post was made.

Thank you. I did think that post looked familiar when there were rumors of Cile possibly being found. Wish mods would delete those as well, but also just leave a note of sorts as well so others can know what happened.
Mark Fairchild
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My wife took these pictures of this morning's sunrise. When she got home, she told me to post them because she knew in her heart that the Lord had put the Heaven's 27 in charge of creating such beauty. So here are the pictures of something that only angels can do. Pink ribbons and prayers continue every day!!!
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
Deerdude
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It was beautiful sunrise today. Had a run to south Texas and really enjoyed it between Marble Falls and SA.
Allen Aggie
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Mark Fairchild said:

My wife took these pictures of this morning's sunrise. When she got home, she told me to post them because she knew in her heart that the Lord had put the Heaven's 27 in charge of creating such beauty. So here are the pictures of something that only angels can do. Pink ribbons and prayers continue every day!!!


Beautiful. Where was this?
Mark Fairchild
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Allen Aggie: Howdy, we live in Rockport, TX!
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
Anti-taxxer
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https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/18/us/camp-mystic-flooding-texas-security-guard.html?fbclid=IwdGRleANhJaJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHu7oNMXp7mxB9AGa_RLVMLGtrpm-5N9gosmRwU1KtYBDmFxrS181iEB8uEBk_aem_y_8n9cZ60KZUrPNXX2ZNwQ

A New York Times story on Glenn!
Guitarsoup
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Way Back Machine if you are paywalled: https://web.archive.org/web/20251018132920/https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/18/us/camp-mystic-flooding-texas-security-guard.html
Mark Fairchild
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Thank you!
Gig'em, Ole Army Class of '70
AustinAG
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"We're not going anywhere," he yelled above the raging water. "We're going to be OK."
"It's a new activity," he offered, "pool party at the Wiggle Inn after midnight."

He now wears a trio of necklaces as a memorial to the camp and to the flood. One is a cross that once belonged to Dick Eastland, given to Mr. Juenke by his widow. The others were gifts from the families of the girls he saved, including one with an inscription.
"Fear not for I am with you," it reads. "Wiggle Inn."

God bless this man.
Waffledynamics
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How has Cile Steward still not been found? Have they called off the search officially?

What a heartbreaking thing to go through.
combat wombat™
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Probably buried, very deep.
Anti-taxxer
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Waffledynamics said:

How has Cile Steward still not been found? Have they called off the search officially?

What a heartbreaking thing to go through.

I believe there is a group (I'm not sure of whom it is made up of) that is still searching. The Heavens 27 Foundation page regularly shares a link to contribute donations to that will help fund the continued search.
clarkebkr07
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The Texas Rangers are in charge of the search. They have a group that fluctuates between 70-100 people. Last week they finally got a barge with a crane to start debris removal from the dams. The search is still very active.
missinAggieland
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Waffledynamics said:

How has Cile Steward still not been found? Have they called off the search officially?

What a heartbreaking thing to go through.


Still praying.
Naveronski
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Waffledynamics said:

How has Cile Steward still not been found? Have they called off the search officially?

What a heartbreaking thing to go through.

As painful as it is, I try to look at it from the other perspective:

Despite a flood that tossed RV's and boulders with ease and covered cars with mud and debris, the dedicated volunteers and SAR teams have been able to find almost every missing person.

I understand this doesn't provide comfort to the Stewards, but the fact that so many people have been recovered is remarkable.
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