I'm no legal expert, but does it make a difference that all parties listed with the Jeremiah group are / were long time members and leaders of the church? It's not a third party looking for a fight.
Anybody go to Second Baptist Church?
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Last: 2 days ago by Hub `93
I think Jeremiah Group is, by definition, a 3rd party. That's the point.
It makes a difference in the sense that a corporate entity --- a person in the eyes of the law --- is the one bringing the suit. If it were just a handful of second members in their individual capacity, it would be simple.
I'd have to do the research on the issue, but my guess is that it may skirt by given that all the members of the entity are also members at SB.
I'd have to do the research on the issue, but my guess is that it may skirt by given that all the members of the entity are also members at SB.
From the end of the article:
Didn't people pull up the names of the "Jeremiah Counsel" earlier in the thread?Quote:
Jeremiah Counsel has not disclosed the names of its members.
Interesting article. I think the author Mark Wingfield does a good job of summarizing the original petition to the court.
I think it would be prudent to point out that Mark Wingfield's views/beliefs probably do not align with the majority of 2nd Baptist Church members. He appears to be "pro" LGBTQ+-/$ & more liberal left leaning with respect to politics.
Trans issues:
https://baptistnews.com/article/the-ken-paxton-cruelty-show-continues/
School kids & to LGBTQ literature
https://baptistnews.com/article/supreme-court-hears-case-of-parents-wanting-to-opt-out-of-story-time/
Mark is also anti-trump.
https://baptistnews.com/article/if-jesus-loves-me-why-is-donald-trump-ruining-everything/
https://baptistnews.com/article/its-time-to-name-and-prosecute-trumps-minions/
https://baptistnews.com/article/trumps-attack-on-harvard-is-christian-universities-worst-nightmare/
I think it would be prudent to point out that Mark Wingfield's views/beliefs probably do not align with the majority of 2nd Baptist Church members. He appears to be "pro" LGBTQ+-/$ & more liberal left leaning with respect to politics.
Trans issues:
https://baptistnews.com/article/the-ken-paxton-cruelty-show-continues/
School kids & to LGBTQ literature
https://baptistnews.com/article/supreme-court-hears-case-of-parents-wanting-to-opt-out-of-story-time/
Mark is also anti-trump.
https://baptistnews.com/article/if-jesus-loves-me-why-is-donald-trump-ruining-everything/
https://baptistnews.com/article/its-time-to-name-and-prosecute-trumps-minions/
https://baptistnews.com/article/trumps-attack-on-harvard-is-christian-universities-worst-nightmare/
As a side note -- and not to derail this thread -- the breaking of so many evangelical talking head elites by Donald Trump will never not be funny to me. Mike Cosper, David French, Russell Moore, Beth Moore, Ray Ortlund etc. all act as if Trump was the first incredibly flawed man to ever hold elected office...and how dare a Christian vote for him.TJaggie14 said:
Interesting article. I think the author Mark Wingfield does a good job of summarizing the original petition to the court.
I think it would be prudent to point out that Mark Wingfield's views/beliefs probably do not align with the majority of 2nd Baptist Church members. He appears to be "pro" LGBTQ+-/$ & more liberal left leaning with respect to politics.
Trans issues:
https://baptistnews.com/article/the-ken-paxton-cruelty-show-continues/
School kids & to LGBTQ literature
https://baptistnews.com/article/supreme-court-hears-case-of-parents-wanting-to-opt-out-of-story-time/
Mark is also anti-trump.
https://baptistnews.com/article/if-jesus-loves-me-why-is-donald-trump-ruining-everything/
https://baptistnews.com/article/its-time-to-name-and-prosecute-trumps-minions/
https://baptistnews.com/article/trumps-attack-on-harvard-is-christian-universities-worst-nightmare/
Never heard of any of these peopleMarvin_Zindler said:
Mike Cosper, David French, Russell Moore, Beth Moore, Ray Ortlund
The 17 year bump. My high school junior wasn't born yet when this thread was started.
If I remember correctly Beth Moore was really popular amongst women Bible studies in the early 2000s.
Going back to the lawsuit, it looks like the Trinity Foundation has picked up the story.
https://trinityfi.org/investigations/a-story-of-power-deceit-and-betrayal-at-second-baptist-church-members-file-court-petition-try-to-save-churchs-legacy/
I have heard of the Trinity Foundation, but my knowledge of them is lacking. They say they have been investigating church/televangelist fraud & corruption for 30+ yrs.
The Trinity Foundation provides more insight into this Dennis Brewer Jr guy that sits on this new Ministry Leadership Team (MLT) that was set up after the bylaws were changed.
"Dennis "Denny" Brewer Jr. and his late father Dennis Brewer Sr have spent decades representing televangelists and megachurch pastors. Past and current clients of their law firms include Benny Hinn Ministries, Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Fellowship Church (pastored by Ed Young Jr), Hillsong Church and many others."
I am not fan of Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland and would find it concerning that the lawyer for those guys is involved with the church.
https://trinityfi.org/investigations/a-story-of-power-deceit-and-betrayal-at-second-baptist-church-members-file-court-petition-try-to-save-churchs-legacy/
I have heard of the Trinity Foundation, but my knowledge of them is lacking. They say they have been investigating church/televangelist fraud & corruption for 30+ yrs.
The Trinity Foundation provides more insight into this Dennis Brewer Jr guy that sits on this new Ministry Leadership Team (MLT) that was set up after the bylaws were changed.
"Dennis "Denny" Brewer Jr. and his late father Dennis Brewer Sr have spent decades representing televangelists and megachurch pastors. Past and current clients of their law firms include Benny Hinn Ministries, Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Fellowship Church (pastored by Ed Young Jr), Hillsong Church and many others."
I am not fan of Benny Hinn or Kenneth Copeland and would find it concerning that the lawyer for those guys is involved with the church.
You are better for it.....Mega Lops said:Never heard of any of these peopleMarvin_Zindler said:
Mike Cosper, David French, Russell Moore, Beth Moore, Ray Ortlund
Beth Moore had a weekly Bible study at First for quite a while. Brought in big crowds.
David French is a New York Times columnist, so, yeah. The Dispatch is better off without him. Russell Moore has lost his mind if the current state of Christianity Today is any indicator.
David French is a New York Times columnist, so, yeah. The Dispatch is better off without him. Russell Moore has lost his mind if the current state of Christianity Today is any indicator.
https://www.bizapedia.com/tx/jeremiah-counsel-corporation.htmlDiggity said:
From the end of the article:Didn't people pull up the names of the "Jeremiah Counsel" earlier in the thread?Quote:
Jeremiah Counsel has not disclosed the names of its members.
Quote:
On May 26th, 2024, Dr. H. Edwin Young stepped away from his position as Senior Pastor and appointed his son Dr. Benjamin "Ben" Young (hereafter, Pastor Ben) as the new head pastor. Dr. Ed Young told the congregation that he "was not stepping down, he was stepping up" (i.e., he was not leaving the church's covering).
The following day, Pastor Ben told his own father Dr. Young to clean out his office, that he was going to remodel it. He was also told that his ministry would no longer be needed, according to members of the Jeremiah Counsel Corporation.
The new bylaws gave Pastor Ben unrestricted control of Second Baptist, according to concerned church members. Pastor Ben, then hand-picked his new board of directors, now called a Ministry Leadership Team (MLT).
At least three different individuals have advised Trinity Foundation they were told by Dr. H. Edwin Young in private that he had made a big mistake. To one church member Dr. Young said, "I made the worst mistake of my life" and to another he said, "I really messed up."
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
The Kraken said:
To one church member Dr. Young said, "I made the worst mistake of my life" and to another he said, "I really messed up."
History is full of great leaders of public office, business enterprise and charitable endeavors who completely squandered their life's work because they could not bring themselves to objectively appraise the character/ability of their sons. Dr. Young is like the Marcus Aurelius of southern baptists.
I'm glad I'm catholic and we figured out the stealing and nepotism back in the 1400's.
The Houston Chronicle has picked up the story.
https://www.chron.com/culture/religion/article/houston-second-baptist-church-lawsuit-20294925.php
https://www.chron.com/culture/religion/article/houston-second-baptist-church-lawsuit-20294925.php
Wait, is this Ben and the new board?
That article reads like AI pulled the content straight off Texags
If true, Ben has changed in a big way since I was at Second.
It's the Chronicle and journos are lazy. There is a decent chance that actually happened.ccolley68 said:
That article reads like AI pulled the content straight off Texags
KBTX routinely finds "news topics" on the Aggieland board and makes a story out of them five days after a thread on the topic has been going there.
Chron could get better news leads from the Tine board and Grizzy's than they do on their own.
Chron could get better news leads from the Tine board and Grizzy's than they do on their own.
the irony of bashing journalists by calling them lazy yet lazily "clipping" a word in the style of a snobby Brit tabloid is not lost on me.Marvin_Zindler said:
It's the Chronicle and journos are lazy.
Marvin_Zindler said:I'm still really surprised the suit was brought by this group as opposed to induvial members of the church. From a legal perspective this seems like a standing issue that could get the case booted on plea to the jurisdiction brought by SB. If that happens, there could be some serious statute of limitations issues.H-town ag said:
The Jeremiah Group now has a website with all relevant info and docs.
https://www.jeremiahcounsel.org/
I get the feeling that the Jeremiah Group does not actually expect to win the case. They are using it as a way to publicize what has happened and people will take it seriously and not just conspiracy. If they can get a large percentage of the membership to understand what has happened and stop the cash flow into the church, the Young Group won't last long.
I have no clue what you're talking about.Mega Lops said:the irony of bashing journalists by calling them lazy yet lazily "clipping" a word in the style of a snobby Brit tabloid is not lost on me.Marvin_Zindler said:
It's the Chronicle and journos are lazy.
eeaggie11 said:Marvin_Zindler said:I'm still really surprised the suit was brought by this group as opposed to induvial members of the church. From a legal perspective this seems like a standing issue that could get the case booted on plea to the jurisdiction brought by SB. If that happens, there could be some serious statute of limitations issues.H-town ag said:
The Jeremiah Group now has a website with all relevant info and docs.
https://www.jeremiahcounsel.org/
I get the feeling that the Jeremiah Group does not actually expect to win the case. They are using it as a way to publicize what has happened and people will take it seriously and not just conspiracy. If they can get a large percentage of the membership to understand what has happened and stop the cash flow into the church, the Young Group won't last long.
You might be on to something. Looking into some of the members of the Jeremiah Group one of them, in the last 6 months ago or so, stopped reposting 2nd Baptist Facebook posts & started reposting Houston First Baptist.
I have been attending 2nd Baptist and I did not know anything about the bylaws changing & this new Ministry Leadership Team that Ben Young has put in place.
Why is that? They sit atop $1B in assets.eeaggie11 said:
If they can get a large percentage of the membership to understand what has happened and stop the cash flow into the church, the Young Group won't last long.
So, now that you know, are you going to continue going there?
Most of the assets aren't liquid. You stop the inflow of cash through tithes and the business model they have set up starts falling apart. If I remember hearing correctly, like 90% of the money coming into the church through tithes comes from like 10% of the membership.
Along with the church and campuses easily have 350+ employees.
I attend Houston's First, and we've noticed an influx of folks from Second. But it's hard to gather the scale of migration from Second.
My guess is they'll be just fine. And by fine I mean continuing to raise and make plenty of money for themselves.
you have to go back.gif
I agree actually. I just think that is what they are attempting to do. There will be a continued exodus of members but not enough to make a big enough dent. There is a possibility that at least one campus will be closed in the next few years to cut costs.
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