Hot dogs, like BBQ for Texas and a few other regions and cities, are one of those things that often gives one a sense of place.

One of the "nostalgia" elements that made the downtown JCI a city institution in its hey Day wasn't the decor or anything else that can be manufactured. I think it partially goes back to the lunch counter design that isn't popular anymore as we don't appreciate sharing our personal space.

JCI was one of those places the everyone went, no matter their job or background. Company presidents, bus drivers,

I can't speak as to the specifics to pre-civil rights era, but i know in recent decades it was one of those things that one could bond over no matter what race when meeting native Houstonians away from home.

And when there was one across from TAMU in the early 90's, people from Dallas just didn't get it. They looked at Houston folks like - it's just a hot dog and had no interest.

aggiepublius said:

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And when there was one across from TAMU in the early 90's, people from Dallas just didn't get it. They looked at Houston folks like - it's just a hot dog and had no interest.

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Not growing up in Houston and then moving here out of college, this whole thread is bizarre to me.

1) Someone likes hotdogs enough to reach out to the President of the company. Who does that?

2) The President of a company agrees to meet with the person to discuss company strategy. What President does that?

3) There are apparently a bunch of you that are nostalgic for a hot dog restaurant.

4) Hot Dog restaurant apparently thinks they can get $10+ for a lunch combo...

I ate there one time with my FIL and BIL (both Houstonians) at one off 1960 somewhere like 15 years ago. I am pretty sure Sonic makes a better hot dog, not that I have bought one there. But the hot dog was alright, chili was probably about like Wolf Brand quality. Never went back, haven't missed it...

Do you guys miss Steak and Ale & Sizzler as well?

Yeah you don't get it. And that's ok. It's a Houston thing.

And the president reached out to me after a Facebook comment. I didn't reach out to him.

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I am pretty sure Sonic makes a better hot dog, not that I have bought one there.

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sonics hot dog is great. particularly if you line up your tots along the top like ants on a log.

I never thought I'd find someone who put so much thought and time into ****in James Coney Island.

Funny I don't feel like I put that much time or thought into it. Maybe thought just comes more easily for me...

For anyone interested I sent these final comments to Darrin today...


Darrin, Just a couple of summary thoughts on our meeting from a few weeks ago. I've really been milling it over and just feel the need to convey some of my final thoughts to you. Given my lack of experience they may very well be worth absolutely nothing to you but on the off chance you can get something from it, here it is.

I know I'm just some guy with little experience in the restaurant industry, but what I also am is a very very active eater in the Houston restaurant scene. Why else would I be so concerned with the fate of JCI as the Houston Institution that it has become, so much so as to come meet with the President of the company to discuss my concerns? Food, cooking and eating are my hobbies and it's something I study pretty well daily.

Thoughts:

1: The younger crowd of hip 22-29 year olds love delicious food but also relish in (forgive the language) **** food at the same time. I really think to become a draw to this crowd, JCI needs to pick one direction and stay in that lane. It's very hard to diversify so much as to do a "gourmet" dog menu and what is essentially the White Castle Burger of hotdogs or slider type dog within the same concept and have both be successful. They're too diametrically opposed. It doesn't appeal to that 22-29 year old demo that you're diversifying your menu. Look at food Mecca's like Chicago, New York, Tokyo and LA. Small, specialty restaurants specializing in very limited, highly focused menus are what the 22-29 year old crowd is looking for. Places like Fuddruckers, Red Robin and 5 Guys went the route of an upscale, better burger. That's what they do and that's it. McD's, Wendy's, BK, JITB and the rest consistently try to diversify into this market and fail. Some upscale pretzel bun, artisan cheese burger comes out, does poorly and is pulled inside of a year. Happens regularly. So again, I say pick a lane and stay in it. Your menu is too fractured. Either stay legacy or don't. I know the studies you did said they wanted healthier and different options. I fully believe those studies to be flawed. I don't think the right groups were polled.

2: There's a trend towards specialty restaurants that essentially do one thing very well... See Ramen trend. See Bahn Mi trend. See taco truck trend. See the elote guy on Long Point. See the entire BBQ industry. See steakhouses everywhere. Gone are the days of generic restaurants ala Bennigans or TGI Friday's where there's something for everyone at mediocre quality and price. They're relegated to mall branches and suburban strip centers. Today's 22-29 year old crowd knows what they're going to order before they get in the car to drive to your restaurant. That's the popular thing. Key word, "cravability." In a world where people are on such strict and harsh diets as Keto, Atkins, gluten free, etc etc, and especially in a world (and demographic) where meal prepping is the weekly ritual (both for diet and cost savings) your only hope for repeat business is regular diners and the occasional craving seeker. You either make it a ritual (ala standing in line for BBQ or Sunday brunch), or you make it something special. That's what makes things popular in food culture today. The everyday, "pop in for a bite" type business just isn't a thing anymore in the demographic you've stated interest in targeting. Particularly at your price point. Meals are no longer a necessity, but an event. It's something the 22-29 year old group looks forward to enjoying and reveling in. You can play to that, but having a diverse menu isn't it.

3: In this same vein, I feel eliminating the "veto vote" strategy is a poor one at the end of the day. Unless you are single handedly trying to change a regions perception of the healthfulness of eating hotdogs, this is a fruitless endeavor. Everyone knows what you're walking into JCI for. It's Hotdogs. McDonalds doesn't make spaghetti, Chipotle doesn't make sushi, Chick-fil-a doesn't make hotdogs and JCI shouldn't make salads and chicken strips. The veto vote appears to be a very small sliver of a demographic and once again, skewing to the "have something for everyone" group of lunch crowd isn't going to play well with that key demo of 22-29 year olds you're shooting for. It's not specialty.

4: It's too late for this but while the inside of the restaurants is nice, once again, I feel you may have been working from information that wasn't moving you in the right direction. While the inside of a restaurant is certainly something to be considered in extreme cases, seeing as no one wants to eat in squalor or one certainly would feel out of place to snarf down a chili dog while amongst white table cloths and crystal chandeliers, it's ultimately a pretty minor element as it pertains to the entire experience. Once again, Example: Food trucks. They offer ZERO ambiance, charging stations for phones, yellow light, even air conditioning or in most cases, don't even offer tables for goodness sake Yet they continue to be tremendously popular. Why? Specialized menus making a specific item very very well.

After a few weeks of considering everything you were so kind to share with me, I have finally decided that these were my final thoughts on the subject. Darrin, I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that your experience in the industry is as high a quality as your pedigree in the industry suggests. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and your efforts ARE and WILL keep JCI not just afloat but bustling. Given my admitted level of ignorance of the industry, I apparently can't see how it's a successful strategy. In my eyes you bemoan the down turn of consistent repeat business but you've done everything you possibly can to make your single namesake item as least cravable as possible by surrounding it with an environment not suited to it, by putting it on a menu with things unlike it and sequestering it to a very small portion of your menu when it's supposed to be the main event.

I know this message comes off as pretentious and that I'm just another one of those guys who thinks he knows an industry he has no experience in. And perhaps that's true. I'm just sharing my thoughts here.

I do wish you all the best and hope to frequent your restaurants again soon. Maybe I'll run into you! I hope to.

phideaux_2003 said:

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For anyone interested I sent these final comments to Darrin today...


Darrin, Just a couple of summary thoughts on our meeting from a few weeks ago. I've really been milling it over and just feel the need to convey some of my final thoughts to you. Given my lack of experience they may very well be worth absolutely nothing to you but on the off chance you can get something from it, here it is.

I know I'm just some guy with little experience in the restaurant industry, but what I also am is a very very active eater in the Houston restaurant scene. Why else would I be so concerned with the fate of JCI as the Houston Institution that it has become, so much so as to come meet with the President of the company to discuss my concerns? Food, cooking and eating are my hobbies and it's something I study pretty well daily.

Thoughts:

1: The younger crowd of hip 22-29 year olds love delicious food but also relish in (forgive the language) **** food at the same time. I really think to become a draw to this crowd, JCI needs to pick one direction and stay in that lane. It's very hard to diversify so much as to do a "gourmet" dog menu and what is essentially the White Castle Burger of hotdogs or slider type dog within the same concept and have both be successful. They're too diametrically opposed. It doesn't appeal to that 22-29 year old demo that you're diversifying your menu. Look at food Mecca's like Chicago, New York, Tokyo and LA. Small, specialty restaurants specializing in very limited, highly focused menus are what the 22-29 year old crowd is looking for. Places like Fuddruckers, Red Robin and 5 Guys went the route of an upscale, better burger. That's what they do and that's it. McD's, Wendy's, BK, JITB and the rest consistently try to diversify into this market and fail. Some upscale pretzel bun, artisan cheese burger comes out, does poorly and is pulled inside of a year. Happens regularly. So again, I say pick a lane and stay in it. Your menu is too fractured. Either stay legacy or don't. I know the studies you did said they wanted healthier and different options. I fully believe those studies to be flawed. I don't think the right groups were polled.

2: There's a trend towards specialty restaurants that essentially do one thing very well... See Ramen trend. See Bahn Mi trend. See taco truck trend. See the elote guy on Long Point. See the entire BBQ industry. See steakhouses everywhere. Gone are the days of generic restaurants ala Bennigans or TGI Friday's where there's something for everyone at mediocre quality and price. They're relegated to mall branches and suburban strip centers. Today's 22-29 year old crowd knows what they're going to order before they get in the car to drive to your restaurant. That's the popular thing. Key word, "cravability." In a world where people are on such strict and harsh diets as Keto, Atkins, gluten free, etc etc, and especially in a world (and demographic) where meal prepping is the weekly ritual (both for diet and cost savings) your only hope for repeat business is regular diners and the occasional craving seeker. You either make it a ritual (ala standing in line for BBQ or Sunday brunch), or you make it something special. That's what makes things popular in food culture today. The everyday, "pop in for a bite" type business just isn't a thing anymore in the demographic you've stated interest in targeting. Particularly at your price point. Meals are no longer a necessity, but an event. It's something the 22-29 year old group looks forward to enjoying and reveling in. You can play to that, but having a diverse menu isn't it.

3: In this same vein, I feel eliminating the "veto vote" strategy is a poor one at the end of the day. Unless you are single handedly trying to change a regions perception of the healthfulness of eating hotdogs, this is a fruitless endeavor. Everyone knows what you're walking into JCI for. It's Hotdogs. McDonalds doesn't make spaghetti, Chipotle doesn't make sushi, Chick-fil-a doesn't make hotdogs and JCI shouldn't make salads and chicken strips. The veto vote appears to be a very small sliver of a demographic and once again, skewing to the "have something for everyone" group of lunch crowd isn't going to play well with that key demo of 22-29 year olds you're shooting for. It's not specialty.

4: It's too late for this but while the inside of the restaurants is nice, once again, I feel you may have been working from information that wasn't moving you in the right direction. While the inside of a restaurant is certainly something to be considered in extreme cases, seeing as no one wants to eat in squalor or one certainly would feel out of place to snarf down a chili dog while amongst white table cloths and crystal chandeliers, it's ultimately a pretty minor element as it pertains to the entire experience. Once again, Example: Food trucks. They offer ZERO ambiance, charging stations for phones, yellow light, even air conditioning or in most cases, don't even offer tables for goodness sake Yet they continue to be tremendously popular. Why? Specialized menus making a specific item very very well.

After a few weeks of considering everything you were so kind to share with me, I have finally decided that these were my final thoughts on the subject. Darrin, I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that your experience in the industry is as high a quality as your pedigree in the industry suggests. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and your efforts ARE and WILL keep JCI not just afloat but bustling. Given my admitted level of ignorance of the industry, I apparently can't see how it's a successful strategy. In my eyes you bemoan the down turn of consistent repeat business but you've done everything you possibly can to make your single namesake item as least cravable as possible by surrounding it with an environment not suited to it, by putting it on a menu with things unlike it and sequestering it to a very small portion of your menu when it's supposed to be the main event.

I know this message comes off as pretentious and that I'm just another one of those guys who thinks he knows an industry he has no experience in. And perhaps that's true. I'm just sharing my thoughts here.

I do wish you all the best and hope to frequent your restaurants again soon. Maybe I'll run into you! I hope to.

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phideaux_2003 said:

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but what I also am is a very very active eater in the Houston restaurant scene

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JFC

I read it. And I agree with it.

BowSowy said:

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phideaux_2003 said:

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but what I also am is a very very active eater in the Houston restaurant scene

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JFC

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If you do not own, promote, or work in Houston restaurants, you are not a part of the "restaurant scene."

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And stupid.

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Thinking that "eating a lot of fast food" is some sort of professional credential is...to use your word, "stupid."

Eating a lot and writing a thesis to the president of a ****ty fast food chain does not make you part of the "restaurant scene". HTH