jeffk said:

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This is dumb. Officiating soccer and football aren't comparable.

Taking some heat for comments on officials in the HSSOA & okay with it.

I’ll leave you with this, how many times have you ever seen a TX HS Football Officiating Crew walk out of a game after not the fans, but being proven wrong from a coach on a rule?

Only in soccer! Do better.

— Lethal Enforcer Texas HS Soccer (@LethalSoccer) January 15, 2022

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I guarantee you this person still won't ever understand how they're a major part of the problem. Some people just can't see how toxic they truly are. I guess it doesn't help when you have enablers not holding them accountable.

I don't agree with the tone of his tweet but he's right, you don't walk off. Give the card and move on instead of acting like a crybaby.

It's a stupid comparison. Officiating the two sports are drastically different.

Curious about the drop ball that started this. Was it after an injury or the ball hit the ref? There is such a difference in knowledge game to game with refs. We were in the woodlands tournament and a ref told us our forward couldn't enter the box on a goal kick till the 2nd person touched the ball. Also the knowledge of coaches as well. Same game the other coach tried to say our forward couldn't stand inside the arc for a goal kick.

Most definitely. Every coach and official has to read up and take refreshers every year, but you still can't ensure that everyone's really paying attention.

Agreed. It's fun as a coach when you have a ref that is willing to talk to you and allow you to talk to them. You might not agree all the time but when they are able to explain what they saw and you can explain what you saw even if you don't agree every time it still makes it better for the game.

And a lot of the coach-official conflicts is just a ego-driven pissing matches. So a drop ball restart is bungled? Coach gets upset, ref gets upset. Both refuse to let it go and let the game move on things just snowball. Can't undo what's been done, but you can refuse to let it screw up the rest of the game.

That's why I'm curious how messed up a dropped ball can be to make a game get abandoned.

Correct. The only similarity is that you don't quit mid game.

I believe it was after an injury but I'm unsure. I believe the coach thought the drop ball could be contested and the refs said it couldn't be. There was a rule change a year ago, so that's probably the confusion.

Crazy. Just out of curiosity is there an app or what's the easiest website to look up rules for high school? I feel like I have a good grasp but things always come up. Thanks

There are no contested dropped balls. If the coach wanted one and had a rule book they would have known that. It's plainly laid out.

I'll say this. A coach pulling out a rule book to show a ref during a match is risking more than a yellow card. It's blatant dissent. Whether they are right or wrong. That's not the way to go about making your point.

And a dropped ball? Really? That's the hill you want to die on?

I'm not defending walking off over this. But it takes two to tango.

As a coach you would never want a contested drop ball. So many chances for an unjury. Even when there were I always told my players either to back off or play it out of bounds for the other team to have a throw in. A contested drop ball doesn't make since ever.

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I'll say this. A coach pulling out a rule book to show a ref during a match is risking more than a yellow card. It's blatant dissent. Whether they are right or wrong. That's not the way to go about making your point.

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Is this what happened? If so, why is that a problem?

If a coach is told to stop arguing a call or to drop it and continues to press on the issue, it is dissent and could be carded. It's distracting from the game and creates a pretty hostile tone that can become contagious among the players. I don't think abandoning the game wasn't the correct move - but if the coach was coming out with a rule book at halftime after being told to let a call go, they should have at least been shown a card.

I used to ref but got busy with career and family.

Why are these refs engaged with hot-headed coaches anyway? Whether you make a bad call or not, the game goes on. You should be on the pitch officiating the game. Keep the game moving.

If coach chases you on the field, instant red card and send the coach off the property.

If coach keeps yelling at you, stop the game and give him a yellow card. That will stop 90% of the nonsense. If not, send him off the property.

If the coach is trying to speak to you at halftime, keep walking. If he follows, tell him conversation is over and send him back to his team. If he persists, ring him up.

Refs take as much crap as they allow. And most of the coaches will continue to push you until you push back.

All I have to say is coming at me at HT with a rule/law book in your hand is going to get you rung up. We all make mistakes both of fact and in Law. It happens. Make your point and move on. If it's a protestable error like pulling a Graham Poll protest the match. In HS scratch me later. Whatever. All that book is going to do is get you a card before you get within 10 feet of me and if you keep coming you risk going to the bus.

I'll finish that game way before you will.

That sounds reasonable and I think everyone here agrees with that. Those two refs that walked off should not be able to ref for quite some time though, right? At least only allow them to be ARs for the rest of the year.

Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of coaches scratch them. I also wonder what questions are being asked of the coach. There has to be a written report from the crew and who knows what they claim the coach did or said. They could be in as much hot water with UIL as the crew. Maybe more.

Did the coach walk out with the rule book?

You were there. Didn't you see what happened?

The person I spoke with indicated that to be the case. Whether it was paper or electronic I do not know.

Mathguy64 said:

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You were there. Didn't you see what happened?

The person I spoke with indicated that to be the case. Whether it was paper or electronic I do not know.

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I didn't see anything in the coaches hand.

Honest question. If a coach felt they got screwed on a call during the first half, based on a rule that was recently changed. Then how should they handle it?

If the coach was nice and approached the refs kindly, maybe something like "Hey guys. I know we didn't see eye to eye on that call, so I made sure to look it up, and I just want to make sure we're on the same page for the second half so I know how to approach things." You would ring the coach up for that?

Just theoretically it doesn't sound like such a horrible thing. A dropped ball doesn't seem like a game deciding misunderstanding, but let's say it was something that could potentially decide a game. Should the coach just eat it and cross their fingers the refs don't screw them again in the second? Instead of honest and open discussion?

I am a church mouse at my daughters games and HATE loud parents, but if it was truly a disagreement on what the rule was, why is it so bad to confer with them at halftime and try to get on the same page?

I guess it also seems fine to me because my two younger sons play in a basketball league where the rules differ by age (when you can press, can you double team, can you play zone, etc.) and numerous times we have had refs working multiple games and they will make an errant call and be informed of it. They will simply stop play and even go to the scorers table to consult the rule book to figure things out. "Oh wait? This is a fifth grade game? Oh yeah then they can press. My bad." And on the game goes.

Of course it all comes down to tone and intent when approaching things.

I don't mind discussing rules with coaches and players and I've had some solid conversations with officials when I was coaching as well. It's all about tone and intention. Like you said, if it's a "help me understand" or "let's get on the same page" thing and done calmly (and not prohibiting me from officiating the rest of the game) it's not a big deal. Typically, what gets coaches in trouble is abusive language or just not dropping an issue when told to do so.

jeffk said:

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I don't mind discussing rules with coaches and players and I've had some solid conversations with officials when I was coaching as well. It's all about tone and intention. Like you said, if it's a "help me understand" or "let's get on the same page" thing and done calmly (and not prohibiting me from officiating the rest of the game) it's not a big deal. Typically, what gets coaches in trouble is abusive language or just not dropping an issue when told to do so.

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No doubt. But walking off the field doesn't seem like a reasonable response.

Haha, yeah I think we've pretty well reached consensus that abandoning a game without showing any cards is bad practice.

jeffk said:

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Haha, yeah I think we've pretty well reached consensus that abandoning a game without showing any cards is bad practice.

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Am I correct in saying that a drop ball may not be contested? I'm most situations, an opposing player must be four yards from the drop to the other team?

Yes. Or farther if it's dropped to the GK.

Ghost of Andrew Eaton said:

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That sounds reasonable and I think everyone here agrees with that. Those two refs that walked off should not be able to ref for quite some time though, right? At least only allow them to be ARs for the rest of the year.

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You'd like some form of punishment, but the reality is that the referees will be re-assigned to other games without a conflict. The shortage of refs in HS soccer in the urban areas probably means there are a bunch of duals scheduled this time of year and hardly any 3-man crews. If someone gets sick (Covid anyone?) or injured or gets into a car accident hurrying to a game across town after working all day long, then there's only 1 ref assigned to that game now. Running a dual-system with a supposed-to-be suspended referee is better than having one person running a U17/U18 game.

Yeah, they'll probably still get assigned games, but they may not be happy with the crap games they're sent to. Especially if they get scratched by enough coaches in the area. Probably won't get asked back to that tournament (which is a big one) or get playoff assignments either.

That doesn't really matter cuz the pay is the same for all of these games. If they're good enough referees, the assignor will know them and it won't hurt their assignments that way either.

I could possibly affect playoff assignments. I know the Houston rep and some State reps pretty well, but we're talking 3 rounds deep into the playoff before a good ref will have any repercussions.

I'm not saying there aren't consequences, but the consequences are relative to the ability of the referee, the "salt" of the assignor, and the overall need for referees on any given game night.

For example, these referees could be "suspended" from HS games for a weekend. But if the referees are already blocked off from the next weekend, then there's no loss. And one of those weekend days is a Sunday, which HS teams don't play on anyway. Any suspension might hurt the referees pride, but not the pockets. What should happen and what will happen are two different things in this scenario.

You're right, it'll definitely depend heavily on who the assigner is and what their relationship with him/her is. But as a ref, it absolutely matters to me what games I get assigned. Sure pay is the same, but travel distance and quality of game is still important.

If there was an ample supply of officials, these guys might get cut loose completely, but yeah, odds are they won't face *serious* consequences.

Thought I'd bump this thread.

We were in Austin this weekend to play Lonestar, only had one linesman each game, and our Sunday game was a bit crazy. We played this team in the State Cup last year and their parents were very mouthy. To the point where Lonestar sent another coach over to stand at midfield on the parents side. I remember a parent noticed and was like "Hey coach! Why are you over here?" "They told me to come stand here." "Why?" Oh I don't know because you've been berating the ref about everything but the weather?

Yesterday they were mouthy again but this time so were their girls. I'm used to parents being loud and even coaches if they think the ref is bad, but I've never seen girls like this.

"That's a handball again! What the hell!!!!"

"That's a foul! Blow the whistle ref!!!"

"Call something! Ref this is ridiculous!!!!"

"Oh great, so you're going to call that but not the one down there? You're terrible!!!"

The ref finally lost it a bit at the end when they had a goal kick but the goalie mouthed off that there should have been a foul. The goal kick was the better option for her team but she wouldn't shut up so the ref said "Fine! What do you want? The foul or the goal kick? You want the foul? Great. Here!" And smashes the ball down as if to say "You're an idiot because the goal kick was better for your team in this position."

It was also annoying because our team typically relies on speed and skill to win, but we've learned to fight when we need to. I'd put it like this, we don't ever start the fight, but we'll finish it. They came out really aggressive so we pushed back and then they start yelling at the ref.

We had to keep our girls in control because a couple of them started yelling back at the other parents. We quickly got on them to keep their mouths closed, just kept calm, ignore the sidelines and just play the game.

Anyway, I was just really shocked at the level of abuse that ref put up with from the players on the field. Questioning her calls and authority left and right.

Sadly we tied 1-1. We were the better team but just couldn't convert the opportunities. Hurts because it really would have been nice to shut them up.

Side note: The game before had no linesman whatsoever. There was a run where one teams parents were screaming "Offside! Offside!" And the ref straight up told them. "I believe you, and you're probably right, but if it's less than 2-3 yards I can't always see that." She said it very respectfully and matter of factly, like "I can't do it all, so bear with me." The parents seem to accept her answer and I think respected how she handled it.

Maybe there is something wrong with me or I'm just not at the right age yet. But I read posts like this and wonder, "what the hell is wrong with these parents?"

Do they not ever sit back for a minute and take stock of the situation they're in? None of this matters. None of your kids are getting college scholarships out of this (ok, maybe a couple are but still) and certainly none of these kids will ever appear on a USWNT roster.

I guess I struggle to understand how people can be so adept at making something that is ultimately meant to be enjoyable a complete chore.

I think the same thing. Thankfully this team is an exception to the rule.

Though my daughter does play in the Dash Girls Academy, so a good percentage of these girls actually will have the opportunity to play in college, but regardless, have a little more class. I would even argue that is MORE reason for their girls to be better. I think some coaches and refs aren't going to put up with mouthy players.

I don't understand how people aren't more empathetic for how hard it is to ref. This was a 5:00 game and the refs had been doing multiple games. They showed up for these girls, so give them some respect. Sure it's all well and good to let them know if you thought a call was off, but geez! Be respectful.