CDub06 said:

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Oh, you're still here screaming about how offended you aren't? Ok my dude. We get it. We're the ones offended.

Now take a deep breath and have a good day.

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Your first post in this thread was calling somebody else sexist. Clearly you are the snowflake here.

aTmAg said:

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CDub06 said:

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Oh, you're still here screaming about how offended you aren't? Ok my dude. We get it. We're the ones offended.

Now take a deep breath and have a good day.

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Your first post in this thread was calling somebody else sexist. Clearly you are the snowflake here.

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My first post was in response to someone that had already said that her playing was sexist:

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Its such a stupid PR move. I kicked with a number of guys that never had the opportunity to play at that level, but I guarantee they're far better than her. Ridiculous. Sexism.

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I was just pointing out that guaranteeing that a man is better than a woman at a specific task, sight unseen, would actually be sexist. And his claim that letting a woman kick is sexist, probably isn't.

It was a quip and I'm sorry it sent you into a tizzy. I hope you find peace.

COOL LASER FALCON said:

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I don't know if y'all are familiar with aTmag from the entertainment board, but just a heads up that he will never change his point of view one tiny inch and will continue to argue literally forever. Even in cases where I agree with him, he is insufferable.

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I change my point of view whenever somebody makes a better argument. That is not happening anywhere in this thread.

Furlock Bones said:

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it was a sham. 100%.

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This is the only post that matters on this bonkers thread. Total PR stunt by Mason to save his job... Didn't quite work. Sadly, it'll be his "legacy" at Vandy.

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I change my point of view whenever somebody makes a better argument. That is not happening anywhere in this thread.

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I mean, I think its been said multiple times on this thread and in the Football Board thread that Vanderbilt was without 4 kickers in the middle of a pandemic during a week when the campus was closed for the week. And to be clear, Vanderbilt closed the dorms for the week and also moved to online classes only for the rest of the year.

And I think it has also been said multiple times that her kickoff landed near the sideline in an awkward spot for the return team, gave no chance for a return and would have given Vanderbilt a decent chance to recover it had Missouri bobbled it.

It seems pretty straightforward that they got a 6 foot 2 senior athlete who kicks soccer balls on the daily, who was on campus during the week, and was already going through athletic department Covid testing and she went out and executed a kick somewhat similar to what she'd do as a goalie.



Here's a brief breakdown of her kickoff making those same points and showing how the coverage team was in sync with her kick:

I'm not claiming that she meant to kick it deep and screwed it up so bad that it only went 30 yards. I think she was told to kick it in the direction she kicked. My point is that the REASON she was told that was because she couldn't kick it deep. Which BTW, makes her worthless as a kicker since they receiving team would know to expect the short kick every time. But that's not important when the goal is PR.

That it was an event speaks more to its rarity than anything else. There are real physical advantages on average between the sexes that favor XY carriers. But if her dream was to get on the field once and play like a girl, mission accomplished.

I'll note that isn't a dis. It was the sticker on the back of her helmet.

My wife and I watch our team play and we enjoy it in spite of the disappointment I felt when Title IX led to the cancellation of men's soccer while I was a current student. There are lots of stereotypes floating out there with respect to both men and women that aren't helpful.

But it still...so far...is a free country. We can have a republic if we can keep it!!!

She's a student athlete with the skillset, had adhered to the covid protocols and was able to step in. Simultaneously, she provided a nice little story and maybe inspired a few kids.

Can you please explain why this has been so upsetting to you?

aTmAg said:

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I'm not claiming that she meant to kick it deep and screwed it up so bad that it only went 30 yards. I think she was told to kick it in the direction she kicked. My point is that the REASON she was told that was because she couldn't kick it deep. Which BTW, makes her worthless as a kicker since they receiving team would know to expect the short kick every time. But that's not important when the goal is PR.

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You have a source that it was designed because she couldn't kick it? We have video of her kicking it pretty far.

Coach said it was designed to prevent return, not because of her leg.

You sound like you either have a source, or more likely, just making things up to fit your perspective.

Sorry that a girl kicking bothers you so much.

No, we don't have video of her kicking pretty far. We have video of her kicking weak kicks that any decent high school kicker could easily do. And of course no coach interested in PR would go on record admitting that she can't kick hard. The context clues should make it obvious to you.

They obviously didn't want a return and probably would have loved a chance to recover a bobbled football.

Deeper squib kicks get returned all the time and lower the chance for recovery. She kicked the ball exactly where it appears they wanted her to kick it, they weren't able to return it, and it made for an awkward situation for the Missouri player. Job done.

We have video of her kicking 25 yard field goals and the ball landing pretty high up on the All State Good Hands net which was at least 10 yards behind the goalposts. She says she made a 38 yard field goal. She certainly could have booted the ball further down the field than she did on the kickoff.

aTmAg said:

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Nearly, the length of the field? That SEC logo was at midfield. That's like kicking a goal kick to midfield. Happens all the time.

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Oh man, you're so close to getting it.

Dre_00 said:

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aTmAg said:

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Nearly, the length of the field? That SEC logo was at midfield. That's like kicking a goal kick to midfield. Happens all the time.

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Oh man, you're so close to getting it.

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Getting what? That she can't kick nearly as hard as a male kicker?

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aTmAg said:

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No, we don't have video of her kicking pretty far. We have video of her kicking weak kicks that any decent high school kicker could easily do. And of course no coach interested in PR would go on record admitting that she can't kick hard. The context clues should make it obvious to you.

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Is there a particular reason you are so invested in this?

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I hate what the SJW movement has done to our society?

Hey aTm, here's another event you may have missed. Can you imagine how many uber qualified men refs were put out of work so she could have this PR moment? You need to make sure your daughter knows this is above the glass ceiling and beyond her allowable dreams.

I think the point here is that she's qualified to be out there through all the training and certification and years of other matches. Vandy just through a girl out there.

aTmAg said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aTmAg said:

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No, we don't have video of her kicking pretty far. We have video of her kicking weak kicks that any decent high school kicker could easily do. And of course no coach interested in PR would go on record admitting that she can't kick hard. The context clues should make it obvious to you.

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Is there a particular reason you are so invested in this?

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I hate what the SJW movement has done to our society?

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Or you're projecting your own ****ty views of the world. Drink a glass of milk and ****ing relax.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Just my individual sense of this...

If those who are really mad about this would stop talking about it, I think "society" would have already noted it as a interesting little moment, and then gone back to whatever it was doing before.

Maybe if she does something against Georgia, it flares up again for a few days before becoming another historical footnote.

In other words, it seems to me that those who don't want this to be a thing are making this into a much bigger, more lasting story than it otherwise would have been.

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You're not wrong, but the reason they can't let it die is because this gave them the ammo they needed to push back against gender equality more generally. I was probably wrong about Vanderbilt's depth chart in my comment on Page 1, but otherwise, I'll stand by comments that this event may prove to do a disservice to the cause of women's rights.

If you care about equity, this was simply not the arena to make a strong push. People who paraded this as a glass ceiling shattering moment gave misogynists exactly what they wanted and they're all doubling-down.

There are countless things that women have been excluded from historically where there's no fundamental difference and it's shameful that people continue to exclude them. But there are also biological realities (muscle mass, chiefly) which make sports a poor choice to try and fight the patriarchy... the biological realities are literally how the patriarchy got power eons ago when the world was harsh and people won arguments by killing each other.

I won't argue whether Vandy needed to do this or not, but man - the messaging surrounding it was very poor.

Maybe I'm wrong and this discussion will move some people towards some common ground. But given the nature of media consumption, where we all have our favorite outlets that tell us exactly what we want to hear, I'm not optimistic.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Just my individual sense of this...

If those who are really mad about this would stop talking about it, I think "society" would have already noted it as a interesting little moment, and then gone back to whatever it was doing before.

Maybe if she does something against Georgia, it flares up again for a few days before becoming another historical footnote.

In other words, it seems to me that those who don't want this to be a thing are making this into a much bigger, more lasting story than it otherwise would have been.

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You think ESPN cares at all what people on TexAgs are talking about? There are maybe 20 people total who have read this thread. We aren't the reason this is not a laughable footnote, it's the SJWs likes those at ESPN who push it down our throats as a "glass shattering" that make it so.

DuncanField91 said:

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Hey aTm, here's another event you may have missed. Can you imagine how many uber qualified men refs were put out of work so she could have this PR moment? You need to make sure your daughter knows this is above the glass ceiling and beyond her allowable dreams.

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I thought they had women refs for a long time. I've seen plenty of videos of that smoking hot one faking out a player with a fake card. I see no reason why a woman would not be qualified to be a ref and have never complained about it. If one supplanted other more qualified ones because of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. then that would be racist, sexist, etc. That would be a problem.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aTmAg said:

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Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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aTmAg said:

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No, we don't have video of her kicking pretty far. We have video of her kicking weak kicks that any decent high school kicker could easily do. And of course no coach interested in PR would go on record admitting that she can't kick hard. The context clues should make it obvious to you.

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Is there a particular reason you are so invested in this?

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I hate what the SJW movement has done to our society?

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Or you're projecting your own ****ty views of the world. Drink a glass of milk and ****ing relax.

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Nope.. the ****ty views are those by racists and sexists who put race and gender above more important factors such as qualifications, content of character, etc.

aTmAg said:

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It is sexism to select somebody for a job BECAUSE of their gender. Which is exactly what happened. If Fuller was not a woman, she would have never been considered. That poster called the decision sexist, and backed him/her self up with reasoning. You, on the other hand, called the poster themselves sexist simply because you disagreed with the post.

It's the difference between somebody saying "affirmative action is racist" and you replying with "no you are racist for saying that!!!"

That is practically the definition of a tizzy.

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Hey genius: do you know what the SEC athletics COVID rules actually are?

Everyone tests twice a week. If somebody infected has close contact with others, then they can be considered high risk and have to quarantine for 14 days... if enough people have close contact then games will be canceled as we've seen. If those are the rules, a team would be nuts to hold open tryouts and I'm not sure it's so great to have position players kicking the ball and risking injury thru movements hey basically never do daily... super risky. So those are your risks.

It's not a huge stretch that a coach on short notice would go to a program who's season is over but players are still frequently tested and presumably in a bubble and ask them to join on an emergency basis. It's way less risky than the alternatives and I'd argue the smartest first port of call vs the alternatives.

So that's probably your Occam's Razor and not this secret PR meeting you think Derek Mason had with whoever.

ATM9000 said:

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aTmAg said:

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It is sexism to select somebody for a job BECAUSE of their gender. Which is exactly what happened. If Fuller was not a woman, she would have never been considered. That poster called the decision sexist, and backed him/her self up with reasoning. You, on the other hand, called the poster themselves sexist simply because you disagreed with the post.

It's the difference between somebody saying "affirmative action is racist" and you replying with "no you are racist for saying that!!!"

That is practically the definition of a tizzy.

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Hey genius: do you know what the SEC athletics COVID rules actually are?

Everyone tests twice a week. If somebody infected has close contact with others, then they can be considered high risk and have to quarantine for 14 days... if enough people have close contact then games will be canceled as we've seen. If those are the rules, a team would be nuts to hold open tryouts and I'm not sure it's so great to have position players kicking the ball and risking injury thru movements hey basically never do daily... super risky. So those are your risks.

It's not a huge stretch that a coach on short notice would go to a program who's season is over but players are still frequently tested and presumably in a bubble and ask them to join on an emergency basis. It's way less risky than the alternatives and I'd argue the smartest first port of call vs the alternatives.

So that's probably your Occam's Razor and not this secret PR meeting you think Derek Mason had with whoever.

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Hey genius, there is a thing called an internal team tryout. They had as punter who could likely kick much better than her. Yet they never even gave him a chance. Why? That's not as good off a PR story.

aTmAg said:

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ATM9000 said:

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aTmAg said:

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It is sexism to select somebody for a job BECAUSE of their gender. Which is exactly what happened. If Fuller was not a woman, she would have never been considered. That poster called the decision sexist, and backed him/her self up with reasoning. You, on the other hand, called the poster themselves sexist simply because you disagreed with the post.

It's the difference between somebody saying "affirmative action is racist" and you replying with "no you are racist for saying that!!!"

That is practically the definition of a tizzy.

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Hey genius: do you know what the SEC athletics COVID rules actually are?

Everyone tests twice a week. If somebody infected has close contact with others, then they can be considered high risk and have to quarantine for 14 days... if enough people have close contact then games will be canceled as we've seen. If those are the rules, a team would be nuts to hold open tryouts and I'm not sure it's so great to have position players kicking the ball and risking injury thru movements hey basically never do daily... super risky. So those are your risks.

It's not a huge stretch that a coach on short notice would go to a program who's season is over but players are still frequently tested and presumably in a bubble and ask them to join on an emergency basis. It's way less risky than the alternatives and I'd argue the smartest first port of call vs the alternatives.

So that's probably your Occam's Razor and not this secret PR meeting you think Derek Mason had with whoever.

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Hey genius, there is a thing called an internal team tryout. They had as punter who could likely kick much better than her. Yet they never even gave him a chance. Why? That's not as good off a PR story.

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Well...early brief Google searches indicate that the punter didn't placekick in high school. You combine that with the fact Vandy had like 3 kickers on the team, it isn't a stretch to say the punter has taken very few if no place kicking reps in his career. So I dunno... maybe he didn't kickoff because he wasn't as good at it?

Under normal circumstances, yeah I agree it would be odd if they didn't do an open tryout to the student body and just had a girl kick. But these aren't normal circumstances. The Vandy roster is depleted enough from COVID that they aren't playing this week so you know this had to be a concern last week too. I don't see this as some Jackie Robinson story or whatever but more of one to how COVID is making for really extraordinary circumstances.

But again... if you want to apply Occam's Razor in 2020, then it's way more conceivable to believe Vandy was just really hard up for a kicker rather than Derek Mason was attempting to save his job or season or whatever through some underground PR coups.

littlebitofhifi said:

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Real curious to see where the punter was "not given a chance". Vanderbilt acknowledged that there were no place kickers available and that Smith (the punter) wasn't an option on PATs or field goals because then they'd also have to find a replacement holder. Makes sense that he hasn't worked out as a place kicker anymore than Fuller has.

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I was an emergency replacement holder once. It's not hard. They just had me, the snapper, and kicker do kicks after practice. The idea that they HAD to have the punter be the holder is ridiculous. And still, none of your excuses explain why she kicked the kickoff. Even if we pretend/assume she was more accurate on field goals, then she should have been on the ready for those.. but nope.. they sucked so bad they never got close enough for that. So what to do? Well they had to have her do SOMETHING so that they could take PR credit. So she kicked the kickoff to "make history".

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Anyways, this MASSIVE PR story has already died in the national news but one lone texager who claims to not actually care about it has kept this alive an extra week.

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I'm not wishing that the story would "die". I don't care. My goal is to point out that SJWs are idiots and this is just one of many examples. It makes sense that an idiot coach who would go 0-8 would also do this. Idiots do idiotic things. And, BTW, up until the game with Georgia was postponed, I was still getting pushed updates about Fuller. Now the top Vandy story is about how the game was cancelled, but the #2 story is lamenting about how the firing of Mason reduces the number of black coaches to an even more unacceptable number. SJWs never miss an opportunity to SJW. They need to be called out for their stupidity and racism/sexim at every opportunity.

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It was great for young kids (and some adults like me) to see a woman do something that hasn't been done before and every tiny bit of representation means something to someone. Would be nice to just give a nod and move along but alas.

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It was not "great". What would have been great is if she actually earned it. In fact, I think this set women back. Now the Fuller charity case overshadows previous women who (likely legitimately) made rosters. There is nothing worthy of a "nod" here. Just a shaking of the head.

ATM9000 said:

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aTmAg said:

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ATM9000 said:

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aTmAg said:

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It is sexism to select somebody for a job BECAUSE of their gender. Which is exactly what happened. If Fuller was not a woman, she would have never been considered. That poster called the decision sexist, and backed him/her self up with reasoning. You, on the other hand, called the poster themselves sexist simply because you disagreed with the post.

It's the difference between somebody saying "affirmative action is racist" and you replying with "no you are racist for saying that!!!"

That is practically the definition of a tizzy.

---

Hey genius: do you know what the SEC athletics COVID rules actually are?

Everyone tests twice a week. If somebody infected has close contact with others, then they can be considered high risk and have to quarantine for 14 days... if enough people have close contact then games will be canceled as we've seen. If those are the rules, a team would be nuts to hold open tryouts and I'm not sure it's so great to have position players kicking the ball and risking injury thru movements hey basically never do daily... super risky. So those are your risks.

It's not a huge stretch that a coach on short notice would go to a program who's season is over but players are still frequently tested and presumably in a bubble and ask them to join on an emergency basis. It's way less risky than the alternatives and I'd argue the smartest first port of call vs the alternatives.

So that's probably your Occam's Razor and not this secret PR meeting you think Derek Mason had with whoever.

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Hey genius, there is a thing called an internal team tryout. They had as punter who could likely kick much better than her. Yet they never even gave him a chance. Why? That's not as good off a PR story.

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Well...early brief Google searches indicate that the punter didn't placekick in high school. You combine that with the fact Vandy had like 3 kickers on the team, it isn't a stretch to say the punter has taken very few if no place kicking reps in his career. So I dunno... maybe he didn't kickoff because he wasn't as good at it?

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That is like saying that a since a soccer forward hasn't punted a soccer ball in a game during their career, that they probably wouldn't be able to punt one better than somebody from another sport. This is laughable. I'd be willing to bet that that punter has kicked more field goals on the side and just playing around than Fuller will in kick in her entire lifetime. And he would especially be better at doing kickoffs where accuracy is not important and that 90% of the time you want to blast it out of the back of the end zone. You'd have to be as naive as a toddler to think that they REALLY wanted to do a crappy lobbed "squib" kick and felt that she could pull that off better than he could.

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Under normal circumstances, yeah I agree it would be odd if they didn't do an open tryout to the student body and just had a girl kick. But these aren't normal circumstances. The Vandy roster is depleted enough from COVID that they aren't playing this week so you know this had to be a concern last week too. I don't see this as some Jackie Robinson story or whatever but more of one to how COVID is making for really extraordinary circumstances.

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Well the press was throwing out terms like "ground breaking" and crap like that. Rather than what it was.. "Vandy sucks, the season is blown, the coach is getting fired, so let's let a girl kick one just so we can say a girl kicked one."

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But again... if you want to apply Occam's Razor in 2020, then it's way more conceivable to believe Vandy was just really hard up for a kicker rather than Derek Mason was attempting to save his job or season or whatever through some underground PR coups.

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Nope. If that were the case, then they would have had team tryouts, the punter would have easily won the kickoff job and probably would have won the FG job too, unless he was inaccurate. Even if she were to win the FG job, then she wouldn't have stepped on the field that game because the offense couldn't get them close enough. She would have been their female version of E King Gill. Instead, there was no team tryout, the coach had her at suited up on the sidelines in practice before she had taken a single kick. He even had the audacity to have her give a halftime pep talk. Brain-dead moves like that are exactly why he went 0-8 and is unemployed right now. Nope.. Occam's razor is on my side on this one.

Any time a "protected class" is gifted an opportunity, either through kindness or fiat, it harms the advancement of that protected class, creating the need for even more "gifts." It's a lot like people not knowing that trying to wipe out jihadists creates more jihadists. I can't believe this isn't obvious, but for those of you who don't know:

1. The person who gets the gift knows it was not merit-based, so it actually hurts their confidence.
2. The people around that person, or in competition with them, know it was not merit-based, so it fosters pity or resentment from them.
3. The person who gets the gift knows the rest of the people who observe it knows it was not merit-based, so it further hurts their confidence and harms the relationships they have with their peers.
4. The entire protected class loses confidence because that gift creates "evidence" that the protected class isn't really capable of performing on a level playing field.