Going back to 2022, at my first Strategic Planning meeting, that prior Council was resolute and unanimous that Wolf Pen needed a makeover. We were of a mind that we needed some seating, shade, gated entry for ticket sales, and something to be done with "the moat" in front of the stage. But, like some other issues, councils have come and gone since then and nothing material has changed.

Local friends that are musicians have told me the acoustics for performers are challenging at best- that echoes make it hard to play, and that with some upgrades including sound panels it could be incredible.

In today's costs, Wolf Pen is probably a $40 million dollar asset. Are we deriving utility from it that justifies that cost? As one member of Council, I don't think so.

Things are happening locally in our live music scene. Private sector groups are expressing interest in WPC's potential. Live music is starting to get some traction in both cities that it arguably never had before.

With that as background, what are y'all's thoughts? What, if anything, should we do? (Full disclosure- Wolf Pen will be on the next agenda, but it's not posted yet, so I can talk about it. This affords my colleagues and I an opportunity to hear from you via this platform, which most of them read.)

Inquisitively & Respectfully

Bob Yancy '95

I've played WPC several times and never found it a challenge for FOH or BOH.

When it's empty at sound checks there are some echoes, like every empty venue in the world, once you have a couple thousand people sitting on the lawn it's just fine.

Tell us more about these things that are going on in the local live music scene please. From discussions on this board, it would seem we don't have much of a live music scene.

Harry's is gone. It was the last place of any size where an artist of any name would play, even if they were not a big name yet.

The Grand Stafford reportedly closed.

Stampede made a go at having live music but it didn't work out.

Any larger name will be at Rudder but that is infrequent. Other music acts on campus will be at Aggie Park as part of a game weekend or festival.

I would like to know more about the interest in our live music potential before commenting on spending money for Wolf Pen Creek amphitheater.

maroon barchetta said:

---

Tell us more about these things that are going on in the local live music scene please. From discussions on this board, it would seem we don't have much of a live music scene.

Harry's is gone. It was the last place of any size where an artist of any name would play, even if they were not a big name yet.

The Grand Stafford reportedly closed.

Stampede made a go at having live music but it didn't work out.

Any larger name will be at Rudder but that is infrequent. Other music acts on campus will be at Aggie Park as part of a game weekend or festival.

I would like to know more about the interest in our live music potential before commenting on spending money for Wolf Pen Creek amphitheater.

---

Yessir. There's a new group called the Brazos Valley Live Music association with a website here:

https://www.bvlma.org/

They list a number of new events I believe they have helped organize. There's also a group affiliated with Chilifest, the Troubadour Festival and several other events that want to take a look at improvements at WPC for new events there; at Council last year we approved a Texas Music Friendly City designation and staff have made progress under that new moniker and finally, this council, at our last meeting, approved a grant application through the arts council that, if successful, would bring a series of events to Northgate.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

What are the past financials on the facility? Has it been anywhere near profitable, or at least break-even in terms of maintenance costs? Was there a projected profit over X years, or just seen as a negative cost benefit for the city?

I would leave the acoustics recommendations to folks that play there.

Seating would be nice. Wet ground takes the enjoyment out of a performance.

Shade would be nice, but I've only been to one event that was in the daytime. All others have been evening/night events. The heat is more of an issue. Maybe some misters instead?

The moat is ok, but it will never be clean without forcing the creek to run in front of the stage. Without flow or treatment, it's just a mosquito breeding ground.


A restaurant at the top of the hill would need a good-sized outdoor dining area to make it attractive. A bar would almost have to be required. Would the city sell land, or ground lease, or what?

If tickets are required, then yes, you need secure entry.

The parking has been ok from what I've seen. Is there currently an agreement with the mall to use their space? If not, could it be negotiated to have dedicated area for an event? Would that be less expensive that other options?

I'm sure the facility would do well with some renovation and upgrades. Take a look at Round Rock Amp. It has none of the amenities yet does quite well.

A promoter, not a city employee, should be organizing the events. I think that would create much more exposure with an experienced promoter.

I realize that your question was not directed to me, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of committing to a fixed restaurant building, possibly consider parking slabs for food trucks, with covered patio seating/standing at the top of the hill.

But, something would have to be done with the generator noise.

Just a thought.

Buford T. Justice said:

---

I realize that your question was not directed to me, but I would like to offer a suggestion. Instead of committing to a fixed restaurant building, possibly consider parking slabs for food trucks, with covered patio seating/standing at the top of the hill.

But, something would have to be done with the generator noise.

Just a thought.

---

Great idea. My thought process was:

1) Incentivize (without giving the farm away) a nice overlook restaurant with roll up glass garage style doors so they could be opened during nice weather and patrons sit on a patio style area and watch a concert.

2) The restaurant would be required to overbuild its parking lot because, when we do have large events out there, a massive number of cars line the streets and it's truly difficult to get in and out.

3) shade, seating and ticketed entry (not all the time on ticketed concerts. Just select events.)

4) Possibly….possibly- incentivize a nice private sector food/beverage facility in the old Sears service center. Also with expanded parking and a grander pedestrian entrance into WPC oriented from that north side.

WPC has never achieved its full potential in my mind. But, with relatively modest public investment and incentivized private sector participation perhaps could make that happen for the first time ever.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

How about we don't spend a bunch of money on something used 6-8 days per year and instead, allow food trucks to set up at the back of the grass area? Also most of the events start around dusk so shade seems like a horrible idea to me. Nobody attends or doesn't attend based on any of the things you've mentioned, those decisions are 100% based on who's playing. This sounds like CoCS over thinking and dreaming up more ways to spend money on things we don't need to me.

If we're talking about Wolf Pen Creek and the area around it, I remember years ago--maybe twenty at this point, there were more stores and restaurants to be set up along the trail near Cavender's. That's why Cavender's has that bland-looking "Wolf Pen Village" sign with that the only sign on it instead the more interesting neon signs seen elsewhere. (I think by the mid-2000s College Station had restrictive signage rules, so neon signage was probably doomed to never happen).

With the Sears Parts & Repair center now closed and the plan to make it a food hall fizzled out (not that the food hall plan was a good one), that whole strip could be redeveloped into something interesting (Cavender's can stay). I can't think of anything else that would really work with that narrow space, and Central Park is just so close and fulfills a lot of the stuff Wolf Pen Creek Park doesn't.

EliteElectric said:

---

How about we don't spend a bunch of money on something used 6-8 days per year and instead, allow food trucks to set up at the back of the grass area? Also most of the events start around dusk so shade seems like a horrible idea to me. Nobody attends or doesn't attend based on any of the things you've mentioned, those decisions are 100% based on who's playing. This sounds like CoCS over thinking and dreaming up more ways to spend money on things we don't need to me.

---

100% this

I have called it wolf pen drainage ditch and swamp hole since construction. I was one of the citizens that voted against the bond and livid when they took other money and built the amphitheater anyway. Then the dredging for big cash twice.
I often suggested we send a letter to the national swamp buggy association and see if we could hold a event here. Perfect sippy hole.

AggiePhil said:

---

PS3D said:

---

If we're talking about Wolf Pen Creek and the area around it, I remember years ago--maybe twenty at this point, there were more stores and restaurants to be set up along the trail near Cavender's. That's why Cavender's has that bland-looking "Wolf Pen Village" sign with that the only sign on it instead the more interesting neon signs seen elsewhere.

---

Very interesting. I'd never noticed this before. In the 90s, I believe it was a nursery. But the 2000s, Cavender's had relocated there from Harvey Road in front of Toys"R"Us. Around 2015, they enlarged the building onto more of the old nursery slab (it still doesn't take up the whole thing). A bit off-topic though, so I digress...

---

That's correct, though the slab is from the greenhouses, not the main building. Now interestingly, if you take a look at this article from 1993, that was the original plan even back in the early 1990s (the artist rendering is wrong, the building was on the right side, the buildings on the left) and the idea all along was to have the "businesses and the park merge together", and both this and when Cavender's replaced Wolfe Nursery a decade later (Wolfe Nursery closed in 1997--the whole chain followed suit soon after) that corridor was far more viable than it is now, particularly Post Oak Mall which was still doing okay in 2004. (It's difficult to pinpoint when exactly this happened--it was suffering before 2020 and I would put the terminal decline around 2009 with the shuttering of the customer service desk and the end of printed mall directories).

I'm sure the city would love to come up with some master plan that would incorporate Wolf Pen Creek Park into something to replace the mall, but the mall is a separate issue.

Back on Wolf Pen Creek Park, does it need to be changed? I remember being very upset as a child when "improvements" got rid of the main lake and left an ugly creek with a bridge that was too big for it (apparently this was to fix the silt issue), and various "enhancements" over the years since just boil down to new concrete.

PS3D said:

---

AggiePhil said:

---

PS3D said:

---

If we're talking about Wolf Pen Creek and the area around it, I remember years ago--maybe twenty at this point, there were more stores and restaurants to be set up along the trail near Cavender's. That's why Cavender's has that bland-looking "Wolf Pen Village" sign with that the only sign on it instead the more interesting neon signs seen elsewhere.

---

Very interesting. I'd never noticed this before. In the 90s, I believe it was a nursery. But the 2000s, Cavender's had relocated there from Harvey Road in front of Toys"R"Us. Around 2015, they enlarged the building onto more of the old nursery slab (it still doesn't take up the whole thing). A bit off-topic though, so I digress...

---

That's correct, though the slab is from the greenhouses, not the main building. Now interestingly, if you take a look at this article from 1993, that was the original plan even back in the early 1990s (the artist rendering is wrong, the building was on the right side, the buildings on the left) and the idea all along was to have the "businesses and the park merge together", and both this and when Cavender's replaced Wolfe Nursery a decade later (Wolfe Nursery closed in 1997--the whole chain followed suit soon after) that corridor was far more viable than it is now, particularly Post Oak Mall which was still doing okay in 2004. (It's difficult to pinpoint when exactly this happened--it was suffering before 2020 and I would put the terminal decline around 2009 with the shuttering of the customer service desk and the end of printed mall directories).

I'm sure the city would love to come up with some master plan that would incorporate Wolf Pen Creek Park into something to replace the mall, but the mall is a separate issue.

Back on Wolf Pen Creek Park, does it need to be changed? I remember being very upset as a child when "improvements" got rid of the main lake and left an ugly creek with a bridge that was too big for it (apparently this was to fix the silt issue), and various "enhancements" over the years since just boil down to new concrete.

---

Ok this article is a fascinating trip down memory lane. Thanks for this!

Respectfully

Yancy '95

Wolf pen was designed to run from Texas Ave to highway 6. Land owners along the creek donated portions of their land to the cause. This of course was before the vote on the funds which was defeated. I believe it was a grant that COCS used along with other unencumbered funds to skip the will of the voters and build the amphitheater in the lower portion. Nice blocks surrounding the lake, grand bridge etc. Then after heavy runoff the lake was the mud pit and the dredge arrived, and everything was good again. Then rain arrived again, how inconsiderate. Then dredge 2. People then ask why is this happening. Oh the upstream portion of the design had multiple detention sites and direction changes design to moderate the flow rate through the channel. Yep easy fix to the silt problem, build the design not a small portion on the lower end and expect it to stay that way. So the fix, just let it fill in. There were a few napkin drawings I saw that basically piped the main channel under the lake area and allowed only a small flow to fill the lake.
I never believed it was going to be the River Walk of College Station, even if they built convention center there on Hollemen.

Here's what one private sector group wants to do, at no expense to the taxpayer. (See images) These would be leasehold improvements done at their expense and they would be responsible for booking talent during the leased nights. The taxpayers would receive lease payments and the community would benefit from overnight tourism, timed with other sports tourism events, and enhance entertainment options.

Thoughts? Respectfully,

Yancy '95

That looks like a smaller version of Mitchell Pavilion in the Woodlands.

I like it.

Mr. Yancey- this is a great idea. I'm thinking a nice venue would bring in great music artists. This concept the private developers are proposing would put both College Statin and Bryan on the right tract to compete with other music venues around the state. Keep up the creative thinking.

Bob Yancy said:

---

Here's what one private sector group wants to do, at no expense to the taxpayer.

---

This is the only way any of this should happen.

There's always a catch.

There's really only a couple of choices here.

1. Invest and improve.

2. Let it be a "not often enough used" asset that continues to degrade to the point where eventually we can use it as a set for zombie Apocalypse movies.

I'm good with either.

Also, surprised no one at CoCS has suggested it might make a great convention center or YMCA.