CS City Council Place 5 - Data Center Update

111,981 Views | 945 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by Hornbeck
powerbelly
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Bitcoin mining is worse case scenario, but it being a data center isn't good either.
doubledog
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Hornbeck said:

So, the CEO of Priority Power came out on KBTX, and said, "this is an AI data center".






Quote:

Priority Power is an independent energy management services and consulting firm. We act as an extension of our client's staff to develop and implement strategies that mitigate risk and overcome challenges associated with managing energy data, supply, demand, and delivery infrastructure. By leveraging our deep experience and resources, combined with unsurpassed commitment, Priority delivers financial and operational improvements to our clients as their trusted energy advisors.


Priority power is a energy management service. They work for a client. That client may be an AI company but it can also be a BITCOIN company tomorrow. So technically the CEO is not lying as of this morning.
hot dog
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powerbelly said:

Bitcoin mining is worse case scenario, but it being a data center isn't good either.


Highlighting this. It's the same damn problem.
etj77845
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Significantly a community in NC is facing the same issue.

Quote:

Tarboro, North Carolina, residents are urging their town council to reject a proposal for a 50-acre, 300-megawatt Energy Storage Solutions LLC site projected to bring 500 jobs and millions of dollars in tax revenue to the town.
"This project poses significant risks that outweigh any potential benefits, not only to those living nearby but to the entire town," Cynthia Coker wrote in a statement attached to a Change.org petition she created. "The serene environment, character, and community cohesion we cherish in Tarboro could be dramatically altered by the presence of such a massive facility."
Coker went on to say, "Data centers are notorious for consuming enormous amounts of electricity and water, leading to increased utility rates and depletion of local resources."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/north-caroilna-residents-fight-back-against-massive-tech-project-potentially-coming-their-town


COCS should tread very carefully with this issue. BUT I figure as usual council will be seduced by the dollar and not their constituents voices. I'd like to be proven wrong, but it isn't their history.
nthomas99
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exMachina said:

I have been struggling with the question of who exactly wants this deal. In the grand scheme of things, 30 million is peanuts. To reinforce this point, this would correspond to $250 per College Station resident, assuming Priority Power buys the entire lot.

Then, why would the city want a project like this? I think the obvious answer was given by Bob Yancy during the town hall. He described the city government as a service provider, offering services such as trash collection, water, and electricity. From this perspective, acquiring a client that would likely require more services than all of their current "customers" makes sense to them. The only issue here is that, unlike a private utility company, maximizing revenues is not consistent with maximizing the well-being of its stakeholders (us/residents of College Station). A simple example would be that the city could raise the cost of electricity tomorrow and likely generate more revenue, and most residents would not be better off.

Another reason to proceed with the sale is that the benefits from the transaction will be accrued soon, likely with this administration. In contrast, the costs will accrue in years to come, likely with another administration. Moreover, the current administration could always argue that they built in the correct measures into the contract, but their successors failed to regulate the data center/crypto mine effectively.



Because being a service provider is not the true mandate of civil government. Serving is the mandate. Serving the will of the people and the common good, profit be d$$ned.

That little misunderstanding of mandate leads to a business mentality to maximizes profits to do more "stuff" and justifies this current crazy triangle of the power to tax together with land and utility ownership. We give power to the civil government that we don't give to private industry. When the former starts acting like the latter and quite literally takes the means of production because they can, well, I hope we all know what that leads to.

I've had quite a few conversation this last week with people from all walks of life. Most don't like it. Nobody thinks it's a slam dunk. But everyone thinks the current contract and the way the whole ordeal was hidden from the public without cause is nuts.

MUAG
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Mr Yancy, you do realize all the numbers you will see from folks involved will be highly optimistic about the project and diminish the very real problems of water and power consumption and noise long term. All those producing the numbers stand to benefit if the project is approved. City employees will be thinking of nice raises from the influx of money.
.Posters here have done a nice job of pointing out the long term damage that would result from this project being approved. Please listen to them.
MUAG
ElephantRider
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woodiewood1 said:

Many data center are built at bitcoin mining sites due to the availability of energy infrastructure being already available to a degree, but you can have a data center and not be at all involved in crypto mining activities. In fact most aren't.


"It's impossible to provide an exact number of data centers that are not Bitcoin miners because there is no publicly available, real-time global registry of all data centers and their specific functions. However, the vast majority of data centers globally are not Bitcoin miners. Bitcoin mining data centers are a niche segment of the overall data center market, which supports a wide range of other services like cloud computing, email, and video calls. "

We need to stop the commenting that this is a bitcoin mining operation, but a data center that is going to use both water and electricity that is not currently available and might severely affect the future electricity and water needs of our growing city,

The agreement with the site tenant/owner needs to state that CS utilities will not supply any water or electricity to the operation. Let them generate their own or buy electricity on the open market and drill their own water well.

I think the location is the wrong location for a data center, but it isn't necessarily a bitcoin mining operation,



Even if they buy electricity on the open market, they would still have to use our local grid to consume it. This has been stated multiple times. The power market is like a big pool; generators are dumping water in, consumers are scooping it out via their local grid. If I execute a contract with a generator for a gallon of water, there's no way for me to get that specific gallon of water that they dumped in; I just get a gallon of water out of the pool, and in this case CSU (and BTU) is the bucket. Where this is going to be an issue for us, is the size of our bucket. This data center can go buy 100 gallons of water, but if CSU/BTU can only handle 50 gallons on top of what the community already needs, then what happens?
ag4christ19
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I closed the email I sent to the mayor and council members with their mission statement"On behalf of the citizens of College Station, home of Texas A&M University, the council will promote and advance the community's quality of life." I fail to see how selling this land to Priority Power Management, LLC advances the quality of life for most of the residents of the community.

Council members need to remember their mission.
maroon barchetta
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MUAG said:

Mr Yancy, you do realize all the numbers you will see from folks involved will be highly optimistic about the project and diminish the very real problems of water and power consumption and noise long term. All those producing the numbers stand to benefit if the project is approved. City employees will be thinking of nice raises from the influx of money.
.Posters here have done a nice job of pointing out the long term damage that would result from this project being approved. Please listen to them.


Does he regret starting this thread? Probably not, it got the word out and made him look better than the rest of the council and the mayor.

However, he can no longer (along with his usual fanboy) point at "a handful of naysayers" being the only people in opposition to this plan, while claiming to have heard a lot of positives from outside this thread.

The Aggieland Board has not had a thread like this since…maybe ever? Never has this board been so united.

Everyone has done a good job of making their displeasure known. And their distrust of city leadership.

I would also like to thank Staff for letting this thread take the direction it took without them having to step in.
EliteElectric
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I think that town hall was also an eye opener. Both back rooms at Coopers were SRO
MUAG
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I sent slightly modified versions of my message above to Yancy and Nichols, Again, asking Yancy to read the great messages you have posted on here, Nichols, added the quality of life issue. Only posting this to thank all you that have researched and made such good points on why this needs to be rejected. thank much

MUAG
Hornbeck
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Here is a question.

Why is Rusty Surette negotiating concessions from the seller that city staffers could not or would not?

Then Rusty makes a post saying "CEO says "it's not bitcoin!""

If this thing is so great, let Mr. Schwertner '99 (Aggie football player) build this in Montgomery County next to his house in The Woodlands.
Bob Yancy
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MUAG said:

Mr Yancy, you do realize all the numbers you will see from folks involved will be highly optimistic about the project and diminish the very real problems of water and power consumption and noise long term. All those producing the numbers stand to benefit if the project is approved. City employees will be thinking of nice raises from the influx of money.
.Posters here have done a nice job of pointing out the long term damage that would result from this project being approved. Please listen to them.


I'm sorry I have not responded to the (literally) thousands of emails that we have received but I just saw your question. Yes I take everything with a grain of salt. I'm neck deep in a 1000 page agenda right now. See y'all tonight.

Respectfully

Yancy '95
ElephantRider
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maroon barchetta said:

MUAG said:

Mr Yancy, you do realize all the numbers you will see from folks involved will be highly optimistic about the project and diminish the very real problems of water and power consumption and noise long term. All those producing the numbers stand to benefit if the project is approved. City employees will be thinking of nice raises from the influx of money.
.Posters here have done a nice job of pointing out the long term damage that would result from this project being approved. Please listen to them.


Does he regret starting this thread? Probably not, it got the word out and made him look better than the rest of the council and the mayor.

However, he can no longer (along with his usual fanboy) point at "a handful of naysayers" being the only people in opposition to this plan, while claiming to have heard a lot of positives from outside this thread.

The Aggieland Board has not had a thread like this since…maybe ever? Never has this board been so united.

Everyone has done a good job of making their displeasure known. And their distrust of city leadership.

I would also like to thank Staff for letting this thread take the direction it took without them having to step in.

I think Brian Alg is the only supporter
doubledog
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So let's clear this up, before the big council meeting.

  • Priority power, a energy management service, is facilitating a deal for someone (unnamed) who wants to build a data center.
  • The unnamed agent may lease out space in the center for one or more clients (we do not know).
  • The citizens of College Station, have no idea who will be the lessee(s) are or will be (at this time).
  • We the citizens, through CoCS utilities, will need to provide power and water to Priority power, which we may or may not presently have.
  • We the citizens will need to put up with the noise pollution the data center will generate.
  • We the citizens will not have a say in this at all, except to speak at the meeting.
Is there anything I have missed?

doubledog
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Bob Yancy said:

MUAG said:

Mr Yancy, you do realize all the numbers you will see from folks involved will be highly optimistic about the project and diminish the very real problems of water and power consumption and noise long term. All those producing the numbers stand to benefit if the project is approved. City employees will be thinking of nice raises from the influx of money.
.Posters here have done a nice job of pointing out the long term damage that would result from this project being approved. Please listen to them.


I'm sorry I have not responded to the (literally) thousands of emails that we have received but I just saw your question. Yes I take everything with a grain of salt. I'm neck deep in a 1000 page agenda right now. See y'all tonight.

Respectfully

Yancy '95


1000 page agenda? Yet another good reason to postpone the data center discussion until another time.

The phrase "bury them in paper work" applies to this council meeting.
ElephantRider
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doubledog said:

So let's clear this up, before the big council meeting.

  • Priority power, a energy management service, wants to build a data center.
  • Priority power or one of its agents will then lease out space in the center for one or more clients.
  • The citizens of College Station, have no idea who will be the lessee(s) are or will be (at this time).
  • We the citizens, through CoCS utilities, will need to provide power and water to Priority power, which we may or may not presently have.
  • We the citizens will need to put up with the noise pollution the data center will generate.
  • We the citizens will not have a say in this at all, except to speak at the meeting.
Is there anything I have missed?



They're facilitating this deal for someone who wants to build a data center. They do not build or operate data centers
Koko Chingo
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On the 'provide power' power piece. It gets muddy. SB6 discusses this but is not perfectly clear. It says they will have to 'contribute'.

To me that doesn't sound like pay for everything, and I would imagine they were only going to bring in the minimum required. This is all regulated by ERCOT and the Texas PUC.

Depending on their agreement with ERCOT, We may also have to pay the new place place millions to throttle back during an emergency. Which has not yet been defined. But the city city has no say in what an emergency is that is up to ercot. They are still finalizing the rulebook to be implemented January 1. So we don't even know what all the implications are until that is implemented.

Also ERCOT doesn't regulate the water. I guess that's all CSU.

Trying to cram while they all had a year + to prepare
91_Aggie
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Bryan Woods, once again, working behind the scenes to ruin our city. Why is he still employed??
doubledog
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ElephantRider said:

doubledog said:

So let's clear this up, before the big council meeting.

  • Priority power, a energy management service, wants to build a data center.
  • Priority power or one of its agents will then lease out space in the center for one or more clients.
  • The citizens of College Station, have no idea who will be the lessee(s) are or will be (at this time).
  • We the citizens, through CoCS utilities, will need to provide power and water to Priority power, which we may or may not presently have.
  • We the citizens will need to put up with the noise pollution the data center will generate.
  • We the citizens will not have a say in this at all, except to speak at the meeting.
Is there anything I have missed?



They're facilitating this deal for someone who wants to build a data center. They do not build or operate data centers

Thanks I fixed my first post.
Koko Chingo
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Also please double check my work. I will not be offended at all if I am wrong. Trying to decipher the legalese in a State Senate bill is not my forte.

Additionally, the timing of this whole thing is terrible because ERCOT is currently writing the rulebook on how payments for voluntarily throttling, disconnecting large users over 75 megawatts, and what constitutes an emergency?

That doesn't have to be done until the end of the year because it will take effect January 1. Yet we have just hours remaining to present our case.
2020
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91_Aggie said:

Bryan Woods, once again, working behind the scenes to ruin our city. Why is he still employed??


Cannot emphasize this enough!
FHKPLEX03
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edited because PP committed at the council meeting to striking references to crypto mining from the contract..
SCHTICK00
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doubledog said:

So let's clear this up, before the big council meeting.

  • Priority power, a energy management service, is facilitating a deal for someone (unnamed) who wants to build a data center.
  • The unnamed agent may lease out space in the center for one or more clients (we do not know).
  • The citizens of College Station, have no idea who will be the lessee(s) are or will be (at this time).
  • We the citizens, through CoCS utilities, will need to provide power and water to Priority power, which we may or may not presently have.
  • We the citizens will need to put up with the noise pollution the data center will generate.
  • We the citizens will not have a say in this at all, except to speak at the meeting.
Is there anything I have missed?




I'll add that turning this location into a single use industrial park while bringing in negligible jobs that do nothing to promote retail in the area does not increase the quality of life for the residents. To the contrary it will be a nuisance
Aggieland Proud
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Sorry, everyone, but I am still stuck on why in the he!! is the City of College Station in the real estate business. I'll catch up someday! See you tonight!!
dubi
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Quote:

This will affect BTU customers as well; we're all in this together from a grid perspective. Right now, only a limited amount of power can get into BCS. CSU, the DC, or whoever can go purchase all of the power contracts they want, but right now only so much would actually be able to get into town. Our import paths consist of a double-circuit 138kV line to the TMPA Jack Creek Switch and a handful of single-circuit 138s from Gibbons Creek. BTU and CSU can only bring in a certain amount, and this facility alone would use almost double the amount that the entire CoCS uses now.

Scary facts!
Aggie_Fire
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Aggieland Proud said:

Sorry, everyone, but I am still stuck on why in the he!! is the City of College Station in the real estate business. I'll catch up someday! See you tonight!!

I said it earlier on a post about 300 messages ago, so I don't mind saying it again. This is a prime example WHY the City is in the real estate business to ENSURE they have control over facilities and businesses like this building in certain areas. IF THIS WAS PRIVATE PROPERTY, you would have no say in this and it would most likely become a data center assuming they had the infrastructure available. If the flat lot in NG was not owned by the City, it would be a high-rise by now.

The City buys property and sometimes uses that property to incentivize businesses to come build here like with what they did to entice Costco to build here. The City of Bryan did it with their business park area they owned near the north side of their city. You don't have to agree with it, but it is common practice.
Brian Alg
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Happy to be corrected, but I don't see anybody buying land in CSU territory with the intention of putting in a datacenter unless they expect to get a sweetheart deal from the City with respect to utilities. With electricity being such a huge input to the business (or at least that's what I have heard), it doesn't make sense without a break on electricity costs that nobody but the City could provide. Otherwise they'd be paying that mondo premium on electricity rates that most College Station residents are stuck with.

I could easily be missing something, though. I don't have experience with datacenters. I'm just an economist.
Brian Alg

My words are not intended to be disrespectful to any of the staid and venerable members of College Station City Council
maroon barchetta
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Yep.

That's what I was hinting at on Page 4(?)

There is going to be some kind of abatement to convince them to buy this land at this price. Either taxes or utilities or both.

Do not expect this data center to pay the same rate per kWh that the serfs pay. Or the same rate per 5,000 gallons of water used.
Hornbeck
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OK, which one of you did this?

Aggieland Proud
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I would think the city can go do just fine using regulations, restrictions, zoning, and ordinances to control development without resorting to ownership. I'm trying to get there but just can't!!
ElephantRider
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Koko Chingo said:

On the 'provide power' power piece. It gets muddy. SB6 discusses this but is not perfectly clear. It says they will have to 'contribute'.

To me that doesn't sound like pay for everything, and I would imagine they were only going to bring in the minimum required. This is all regulated by ERCOT and the Texas PUC.

Depending on their agreement with ERCOT, We may also have to pay the new place place millions to throttle back during an emergency. Which has not yet been defined. But the city city has no say in what an emergency is that is up to ercot. They are still finalizing the rulebook to be implemented January 1. So we don't even know what all the implications are until that is implemented.

Also ERCOT doesn't regulate the water. I guess that's all CSU.

Trying to cram while they all had a year + to prepare

They have to pay the cost to interconnect their facility. They will pay for a CSU switchyard and a transmission line connecting that switchyard to their substation. That is their responsibility. The issues on the power side go way beyond that.
woodiewood1
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At bare minimum, the proposed location due to the residential and retail nature is the wrong location for this type of business., Probably a dozen other locations in the county makes more sense than this one,....North Bryan off of 2818, Down Hwy 6 half way to Navasota, out hwy 60 west in the industrial area, Rellis campus, south down Hwy 30 near where it intersects with Fitch are just a few,

As far as other locations, there needs to be an extensive study to determine, one, the amount of water, electricity and other resources that will be needed and also what will be the cost to the taxpayers to supply it, and two, because there are more than a hundred data centers already in Texas, an evaluation of those that are currently operation and their effect on the location and the increased costs to their citizens,

Stewade
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Staff
AG
Are you allowed to bring a shop vac that's as loud as these facilities to the meeting tonight? I say 10 people line up back-to-back and just run that thing for their entire speaking time so our friends at city hall can enjoy the same noise that residents will get to enjoy in their backyards 24/7.

BTHO DATA CENTERS!!!
txgardengirl
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But those don't return utility revenue to the republic of college station to transfer to the general fund...
 
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