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$800million for unused generators

4,553 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 5 mo ago by TouchdownAggie04
Rongagin71
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AG
One fired exec, but the State wants more...
https://texasscorecard.com/state/texas-senators-grill-centerpoint-ceo-over-botched-hurricane-response/
Sea Speed
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AG
Generation was not the problem, it was transmission. What good is a generator going to do if you can't transmit the power?

This is not a defense of CP, just reality.
Flaith
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AG
I think it more ties to them making capital investments in worthless sheeit as a KPI vs. spending money on non-targeted programs like trimming trees. Incentives and KPIs should be tagged to uptime, and any project or investment to increase uptime should be incentivized and/or encouraged.
Sea Speed
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I don't disagree at all.
Milwaukees Best Light
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This is the generator manufacturer kicking back to execs at centerpoint and the law makers that found the way to fund this. Let no opportunity slip.
MrWonderful
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Sea Speed said:

Generation was not the problem, it was transmission. What good is a generator going to do if you can't transmit the power?

This is not a defense of CP, just reality.
If you read the article or watched any of the hearing, the criticism was not about the generators not being used, it was that centerpoint went way deeper into mobile generation post-Uri than any other utility (500MW vs 11MW of next largest IIRC). On top of that, they went with the smaller company, and the bid was 50% higher than the larger company.

Reason being is they get their guaranteed rate of return return from the PUC on capital projects, not on maintenance costs. So they overbought and overpaid on generators.

ETA: Oh and the PUC blithely rubber stamped it all despite a judge denying the spend.
LostInLA07
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The last part of your post is being overlooked and, although they deserve it, the politicians are vilifying CenterPoint and completely ignoring the failure of the regulators.

The incentive for the utility to max out capex is supposed to be offset by the regulators oversight. Centerpoint couldn't have purchased the mobile generation and put it into rate base without approval from PUCT. More than likely a politician outside of Centerpoint wanted the mobile generation purchases to happen.

PUCT need their feet held to the fire as well and that hasn't happened yet.

The regulatory construct clearly incentives Centerpoint to buy mobile generation instead of trimming trees along transmission and major distribution lines, but the regulator is supposed to be the substitute for the market to offset that. Frankly I think placing a 0 allowable return on opex is a mistake that needs to be corrected, but I doubt it ever will be. Sometimes additional opex is much more cost efficient than a large capital project or purchase.

A quick example- on premises hosting of things like an outage map are capex. A cloud hosting provider is opex. No wonder CenterPoint tried their best to host their own outage map instead of making the overall more efficient decision of a cloud service. The regulator simply doesn't have the resources to oversee those relatively small decisions, but they add up. Imagine what else is flying under the radar.

Finally, keep in mind the absolute disaster the city of Austin was when they had an ice storm a few years ago. They were out of power for a long time in a lot of that city (because the city government wouldn't allow tree trimming because of the environment) and also pay a lot more for T&D than we do in Houston. Electrical transmission does make sense as a natural monopoly, so there have to be decisions made between cost of oversight, regulatory construct, and rates. There is not a perfect solution but at least we don't have a municipal run utility.
MrWonderful
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Agreed, two things can be true at the same time. But I agree with you the generator issue is on the regulator. They were gift wrapped a nice excuse to say no and still pushed it through.

Lot's of neighborhoods going to get wrecked when centerpoint sends it's next crew of trimmers out. They will be taking down every tree they can.
EclipseAg
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Trees are a no-win.

A few years ago, Centerpoint removed a tree adjacent to a family member's backyard. He went ballistic. Complained for weeks. Of course, had that tree knocked out his power some day, he would have also gone ballistic, claiming that Centerpoint didn't do its job.

In my suburban community, the city is pretty good at removing/cutting back trees but people throw a fit like they are killing kittens or something.
Flaith
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**** em.

I walked around my block the other day and noticed that 90% of the water oaks in my neighborhood of ~60 houses are dead/dying and already shedding limbs. Every single one of them needs to be cut down - there's already been at least 10 removed since last year's drought.
EclipseAg
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Flaith said:

I walked around my block the other day and noticed that 90% of the water oaks in my neighborhood of ~60 houses are dead/dying and already shedding limbs.
Yeah ... somehow this weird obsession with trees has taken hold. But most older homes have too many trees that are too big -- and too close to the house, street or other structures -- and are not healthy.

We plan on removing several soon.
texagbeliever
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EclipseAg said:

Trees are a no-win.

A few years ago, Centerpoint removed a tree adjacent to a family member's backyard. He went ballistic. Complained for weeks. Of course, had that tree knocked out his power some day, he would have also gone ballistic, claiming that Centerpoint didn't do its job.

In my suburban community, the city is pretty good at removing/cutting back trees but people throw a fit like they are killing kittens or something.
What is amazing to me is how it is Centerpoint's responsibility to remove all of these old trees that are dying and not the home owners / property owners. I get the trimming around power lines. But a tree 20 feet away falling over and wiping out a power line isn't really something Centerpoint can manage.

Really it is a wonder to me that insurance companies don't hire someone to check that there aren't large dying trees on a property they serve. Seems like they would have a significant incentive to encourage the removal as well.
htxag09
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texagbeliever said:

EclipseAg said:

Trees are a no-win.

A few years ago, Centerpoint removed a tree adjacent to a family member's backyard. He went ballistic. Complained for weeks. Of course, had that tree knocked out his power some day, he would have also gone ballistic, claiming that Centerpoint didn't do its job.

In my suburban community, the city is pretty good at removing/cutting back trees but people throw a fit like they are killing kittens or something.
What is amazing to me is how it is Centerpoint's responsibility to remove all of these old trees that are dying and not the home owners / property owners. I get the trimming around power lines. But a tree 20 feet away falling over and wiping out a power line isn't really something Centerpoint can manage.

Really it is a wonder to me that insurance companies don't hire someone to check that there aren't large dying trees on a property they serve. Seems like they would have a significant incentive to encourage the removal as well.
Yeah, it's wild.

There was a solid rant on my neighborhood facebook page about centerpoint removing trees on a line at someone's house but not the tree that fell on their house. And everyone was agreeing with them.

In regards to insurance.... They do. Most of them have models that scan satellite maps and will red flag a policy that has any tree, alive or dead, over the structure.
Thunder18
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Flaith said:

**** em.

I walked around my block the other day and noticed that 90% of the water oaks in my neighborhood of ~60 houses are dead/dying and already shedding limbs. Every single one of them needs to be cut down - there's already been at least 10 removed since last year's drought.


They're all probably at or getting close to the end of their lifespan. I've had to remove probably 40 water oaks from parks in the last 3 years alone and many more are on the schedule to get whacked in the next few years
bularry
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all I know is some generator salesman is living it up at the Paris Olympics...
Rongagin71
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A follow up...
https://texasscorecard.com/state/gov-abbott-accelerates-timeline-for-centerpoint-improvements-after-bashing-companys-response/
Dr. Doctor
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Realize this is an older post, but I read an article a while back that talked about improvements to the major grid lines and why it is difficult to get them. This was smaller, incremental improvements vs. large CAPEX projects. This article was talking about essentially installing a laser networked weather station at each major tower (think 375 kV line) or every XX number and the lasers are the internet to a node. This would provide more accurate data for current conditions to see how much power can actually go through the wires vs. assumed local conditions.

But this was like $300k or something and would/could net only like 5-15% increase in flow of power. While most other industries would jump for a return like that, power transmission doesn't, because of the CAPEX vs. OPEX return. Why get 5% return on 300k when you can get 5% on $5MM or $5 Billion?

There needs to be a refinement of the risk/OPEX/CAPEX model to include things like trimming, uptime and other things.

~egon
LostInLA07
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Laser networked weather stations sound like something the utility would bury into a larger multi billion "smart grid / resiliency project." But I'm sure you are correct that the utility would rather not spend effort on a sub million dollar project when they could try to combine a bunch of things into a multi billion dollar project.

Give the utility an allowable return on tree trimming and there wouldn't be a branch within 10 feet of a power line.

I'm sure there are a variety of reasons to not do this, but seems like it would align incentives by lowering allowable returns on capex and adding a return on opex such that the overall return for the utility remains about where it is currently.
Zobel
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The problem is one of aligned incentives. Every company has indirect expenses that are necessary to produce their product but don't go into direct product costs. They shouldn't get a return on indirect expenses as such... they should get an incentive based on their final product (like every other company). Seems like you should do it from end product backward, not opex out.

If their product is delivered power, they need to just be paid on delivered power. If you need to wrap that in a reliability guarantee, do it. Then let them manage their capex and opex to achieve a maximum return based on their product (like every other company). If they don't provide a good product, their revenue should take a hit.
MrWonderful
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How many more incentives do you need? They are a monopoly and are guaranteed not to go out of business. That's a pretty good incentive.

They need to risk losing money if they don't do basic, non-negotiable things like vegetative management, not get a return. Carrot and stick doesn't work as well if there is no stick. Then you find yourself where we are right now, with a company that is just chasing incentives instead of running a healthy business.

LostInLA07
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So…free market!

The regulated environment, at least as it currently exists, isn't set up that way. Rates are approved by PUCT based on recovery of opex (excluding some corporate functions), recovery of capital invested , debt service on capital and their allowable ROE. There's obviously more to it but that's my high level understanding.

Now, PUCT could require the utility to increase opex for more tree trimming…and the utility would get an associated rate increase to pay for it. But, there is also a really strong industry lobby in Centerpoint's service area that wants to keep rates as low as possible and aren't as concerned about reliability because they either tend to not be able to ship out refined products or receive new feed stock when there are hurricanes and widespread power outages. They also have on site backup generation.

Lots of factors at play here and I think it comes down to politicians as much as Centerpoint. Centerpoint showed quite a bit of incompetence but they do have the desire to keep their regulator (not necessarily their customers) happy. The regulators (PUCT board) are appointed by the governor and want to keep him happy. The governor wants campaign funds so as long as he isn't taking heat that will cost votes, he wants to keep the industry lobbyists happy. Industry lobbyists want the lowest possible rates. Local and state politicians want that as well because it attracts more business and therefore more tax revenue.

I'm not sure where residential customers come into play other than elections. And I doubt the result of an election will change because of this. Harris county is still going to elect the democrat nominee for county judge and the state is still going to elect the republican nominee for governor. No state reps seem to be taking any heat.
Zobel
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yeah I get it, I know how the system is set up. but you get what you incentivize for in this case. if you dont like what you get, that means youre pushing the wrong incentive (you can make the exact same case for ERCOT but I digress...)

my point is if you simplify the incentive to align it with what you actually want (reliably delivered power) you dont have to tinker with how to reimburse capex vs opex any more.
LostInLA07
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Completely agree
TouchdownAggie04
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Texas lawmakers blasting CenterPoint's generator deal also enabled it (houstonchronicle.com)

As someone who normally can't stand the Houston Chronicle, I must admit when credit is due. This recent article on the politicians involved in CenterPoint Energy's generator purchase is solid investigative journalism.

The article sheds light on the glaring contradictions between the politicians' past actions and their current statements. These lawmakers, who once facilitated CenterPoint's $800 million generator lease, are now the very ones lambasting the company for the decision.

It's a classic case of political amnesia, and thanks to the Chronicle's digging, these politicians have some serious explaining to do. They can't just erase their tracks and act shocked about the repercussions of a deal they endorsed.

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