Last time we played Iran in a WC was 1998. We lost and finished dead last out of the 32 teams.

Just sayin...

KCup17 said:

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Not sure why everyone is coming for Ggg after this performance. McKennie looked dreadful, DLT was awful for most of the game. In addition to that we gave the ball away countless times. Cannon should be staying home after that performance. Overall a very very poor effort shown today. Won't be a fun WC come November if we show up like this.

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He deserves a share of criticism, but so do the players. We came out really flatfooted and our organization/structure didn't help. We tried to build out of the back with too few players to handle the Japanese pressing. Poor passing and a lack of urgency to move the ball upfield let Japan keep us under pressure the whole first half. We adjusted shape and tactics a bit in the second half, but started getting carved up on the counter because there was too much space between our backline and midfield. Subs were a mixed bag with some good (Josh) and some very bad.

Dre_00 said:

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Last time we played Iran in a WC was 1998. We lost and finished dead last out of the 32 teams.

Just sayin...

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NOT NOW, DRE.

Was way too sloppy on the ball and players kept on waiting for the ball to get to them giving Japanese players chance to intercept and go the other way.

I don't think Vines is the solution to backing up Robinson. Reyna was completely isolated. How many touches did he actually get?

I agree that he deserves criticism but that game for me was a lack of effort from our midfield 3. When opposing teams press like Japan did, we need our midfielders to show and change the point of attack. All 3 of them were lazy in their movement and all too often gave the ball up and more than once i watch McKennie walk back after making an awful pass. Reyna, Aaronson and Turner were the only bright spots out of the starting XI.

The changing of the tactics in the 2nd half helped a lot but we got hit on the counter too often. Cannon just isnt good enough. And we were dreadful in connecting our defense to our forwards was awful all game.

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm not sure any manager with a very rigid tactical philosophy is ideal at the international level. If we hired Pep or Klopp, I would still expect it to be a disaster. You need a manager with a more universal style that can take what he has and put the players in the best situation to succeed.

Playing out the back is a recipe for disaster at the international level, especially with a bunch of defenders that don't do that every day for their club teams. At the club level, it can work because you've got a team that practices and executes the strategy on the field for 10 months of the year.

What a giant turd our boys just laid.

Why do my 2 primary teams have a system that is too complicated for the players to run?

What did I do to deserve this?

Or we?

I have a few thoughts, before I read through the thread to see what everyone else thought.
1.) We still dont have enough players doing work off the ball, continuously, to truly progress the ball from our backline to the attack. We will play 1, maybe 2 passes, and suddenly that next player has no options with the ball.
2.) about 30-35 minutes into the 1st half, Sam Vines pushed forward and Reyna came inside to give us a numbers advantage in the midfield. he started getting on the ball and being an option for the rest of the team, and we were getting into the attacking third
3.) Dest did not look very dangerous with the ball, which I can only imagine is due to rust from not playing a ton
4.) I think Jesus' opportunity on goal on the cross from Dest was not a mistake, or whatever it was Twellman said specifically. The ball was too high for him, and though he did make contact it was just barely. Now, you could say maybe if we had a forward closer to 6ft, or taller, that it is a much easier header but I think that is a different discussion than 'ferreira missed it'. I also think Dest could have sent it across crisper, it felt more like a "chip it into the middle and see what happens"
5.) While the field was poor, it didnt seem to impact Japan in possession like it did the US at the start, so im not down to use it as an excuse.
6.) Going back to the off the ball movement, we did not have anyone progressed enough to link up with jesus anytime the ball was played into him. I think our biggest weakness today was the shape and play of our central 3.
Whether that is a tactical thing, or a limitation in skillset, im not entirely sure.

I think a few people have said this before, and I know I have at least thought it before. We have progressed to the point as a nation where our players can play on elite teams with elite players, and they belong. But we dont have 1, let alone multiple players that are THE guy in those teams/systems. So when they all come back to play for the national team, we are just not quite able to play that style of soccer consistently.
We had plenty of moments where we looked good in the game attacking, but you would see Japans wingers cut-in off the defender and look dangerous to score. Ours, in this game, would be in the same spot and look pretty toothless.

For me, Reyna looked the most dangerous and we did not do a very good job of finding him in the first half hour.

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For me, Reyna looked the most dangerous and we did not do a very good job of finding him in the first half hour.

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Vines never looked to be progressive with his passing. He always passed laterally or back to the CB's. He doesn't appear to be able to beat his man off the dribble either.

akm91 said:

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For me, Reyna looked the most dangerous and we did not do a very good job of finding him in the first half hour.

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Vines never looked to be progressive with his passing. He always passed laterally or back to the CB's. He doesn't appear to be able to beat his man off the dribble either.

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That is the same opinion I share. Apparently he has looked good for his club side, so I imagine they must just ask him to progress forward on overlaps possibly?

Someone said it, kcup maybe, but it feels like the players in the game were just thinking too much about what to do next versus playing...and to me, thats a system problem.

That and I see a lot of others saw the same lack of off-ball movement, and that will be a problem no matter what system we play.
Im not going to be overly negative about this, but hopefully its a wakeup call for our young team.

I also don't personalyl see this carrying over to the group stage games, because from what I have read none of the 3 countries are known for pressing like Japan did.
And to play like they do takes a LOT of commitment and practice, so you generally cant just do it

I left this off my initial posts, but something just made me think of it.
Twellman made a great observation, which was that when Japan creates a turnover they are immediately making a progessive pass and flowing into attack.

We have gotten good at creating the turnover, but too often we look to slow it down and circulate the ball. That has to change. FC Dallas has had similar issues (playing a similar system) but as the year has gone on, they have gotten more buyin from the team to all flow forward once a turnover has been created, and every player knows when they got on that ball they need to be looking to attack. Its a mindset thing, and I think we play a little too cautiously in this game.

Also Mckennie was a turnover machine, and most of them were on attempts to play one touch. While he did make several very nice one touch passes, he had at least 3 atrocious ones that all resulted in goal scoring chances for Japan (and one was a goal)

KCup17 said:

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I think that GGG is so bogged down into who fits his system that he leaves people at home who are better than players he has brought into camp.

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No doubt… but Scally is in camp this time and was in June too.

We know what Cannon is. He's not going to have magically gotten better.

Leaving Scally out was excusable during WCQ because yeah, it might not be smart to bring in a guy who's inexperienced in the system.

But in June camp and right now? It's mind boggling. He's a starter on a good Bundesliga team. On paper, there's a decent chance he's better as an overall RB than even Dest. Give him minutes!!!

Side not, this is another example to me that Berhalter is not the answer going forward from the World Cup. He does not have the ability to make good tactical adjustments during games. Or really to prepare us well, IMO.
Plenty of teams and coaches are able to make in-game adjustments, and not just really on the halftime locker room to make them. It was clear that we needed to change something up about 15-20 minutes into the game, and we just kept making the same mistakes over and over.

This doesn't bode well

The U.S. is now 1W-3L-2D this year against teams that have qualified for November's World Cup.

So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

We have wins over Morocco and Costa Rica this year.

KCup17 said:

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So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

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I'll play it like Aggie football. I always hope the coach proves us wrong and succeeds.

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.) I think Jesus' opportunity on goal on the cross from Dest was not a mistake, or whatever it was Twellman said specifically. The ball was too high for him, and though he did make contact it was just barely. Now, you could say maybe if we had a forward closer to 6ft, or taller, that it is a much easier header but I think that is a different discussion than 'ferreira missed it'. I also think Dest could have sent it across crisper, it felt more like a "chip it into the middle and see what happens"

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Absolutely it wasn't a mistake. He got as high as he could.

A taller 9 scores that.

KCup17 said:

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So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

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I think the only way he stays on would depend on HOW we advance, if that makes sense.
If he is able to continue adapting and growing as a manager. The way we played this game, doesnt make me think he will. I suspect a portion of the fanbase is going to overdo the doom & gloom because of this game

Ken Scarborough said:

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Quote:

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.) I think Jesus' opportunity on goal on the cross from Dest was not a mistake, or whatever it was Twellman said specifically. The ball was too high for him, and though he did make contact it was just barely. Now, you could say maybe if we had a forward closer to 6ft, or taller, that it is a much easier header but I think that is a different discussion than 'ferreira missed it'. I also think Dest could have sent it across crisper, it felt more like a "chip it into the middle and see what happens"

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Absolutely it wasn't a mistake. He got as high as he could.

A taller 9 scores that.

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And it wasnt like he made some amazing run, or sneakily moved off the ball for the opportunity that maybe another striker couldnt.

To truly get the impact on the game from Jesus' style of forward, the midfield HAS to be better. Which they can be, and have shown in the past. Just not good enough today.

PatAg said:

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KCup17 said:

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So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

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I think the only way he stays on would depend on HOW we advance, if that makes sense.
If he is able to continue adapting and growing as a manager. The way we played this game, doesnt make me think he will. I suspect a portion of the fanbase is going to overdo the doom & gloom because of this game

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I'm not about firing him, and we've wasted 5 years on this mofo.

If we advance, he should keep his job, regardless of how we advance.

If we don't, he should be fired on the field and never allowed to speak to the team again. (Ok, that's a little dramatic.)

I probably wont be back on til later in the day, but I do think any criticism of Berhalter is valid.
I think our best hope is that he abandons the "play out of the back at all costs" mentality, and lets the team play more naturally. There aree times we can do that to settle the game down, of course, but its too rigid, slow, and cautious. I think it also causes our players to constantly second guess their decisions, as most of them dont play in this sytem day in and day out.

Ken Scarborough said:

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PatAg said:

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KCup17 said:

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So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

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I think the only way he stays on would depend on HOW we advance, if that makes sense.
If he is able to continue adapting and growing as a manager. The way we played this game, doesnt make me think he will. I suspect a portion of the fanbase is going to overdo the doom & gloom because of this game

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I'm not about firing him, and we've wasted 5 years on this mofo.

If we advance, he should keep his job, regardless of how we advance.

If we don't, he should be fired on the field and never allowed to speak to the team again. (Ok, that's a little dramatic.)

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That would be the worst decision you could make, and is generally not how international teams work.

Ken Scarborough said:

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PatAg said:

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KCup17 said:

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So here is the ultimate dilemma... Do we want a good showing at the WC and risk another cycle of underperforming with ggg at the helm? Or do we hope we don't make it out the group stage to force USSF's hand in making the change prior to the 2026 WC?

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I think the only way he stays on would depend on HOW we advance, if that makes sense.
If he is able to continue adapting and growing as a manager. The way we played this game, doesnt make me think he will. I suspect a portion of the fanbase is going to overdo the doom & gloom because of this game

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I'm not about firing him, and we've wasted 5 years on this mofo.

If we advance, he should keep his job, regardless of how we advance.

If we don't, he should be fired on the field and never allowed to speak to the team again. (Ok, that's a little dramatic.)

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Disagree, Klinsmann advanced and we shouldn't have kept him.

National team managers don't have long shelf-lives even when they do decently, so I'm not opposed to moving on to someone else after this WC even if progress out of group. (I don't really seeing us winning more than one knock-out game unless all our big stars start clicking all at once in Qatar.)

And really it shouldn't be a huge "set-back" to get a new national team manager... ideally they are flexible enough to play a system designed to the strengths present in the player pool.

KCup17 said:

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We have wins over Morocco and Costa Rica this year.

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Just Morocco. We lost to Costa Rica in March

I really like listening to former players talk about the team and games.
Very insightful.