Aston94 said:

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I think this is USSF calling the USWNT union's bluff. "Okay, you want equal pay, here is what it looks like."

Problem is that all their guaranteed money would go away, and the payouts to the WSL. They don't really want equal pay to the men, because truth is they were doing well under the old agreement.

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What's crazy is that USSF made that offer previously and the USWNT union declined.

The real problem that the women have is that FIFA won't give them what they want, so they're using USSF as a sort of whipping boy intermediary. What they actually want is for FIFA to allocate more World Cup money to the women because.....? Reasons? (they want more money just because). FIFA is happy to sit in their Dr. Strangelove-esque executive meeting room and laugh maniacally at the request.

So the USWNT runs a legal/media/political campaign against the USSF. The USSF can only do what it can do.

PatAg said:

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I feel like this is the USSF wanting to bring more light to the fact that the WNT has a ridiculous contract in comparison to the men, and have no interest in sacrificing it.

It was wrong that they were being given lesser travel arrangements, and per diem, and things of that nature. That was rightfully made equal.

Once the men have gone through qualifying and the World Cup, the women wont be able to cherry pick viewing/revenue data to intentionally mislead people as well.

TLDR, both groups should get equal travel arrangements and quality of life while playing for the national team. Everything else should be based on what revenue their respective sports generate.

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Agreed.

The problem is explaining it isn't a sound bite.

Saying equal pay is.

If you think about it, this would be like League One demanding the same things as the Premier League.

Agthatbuilds said:

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Update: https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usaw/story/4475503/us-soccer-offers-menswomens-teams-identical-contract-proposals

Quote:

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The U.S. Soccer Federation announced on Tuesday that it has offered the respective players' unions for the U.S. women's national team and the U.S. men's side identical proposals for a new collective bargaining agreement.

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Quote:

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More critically, the USSF said in its statement that it will not agree to a CBA with either union that doesn't "take the important step of equalizing FIFA World Cup prize money." That issue has been a sticking point with players on the USWNT, 28 of which are currently engaged in a lawsuit alleging gender discrimination over violations of the Equal Pay Act.

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Quote:

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There is also skepticism about the USSF's motives in pushing for a single CBA. One source, who requested anonymity due to the sensitive state of the talks, stated that the FIFA bonus money issue was being "used as a weapon" against the men's union to make the USSF look like "the good guy."

"The way they want to solve the women's problem is not by increasing the women's income fairly," the source said. "It's by cutting [the men's CBA] down to the [women's] 2017 to 2021 deal numbers."

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It seems the ussf is willing to sacrifice the usmnt to the alter of progressive ideology and very illogical and shallow arguments by the uswnt

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That "source" has an axe to grind as he/she put out such a ridiculous statement.

Mathguy64 said:

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If they get paid more money it won't exactly solve a problem the WNT has and it's a big problem. Because their primary pay and benefits are derived from being on the WNT, the players aren't really competing for the spots. It's not until someone "retires" that a spot opens. As a result the age goes up and the team stagnates. Arguably higher pay would make it less likely that aging players would rotate out.

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this. the women, the USSF and Nike all have an interest in keeping the same players on the squad. in the men's game, are their players that get left off at times in favor of big names. yep. but, i would be dollars to donuts that it doesn't happen nearly as often it does with the USWNT.

Kevin the 3-legged dog said:

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PatAg said:

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I feel like this is the USSF wanting to bring more light to the fact that the WNT has a ridiculous contract in comparison to the men, and have no interest in sacrificing it.

It was wrong that they were being given lesser travel arrangements, and per diem, and things of that nature. That was rightfully made equal.

Once the men have gone through qualifying and the World Cup, the women wont be able to cherry pick viewing/revenue data to intentionally mislead people as well.

TLDR, both groups should get equal travel arrangements and quality of life while playing for the national team. Everything else should be based on what revenue their respective sports generate.

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Agreed.

The problem is explaining it isn't a sound bite.

Saying equal pay is.

If you think about it, this would be like League One demanding the same things as the Premier League.

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More like the Isthmian League.

I wonder if they presented a deal similar to this:

Per diem
Reimbursement
Insurance
Endorsement money
Pay while on national team
A set % of their respective team's prize money- say 1%

That means every player gets 1% of their teams prize money. Ussf could then blame fifa for the prize money differences.

Agthatbuilds said:

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I wonder if they presented a deal similar to this:

Per diem
Reimbursement
Insurance
Endorsement money
Pay while on national team
A set % of their respective team's prize money- say 1%

That means every player gets 1% of their teams prize money. Ussf could then blame fifa for the prize money differences.

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They wouldn't agree to that. They want the same pay for inferior work.

I know they wouldn't. But, I dont suppose the men would agree to less bonus money either.

Point being, ussf gave the women what they wanted- an equal contract which is actually a worse deal. By doing so, the could push the blame for the unequal pay to fifa.

I get the complaint of the USWNT. The job description of a national team player is genderless. If its the same job it should be the same pay. Thats their argument and I get it. But the pay is derived by fees generated by gates and bonus monies for winning events and they cant be paid what they dont generate. If they dont like that either tell USSF to raise ticket prices and tell FIFA to pay all women's teams more for tourneys.

I recall the women asking for and receiving benefits the men don't get like child care coverage via nanny/family assistance stipends. But do the women ever play in venues like Estadio Cuscatln and Estadio Olimpico Metropolitano? Would they take their kids to San Pedro Sula and San Salvador?

Mathguy64 said:

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I get the complaint of the USWNT. The job description of a national team player is genderless. If its the same job it should be the same pay. Thats their argument and I get it. But the pay is derived by fees generated by gates and bonus monies for winning events and they cant be paid what they dont generate. If they dont like that either tell USSF to raise ticket prices and tell FIFA to pay all women's teams more for tourneys.

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They chose a different comp plan. Chose.

really google?

Mathguy64 said:

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I get the complaint of the USWNT. The job description of a national team player is genderless. If its the same job it should be the same pay.

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By definition it is not genderless, you have a men's team and a women's team. There is inherent gender in the name of the teams.

Now if the women really want equality and want one national team they can try out for then good luck. But they were given a special class designation, one that men cannot be a part of.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4475848/uswnt-players-association-us-soccers-identical-deals-proposal-is-a-pr-stunt

Of course

Quote:

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The United States Women's National Team Players Association (USWNTPA) on Wednesday labeled the U.S. Soccer Federation's offer of identical contract proposals for both the men's and women's teams as nothing more than a publicity stunt.

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A lot of arguments on this bring up revenue, but is the USSF obliged to consider the differences there when it comes to compensation? Basically, is the Fed a for-profit agency or not?

Mathguy64 said:

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I get the complaint of the USWNT. The job description of a national team player is genderless. If its the same job it should be the same pay. Thats their argument and I get it. But the pay is derived by fees generated by gates and bonus monies for winning events and they cant be paid what they dont generate. If they dont like that either tell USSF to raise ticket prices and tell FIFA to pay all women's teams more for tourneys.

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That would mean there is no USWNT and USMNT. There would just be one team if it was truly genderless. They are different jobs.

It's not like accountants, engineers, architects etc.

Damn, you're one pretentious kid. Your post is full of failure, and dripping with arrogance...

tysker said:

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I recall the women asking for and receiving benefits the men don't get like child care coverage via nanny/family assistance stipends. But do the women ever play in venues like Estadio Cuscatln and Estadio Olimpico Metropolitano? Would they take their kids to San Pedro Sula and San Salvador?

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Yeah - if the USMNT qualified for the WC like the women did which is a gold cup like tournament on nice stadiums and grass in the US, they'd make it each time.

For equal pay, there has to be equal work which there isn't.

Mathguy64 said:

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tell FIFA to pay all women's teams more for tourneys.

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This is the crux of all of this. USWNT has no leverage against FIFA and FIFA allocates money based on what it can sell. WWC generates $x for TV rights, etc. WC generates substantially more. FIFA allocates how they see fit.

What the USWNT is ultimately agitating for is to have US employment and discrimination laws applied to a body that can't be forced to adhere to that nonsense. And the other real problem is that if they try on their own behalf, FIFA will simply maneuver to screw them over as much as possible.

Bunk Moreland said:

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https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states-usa/story/4475848/uswnt-players-association-us-soccers-identical-deals-proposal-is-a-pr-stunt

Of course

Quote:

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The United States Women's National Team Players Association (USWNTPA) on Wednesday labeled the U.S. Soccer Federation's offer of identical contract proposals for both the men's and women's teams as nothing more than a publicity stunt.

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Confirms to me they got offered the same % of bonus payments that their team earns from bonuses.

All the insurance, salary, and other specialized benefits were probably left out.


A usmnt player is simply worth more than a uswnt player. Their time is literally more valuable based on the salaries they get paid by their club teams.

Am I understanding this right, in terms of what the USWNT wants?

1) To keep their current set up, unlike the USMNT, in terms of the USWNT being their primary job/primary income with benefits.

2) Have the USSF take all the money earned by both the USWNT and USMNT for the various international competitions they compete in... and then divide it equally between USWNT and USMNT players without regard to which team/competition generated that revenue or how FIFA disbursed it.

In regard to #1 they don't want the same terms as the men because they would get a lot less money, less job security, and fewer benefits.

In regard to #2 they want the USSF to redistribute FIFA payments "equally" to all USMNT and USWNT players a la straightforward socialism... so that they can get big cut of the money made by the World Cup (men's) tournament since their World Cup doesn't bring in nearly as much money.

I wish FIFA did a better job of determining World Cup revenue. As of right now, I believe it's unknown what the difference is. The numbers quoted awhile back ended up being wrong from what I've read recently.

In the WC revenue, all qualifying revenue should be included as well.

And drain support for the men's team as lesser capable men sign up. Which backfires if it's all younger men with international experience. But we fired that coach…

I couldn't care less about their flag whatever.

But this idiocy makes me lose respect for them.

gambochaman said:

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This is freaking ridiculous and pathetic

Now equal pay is not equal pay….WTF IS IT THAT THEY WANT


they want to have their cake and eat it too….they want to
Keep their cushy salaried and benefits deal and at the same time take mens world cup money too (WHICH THEY DIDNT EARN IN THE FIRST PLACE)

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Yep, you summed it up perfectly.

Women are driven by emotions, not by logic. I'd imagine there are some on the USWNT that are filled with nothing except "yeah, BUT..." when confronted on their absurd demands with reason and facts.

They have completely lost me as a fan. I actually want them to lose every game they play from now on...

They'd be doomed. In the 5 or so times I've watched the USWNT live, the #1 ticket seller is young girls club teams. That works easily with cheap tickets. I don't see parents dropping the same cash if tickets are priced the same as the men. Hell I think the reason it seems the men's games don't sell out is due to ticket costs