So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

Can't say I disagree. Bills won't pay themselves, legal ones included.

dermdoc said:

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So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

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Money would definitely factor in.

I would also venture to guess, since they lost a father and a son, announcing the reopening could be a reaction to their personal grief and wanting something that looks "normal" in their lives, something to look forward to.

Is the timing terrible, absolutely. And I agree with the one above who said they need to hire a PR firm or someone to handle PR professionally.

This thread has turned combative.

Might be worth stepping away from TexAgs for a few hours?

Naveronski said:

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This thread has turned combative.

Might be worth stepping away from TexAgs for a few hours?

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Agree. I was pretty calm until Mystic struck again this week. Will move my focus to BTHO Auburn! We are all Ags.

Anti-taxxer said:

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Or, in the event they have been told by counsel or insurance not to speak to the families…just not say anything about a memorial.

To those who don't get the frustration about it - say one of your family members died (due to what you believed to be another person's negligence). Would you want the person who you deem as responsible for your loved one's death to announce on their own that they have erected a memorial In their honor?

It feels like a gross negligence of common decency.

Or, that they are virtue signaling at the expense of the 27 victims. Almost like they think it will soften the blow of the opening announcement if they included that note.

It's icky.

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Agree with this take 100%. It's cold blooded, imo.

The timing… it seems very intentional.

Like another poster said, they need to let people know not to make other plans, to get their payment in, get on a waiting list, etc.

I think a lot of people will think the timing and the way they have handled the announcement (and well, everything) is inappropriate and off-putting. But the cult following is going to be thrilled and not give two ****s about anything other than the fact that their girls get to continue the tradition.

And because of those people, it doesn't really matter how poorly handled the Mystic response is, has been, or will be; they are still going to take in millions of dollars a year.

dermdoc said:

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So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

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If I put the best construction on it, I could say that it's possible they are also hurting at the loss of their husband/father/etc, and have tunnel vision that they are honoring his death by keeping his dream alive.

I hope someone can be the voice of reason for them, that this isn't the time to be discussing things like re-opening and that there are better ways to honor the girls and Dick and all those who lost their lives. The are never going to appease all of the parents, but there are certainly forced errors.

All to say, I hope that's what they are doing vs a money grab...frankly, because I think money is going to be very hard to come by.

AgLiving06 said:

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dermdoc said:

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So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

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If I put the best construction on it, I could say that it's possible they are also hurting at the loss of their husband/father/etc, and have tunnel vision that they are honoring his death by keeping his dream alive.

I hope someone can be the voice of reason for them, that this isn't the time to be discussing things like re-opening and that there are better ways to honor the girls and Dick and all those who lost their lives. The are never going to appease all of the parents, but there are certainly forced errors.

All to say, I hope that's what they are doing vs a money grab...frankly, because I think money is going to be very hard to come by.

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Disagree. The money will always be there. My Mary Grace will not.
But almighty mystic will survive.

So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

dermdoc said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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dermdoc said:

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So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

---

If I put the best construction on it, I could say that it's possible they are also hurting at the loss of their husband/father/etc, and have tunnel vision that they are honoring his death by keeping his dream alive.

I hope someone can be the voice of reason for them, that this isn't the time to be discussing things like re-opening and that there are better ways to honor the girls and Dick and all those who lost their lives. The are never going to appease all of the parents, but there are certainly forced errors.

All to say, I hope that's what they are doing vs a money grab...frankly, because I think money is going to be very hard to come by.

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Disagree. The money will always be there. My Mary Grace will not.
But almighty mystic will survive.

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I'm disappointed that you read what I wrote and came to this conclusion.

We know you're hurting. Nothing Mystic does or doesn't do will bring Mary Grace back.

I hope you're having frequent conversations with your Pastor.

From the outside that's my take.
I have followed this closely with a heart full of empathy for,your family and the others. I am not a Texas person, I don't know what's in their hearts, but it seems like every new thing you hear about them paints them as living in a bubble of their own making. And as time goes that bubble seems less and less aligned with the world around them. I am sure that when you've done things your way for generations in what is essentially your own world, and been venerated for it it has to be hard to accept a new reality, but at some point they need someone to step in to save them from themselves.

Jmo.

AgLiving06 said:

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dermdoc said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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dermdoc said:

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So since my question about why Mystic felt the need to announce the re opening this week was not answered, I will say it was all about money.
Does anyone disagree?

---

If I put the best construction on it, I could say that it's possible they are also hurting at the loss of their husband/father/etc, and have tunnel vision that they are honoring his death by keeping his dream alive.

I hope someone can be the voice of reason for them, that this isn't the time to be discussing things like re-opening and that there are better ways to honor the girls and Dick and all those who lost their lives. The are never going to appease all of the parents, but there are certainly forced errors.

All to say, I hope that's what they are doing vs a money grab...frankly, because I think money is going to be very hard to come by.

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Disagree. The money will always be there. My Mary Grace will not.
But almighty mystic will survive.

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I'm disappointed that you read what I wrote and came to this conclusion.

We know you're hurting. Nothing Mystic does or doesn't do will bring Mary Grace back.

I hope you're having frequent conversations with your Pastor.

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I am. And he agrees with me.

dermdoc said:

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Stive said:

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So much for stepping away from the keyboard.

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Fair enough. I am done. How do you not give refunds until forced to girls that died?

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I'm sorry, Derm is 1000% right on this. I'm disgusted with Mystics handling of this tragedy. There's the legal and there's the moral part. They could have reached out to the families ... The days of just doing the honorable thing are gone.

My prayers continue for ALL affected.

They have handled this very poorly. Im sure lawyers and insurances are involved. That considered... this has still been handled poorly. They also made some poor decisions both that night and in not preparing for a flash flood adequately in a canyon that had been known to flash flood many times previously.

There were no evacuation drills (from what I have ascertained ever in the history of the camp). There was no well-known evacuation plan among staff and counselors. There was no early alert system in place for flash flooding and there should have been redundant alert systems in place. They had 100 years to get it right and several previous events to know of a clear and present danger. It was a very large failure of leadership/ownership and would constitute negligence in my book.

Middle of the game, and still can't step away from the keyboard…

Here I thought for one day there would be civility again for this thread and it must be half time and bored

https://instagr.am/p/DPE_xx5Dv_Y

maddiedou said:

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Here I thought for one day there would be civility again for this thread and it must be half time and bored

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Is it not civil to point out truth? And there should always be time for truth. Do you agree?

909Ag2006 said:

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[This thread was a resource for people during the flood and the days and weeks after it was over. We did not allow this thread to derail into arguments about who was at fault and we do not want that to happen now. If posters want to discuss the legal issues, lawsuits, hearings, or depositions we ask that another thread be started or poster submit on existing threads other than this. We do not want to ruin what the spirit of this thread was during that time. Thank you for your assistance. -Staff]

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Great post see how long it last

The Lord put it on my heart to apologize for letting my anger get the best of me this past week. Please forgive me.
And this time I will step away for a while. God bless.

That is part of the grief process you are going through, doc.

You are forgiven.

Prayers and pink ribbons continue for everyone affected by the July 4 tragedy. May our Lord's mercy cover and be felt by all concerned.

Alta said:

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I made a similar post in a different thread but I'll post my thoughts on that here.

It's certainly a tricky thread to post in as I think everybody cares about the families who lost children. Personally, no natural disaster has hit closer to home for our family and kids. And at the same time people still want to have an honest conversation about what transpired and how to best prevent it in the future. For example, I had a family member who died while evacuating from a flood when I was a child. If we just stayed put then he would have lived. That heavily shapes my viewpoint of what I think a reasonable course of action would be in a flood. Doesn't mean my view point is right but it is my viewpoint which I'm and others are allowed to have. Reasonable people can disagree there and on a message board some posts will come across as offensive.

I'm probably considered a "Mystic Defender" which I guess isn't completely inaccurate but doesn't capture what I'm defending. I think I'm a defender of trying to figure out how to best prevent these tragedies from occurring although we will never be successful in doing so as nature will always find a way to do something extreme. Because even with the risks involved I want my kids to experience them and experience people like the Eastlands. In my opinion, when it turns to people only wanted revenge against a family then these places/experiences disappear. Because with hindsight nothing is ever good enough and it's easy to pinpoint well if they just did X.

We need really good people to create great places in this world for children to grow and flourish. More now than ever in the society we are living in. And I unfortunately think that is disappearing as I think a lot of really good people know that no matter how hard they try they can't predict/prevent everything and get turned away from trying.

We unfortunately attended the funerals of 5 of the Mystic girls. And one thing that sticks in my head everyday from the eulogies is that these little girls life's were cut far too short but they were lucky enough to have families who provided them incredible love and experiences. And those all carried heightened risk. Tomorrow is not guaranteed even for our youngest kids and I want to give them the most incredible love and experiences that I'm able to do so.

Long post and I'm not trying to offend anybody. We pray for the Mystic girls and their families everyday, we pray for the Eastlands everyday and yes I pray that places for kids to be kids continue to exist as well. And what that last sentence means can be very different for different people and that should be ok too.

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Very good write up here and I will try to add some more to it.

This was a horrific tragedy of epic proportions and I have wept deeply over those lost.

No amount of negligence, monetary damages, closures, delays or forced bankruptcies replace them or even provide any lasting satisfaction.

Lets not forget Dick Eastland died trying to save them and its my understanding he had saved many and did so likely knowing it was at great risk to himself.

To build a memorial for the lost in order to honor them and remember them is a normal practice and has been done repeatedly throughout history from the CKs to the GFs. The article stated no design was done and I am confident the families will get input. It is a memorial I would like to go visit, like I have Bonfire many times, just to empathize a little more closely with the families who have lost.

Lets also remember what we see on the outside is not always whats going on in the inside and I am confident many of the surviving owners, staff, and campers are hurting either in grief, trauma, or both.

As Alta said having places like this for kids have great value, there is also great value in returning to the site or the experience, where the tragedy occurred for the purposes of healing. JBP would say face your monster to make it shrink and go away.

I can foresee that first camp open no charge for all those present on July 4th with additional grief counselors in place.

Life is tragic and I pray these families reunite again with Jesus at his calling.

I thought I'd posted here for the last time; I figured I'd shared a few words of comfort from the perspective of a distant brother in Christ, and would now step back and continue praying from afar as your community talks and grieves together. However, I now have one more thing I'd like to add (really a "correction" or "edit" of sorts to something I said five pages ago, back in mid-August). I think this will be a comfort to anyone who is afraid that the girls' final moments on earth were horrible, panic-stricken, and even painful.

In my first post here--near the top of page 113--I shared about a local man up here who lost his son last November and then had some sort of acute medical event during which he was able to see Jesus and even interact with his boy. I then remarked that it must've felt amazing for the girls to suddenly get the "everything's completely OK" feeling that he (and other people with similar experiences) described, and thought it must be one of their fondest memories.

Here's the part I missed, though, which I only found out more recently: Based on the consistent testimony of many people who have survived a near-drowning experience, while drowning, people begin to experience that feeling of peace and contentment while they're still alive! And the way they make it sound, it's not just the last few seconds either--some people say they got this experience even though they were rescued before they'd even begun to lose consciousness!

The other day, I saw one or two YouTube videos of people who had been resuscitated after drowning to within an inch of their lives, and they all talked about a feeling of peace that set in while they were under the water. What struck me about those videos, though, was the sheer volume of comments below them where people shared that they'd had very similar experiences, and had felt the same way. Here are some of the comments I saw:

"I [drowned] in a lake when I was young, 3 or 4 years old. I remember a large bubble of light above me illuminating the darkness of the deep water and I felt at peace. I wasn't struggling to [breathe] or go to the surface, I wanted to stay in that peace. There was no pain until the air hit my lungs again."

"When I was 4, I fell into the deep end of a public pool, lifeguard on duty, and sank like a rock. I remember extreme panic, then I felt warmth and peace, I remember thinking the bubbles were going into the sunlight and it was beautiful. Next thing I know, I'm throwing up beside the pool and crying. I stood up and someone said I was fine...I will never forget that peace and those beautiful bubbles."

These were just two of the numerous accounts I've seen of children who had drowning experiences that they survived; some of them said that they felt or even saw Jesus with them, while one that I can't find now mentioned that she felt this sense of peace even though she was being tossed around in very turbulent water. These stories give me hope that the girls who drowned in this flood were enveloped in peace for much of the time that they were still alive underwater, perhaps (dare I say "probably" or even "certainly"?) even to the point that they felt perfectly fine with the fact that they couldn't breathe or get to the surface.

I think I'm not the only one who had assumed that they might've felt horrible fear, panic, and discomfort all the way until the point that they died (or at least until they lost consciousness); it's such a relief to know that once they'd been underwater for a little bit, they probably felt the absence of those things for their last few minutes of not knowing what heaven looks like. It also completely changes my perception of stories like that of the Harber sisters who were found still holding hands, as I realize they probably finished out their earthly lives by sharing a few beautiful moments of peace and contentment together hand-in-hand.

Read the book Heavenward, it won't disappoint.

Thanks for the recommendation! I really appreciate it, especially as (particularly for someone my age) I have quite a few friends over there already.

p.s. It's occurred to me that given the infinite duration of our eternal life (counting both heaven and the new creation) and the finite--though large--number of people who will be there, it's probably inevitable that I'll eventually meet everyone there. I'm looking forward to meeting not only all of Heaven's 27, but also the people I've met virtually here in this thread (if I don't meet you sooner than that, of course!).