'03ag said:

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Not while towing. While in tow mode.

I think he's saying that because tow mode will use the generator and Electric Plus mode will not.

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This is what I gather. Tow mode is 100% generator 100% of the time, so it's the best way to determine actual gas mileage as compared to a normal ICE vehicle.

Other modes will have better "gas mileage" because they'll run in pure battery power for a certain period before having to kick on to use the generator.

There's also the battery preservation mode that I assume will accomplish the same thing.

My guess he's quoting the dodge rep from a different spot in their conversation and that's just how the answers unfolded. Like I said it'll be an unclear picture for a while.

The Kraken said:

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I wonder what the warranty on the V6 will be? Guess they will measure the miles in operation or maybe the time in operation like an aircraft engine?

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Future buying questions:

How many miles on the chassis/motors?
How many battery charge cycles?
Hours on engine?

Maybe it tracks hours in each drive mode and that would be useful.

Good overview on the Ramcharger. Still a lot unknown as no one has gotten their hands on one yet.
Pricing looks to start at $60k for the Tradesman and go up to $78k for the Tungsten trim. These are current estimates and no telling what dealer markups will be.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger

Cibalo said:

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Good overview on the Ramcharger. Still a lot unknown as no one has gotten their hands on one yet.
Pricing looks to start at $60k for the Tradesman and go up to $78k for the Tungsten trim. These are current estimates and no telling what dealer markups will be.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger

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Seems to be more reasonably priced than the Cybertruck, but I'm sure the devil is in the options. The range certainly makes it a relatively good value.

I'm interested to see how the Ram with the 3.0L HO hurricane turns out. With 520hp, if you can easily tune it to 600hp and if they'll throw the paddle shifters on the ZF 8 speed in there and some aggressive drive modes (auto, sport and track like the Challenger), it could be a lot of fun. Powerful and fun to drive in a regular size/trim truck that isn't an expensive offroad monstrosity like the TRX and Raptor R. That might be enough to get me out of a V8 daily driver for the first time in my life.

Dr. Doctor said:

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This is what I thought should be done a long time ago. Buddy and I talked about this while drinking in 2005/2006.

Diesel set to 2 speeds and electric motor for moving. Low speed is recharging battery if needed and high speed when actually traveling. Battery can recharge with you not in car, assuming you are in an open space.

Add in plug in and you can make the vehicle go really long distances.

But glad to see someone is finally doing it.

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The Chevy Volt already did this back in 2011. Unless you mean a truck implementing this type of hybrid technology.

Cibalo said:

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Good overview on the Ramcharger. Still a lot unknown as no one has gotten their hands on one yet.
Pricing looks to start at $60k for the Tradesman and go up to $78k for the Tungsten trim. These are current estimates and no telling what dealer markups will be.

https://www.caranddriver.com/ram/1500-ramcharger

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Dang. 60k for a tradesman?

So twice the price? That's hard to swallow.

Pretty great concept though...

Thermal runaway and hydrogen gas hazards

And now hydrogen fuel cells….

https://americancarsandracing.com/2023/12/05/ram-confirms-hydrogen-powered-pickup/

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

RedAnimal12 said:

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Thermal runaway and hydrogen gas hazards

And now hydrogen fuel cells….

https://americancarsandracing.com/2023/12/05/ram-confirms-hydrogen-powered-pickup/

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

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Fuel cell vehicles have been around for almost 20 years as demonstration projects. GM has long had an ongoing FC development program and I believe about 10 years ago Toyota or Nissan did a FC car pilot program in California. They let people drive the cars around for a few months to collect some real world data.
I have riden in a few fuel cell powered vehicles and while they work well under optimal conditions I think there are a ton of technical issues to be figured out. After that you still have hydrogen storage issues and infrastructure, safety, and cost.

I think any early adaptors will be in Europe and it will be a long time before we see any in the US in a number that matter.

Max Power said:

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This isn't a Ramcharger:


This is a Ramcharger:

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We had a used '86 Ramcharger in the early 90's and loved it, except for the terrible reliability of every component other than the 318 v8. Really fun to drive around and my wife used it to commute to A&M from The Woodlands for the last year of her bachelors degree. She could go take naps in the back between classes.

MaxPower said:

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I'd like to see them do this with the Wagoneer. The EV segment is missing a large family vehicle. The Cybertruck has shown how difficult it is to make a vehicle that large with high range. I suspect those vehicles are also the ones most likely to go on lengthy road trips, so the range anxiety is more justifiable, so the gas generator engine makes a lot of sense. Use battery only for daily trips to school and running errands then have the 600 miles of range on gas when you go on the road trip a few times a year for vacation. Plus that vehicle can also tow just as well as a half ton pickup for the boat crowd.

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Good observation.

The Wagoneer (and similar vehicles) are already so expensive though, this would put it out of reach for most families.

Technology like this is great, but there needs to be low-cost options for the masses, for this type of thing to catch on and improve.

Yeah, I'd imagine the changes like that to the Wagoneer would make a $70K+ vehicle a $120K+ vehicle....

There's no way this drivetrain is only going to be used in the Ram pickup though, right? I would be very excited about this in a Wagoneer...that said $100k+ for a Jeep feels like a very bad idea.

GarlandAg2012 said:

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There's no way this drivetrain is only going to be used in the Ram pickup though, right? I would be very excited about this in a Wagoneer...that said 1$00k+ for a Jeep feels like a very bad idea.

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The grand wagoneer is already north of that with a few options and it's stupid. I don't know how they can sell these large SUVs at $80K+ in any real volume. The payments are nuts, especially with today's interest rates.

2024 Grand Wagoneer starts at $92k

https://www.jeep.com/wagoneer/grand-wagoneer.html

Fair, I was aware they already easily top $100k, I guess I should have said $125k for the "ramcharger" drivetrain.

tk for tu juan said:

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2024 Grand Wagoneer starts at $92k

https://www.jeep.com/wagoneer/grand-wagoneer.html

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Flat out absurd. The $62k I paid for a '21 Tahoe is a bargain.

That's the grand wagoneer. Most here have specifically said the wagoneer which starts at like $65k.

Cibalo said:

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RedAnimal12 said:

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Thermal runaway and hydrogen gas hazards

And now hydrogen fuel cells….

https://americancarsandracing.com/2023/12/05/ram-confirms-hydrogen-powered-pickup/

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

---

Fuel cell vehicles have been around for almost 20 years as demonstration projects. GM has long had an ongoing FC development program and I believe about 10 years ago Toyota or Nissan did a FC car pilot program in California. They let people drive the cars around for a few months to collect some real world data.
I have riden in a few fuel cell powered vehicles and while they work well under optimal conditions I think there are a ton of technical issues to be figured out. After that you still have hydrogen storage issues and infrastructure, safety, and cost.

I think any early adaptors will be in Europe and it will be a long time before we see any in the US in a number that matter.

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Just saying it's new to the Ram lineup. That's all. I remember the FC of the early 00's when the first fill station in DC was going to change the country.

Cibalo said:

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RedAnimal12 said:

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Thermal runaway and hydrogen gas hazards

And now hydrogen fuel cells….

https://americancarsandracing.com/2023/12/05/ram-confirms-hydrogen-powered-pickup/

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

---

Fuel cell vehicles have been around for almost 20 years as demonstration projects. GM has long had an ongoing FC development program and I believe about 10 years ago Toyota or Nissan did a FC car pilot program in California. They let people drive the cars around for a few months to collect some real world data.
I have riden in a few fuel cell powered vehicles and while they work well under optimal conditions I think there are a ton of technical issues to be figured out. After that you still have hydrogen storage issues and infrastructure, safety, and cost.

I think any early adaptors will be in Europe and it will be a long time before we see any in the US in a number that matter.

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Hydrogen is a terrible fuel for a car, being the main challenge, whether fuel cell or ICE.

Energy density by mass (why chop off the carbon first?), need to keep chilled, pressure vessels etc. Anyway, I will again echo a poster who provided a succinct explanation as to why a couple years back;

Quote:

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Electricity is the worst way to store energy. Hydrogen is second.

A PEM electrolysis unit will give you about 20 kg of H2 per MWh. So at cheap electric prices, it theoretically could compete. But the devil is in the details.

Those pushing the H2 agenda will often brag about its energy density. It is true, that H2 is very energy dense on a mass basis. 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of H2 contains approximately the energy of 1 gallon (~8 lbs) of gasoline. Looks good, right?

But when it comes to transportation fuels and the infrastructure to move the fuels around, mass doesn't matter, volume does. This is true for storage tanks, pipelines, pumps, compressors, etc. And that is where H2 is a big loser.

At 1000psig of pressure, that 1 kg of H2 takes up almost 50 gallons of space. Even at 10,000psig, it is still going to occupy 7 gallons of space.

So, you can't compress your way to the volume energy density of gasoline (and compressing H2 is very inefficient/expensive), so you liquefy it, right? That's what some propose.

Well, liquefaction has its own challenges. The main one, of course, is how cold you have to get. We're talking 21K to liquefy H2. If you're not familiar with Kelvin, 21K equals -422F. Oh, and even when liquefied, that 1 kg of H2 is still going to occupy over 3 gallons of space.

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Yep I spent 10 years working on developing fuel cells systems. The physics don't work for automobiles. Other applications you can make a case for.

Two idiots talking about it

No real new info but at least someone put their hands on one.

Things are rough at Stellantis. They need to get this thing to market but it's been eerily quiet.

Two idiots taking a look at the chassis

'03ag said:

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Things are rough at Stellantis. They need to get this thing to market but it's been eerily quiet.

Two idiots taking a look at the chassis

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They suck at what they do and deserve to go bankrupt.

I saw they are looking at something similar in a Wrangler starting in 2028. I'd be very interested in that vehicle.

This power train has driven more traffic on our channel than anything else we've ever done. They need to get it out there on multiple platforms.

It's just so obvious, and crazy that it has taken this long.

I think the Volt scared manufacturers, combined with poorly thought out government subsidies.